WRC RIP
22 March 2009, 05:59 PM
#1
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WRC RIP
As some of you may be aware the rules for WRC in 2011 change the way know WRC cars for ever. Quote "The FIA World Motor Sport Council has confirmed that from 2011 all World Rally Cars will be based on a non-turbocharged Super 2000 vehicle."
No more turbocharged cars from 2011, Ford and Citreon you are welcome to it!!!
However they do go on to say "From 2013, it is proposed that the World Rally Car will continue to be Super 2000 based with a cost-effective 1.6 litre turbo engine. This is subject to review, based on the specification of the car produced by manufacturers for the mass market,”
WRC corsa I can't wait.......
(quotes taken from WRC.com)
Jho!
No more turbocharged cars from 2011, Ford and Citreon you are welcome to it!!!
However they do go on to say "From 2013, it is proposed that the World Rally Car will continue to be Super 2000 based with a cost-effective 1.6 litre turbo engine. This is subject to review, based on the specification of the car produced by manufacturers for the mass market,”
WRC corsa I can't wait.......
(quotes taken from WRC.com)
Jho!
o and some good crashes 
22 March 2009, 06:32 PM
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Non turbo charged cars running over 20k special stage sprints is BORING no matter how competitive it is.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
It used to be and should be the most exciting motorsport on earth.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
It used to be and should be the most exciting motorsport on earth.
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22 March 2009, 07:02 PM
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Non turbo charged cars running over 20k special stage sprints is BORING no matter how competitive it is.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
Group B was great I admit but it's not going to come back is it.
Chip
22 March 2009, 07:10 PM
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Granted we will never see group b again. But, the biggest problem with wrc today is how short the stages are. When the stages where longer drivers were able to make a mistake then drive, sometimes way too fast and make up the time lost. Colin Mcrae used to show this perfectly. Phil Mills commented on this at last years Rallyday when asked if he thought the sport had become boring.
22 March 2009, 08:21 PM
#12
Surely it's all about costs, that's why there's no manufacturers left in it. Bring the cost down and get more teams and drivers in 
With the credit crunch and the cost of running a team were lucky there's anybody left so i'm looking forward to the changes and when they ran the these cars with the wrc cars a few years back they did beat them from time to time 
With the credit crunch and the cost of running a team were lucky there's anybody left so i'm looking forward to the changes and when they ran the these cars with the wrc cars a few years back they did beat them from time to time
22 March 2009, 09:44 PM
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more sad news big bhp does not cost that much money tho many of the cars on here are 400 bhp + from a road car so why do they not make group N cars with that level of power ??? they need to much power so the best driver can show what he can make the car do
22 March 2009, 10:08 PM
#14
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WRC cars may well have been capped at 300, then 320bhp recently, but there was no cap on torque. When I visited Prodrive they quoted Petters cars sat in the prep room as having over 700Nm, and that makes for some awesome acceleration. As an example compare the BMW M5 V10 with 501bhp quoted as doing 30-70 in 3.7s. The 282bhp BMW 335D does it 0.4s quicker in 3.3s due to massive torque. Achieving that level of torque isn't cheap or as easy as getting big bhp. My mate has an 06STi running IRO 360bhp, but 560 lb/ft through massively expensive internal engine work (full Cosworth bottom end) and that car is awesome, maximising the potential of every gear from 2k revs to the redline, meaning you don't need to change gear every 1.08s like most STi's I've driven, losing you both time and momentum. BHP will get you off the line quick, but torque will propel you in-gear ferociously and across the rev-range, making a much more driveable and faster car.
Last edited by corradoboy; 22 March 2009 at 10:11 PM.
22 March 2009, 10:12 PM
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The writing was on the wall, just take a look at last years rally GB programme, just full of environmental bull****. I for one won't be going to any WRC event in the forseable future.
This governments already persecuted me just because i drive a turbo charged road car using environmental issues as an excuse.
They will be using invalid carridges next and calling it WRC
This governments already persecuted me just because i drive a turbo charged road car using environmental issues as an excuse.
They will be using invalid carridges next and calling it WRC
22 March 2009, 11:14 PM
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WRC cars may well have been capped at 300, then 320bhp recently, but there was no cap on torque. When I visited Prodrive they quoted Petters cars sat in the prep room as having over 700Nm, and that makes for some awesome acceleration. As an example compare the BMW M5 V10 with 501bhp quoted as doing 30-70 in 3.7s. The 282bhp BMW 335D does it 0.4s quicker in 3.3s due to massive torque. Achieving that level of torque isn't cheap or as easy as getting big bhp. My mate has an 06STi running IRO 360bhp, but 560 lb/ft through massively expensive internal engine work (full Cosworth bottom end) and that car is awesome, maximising the potential of every gear from 2k revs to the redline, meaning you don't need to change gear every 1.08s like most STi's I've driven, losing you both time and momentum. BHP will get you off the line quick, but torque will propel you in-gear ferociously and across the rev-range, making a much more driveable and faster car.
22 March 2009, 11:45 PM
#19
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I admit I can't remember the exact figures, but it was slightly less BHP than Duncan's, but MUCH more torque. The flexibility it gave when accelerating compared to Dunx's was superb. Instead of lag, lag, lag, WHAM! change gear, it was foot down and FOOOOOO MEEEEEE ! all the way from low down to the very top before another gear. Definitely a better tuning direction for a road car, and probably for track too. It would be how I'd tune if I were to go down that road again, after sorting the usual chassis and suspension woes out of the Scoob.
22 March 2009, 11:48 PM
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I admit I can't remember the exact figures, but it was slightly less BHP than Duncan's, but MUCH more torque. The flexibility it gave when accelerating compared to Dunx's was superb. Instead of lag, lag, lag, WHAM! change gear, it was foot down and FOOOOOO MEEEEEE ! all the way from low down to the very top before another gear. Definitely a better tuning direction for a road car, and probably for track too. It would be how I'd tune if I were to go down that road again, after sorting the usual chassis and suspension woes out of the Scoob.
But yeah, in an ideal world I'd like the punch around 3k revs all the way upto the redline. Suppose for that you would need a fast spooling turbo like the VF34 and a nice torquey 2.33-2.5 bottom end
I'd be happy in a car with a turbo currently, mind.
22 March 2009, 11:56 PM
#21
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Dave was running the OE turbo IIRC, and it pulled nicely from 2k right to the redline. Not sure if he increased the bore, just massive compression with everything to cope. Need to pick his brains some more 
23 March 2009, 12:05 AM
#23
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Yeah, but that's like saying a modern Vauxhaul Corsa would be quicker point to point than a Ferrari 246GT on a challenging mountain road due to advances in chassis design, suspension, brakes etc. The Ferrari still gives you a woody, whereas the Corsa is just wooden. I stood in the forests as a boy as the fire-spitting dragons of Group B tore throughout the night, and can't see for the life of me how the cars suggested could come anywhere near as exciting to watch.
23 March 2009, 12:26 AM
#25
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Non turbo charged cars running over 20k special stage sprints is BORING no matter how competitive it is.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
It used to be and should be the most exciting motorsport on earth.
Ralling allways was exciting mad loud fast cars driving at crazy speeds on roads us meer mortals would not drive at 30mph.
Bring back propper length stages, and real rally cars, group b rally cars.
It used to be and should be the most exciting motorsport on earth.
23 March 2009, 10:24 AM
#27
As some of you may be aware the rules for WRC in 2011 change the way know WRC cars for ever. Quote "The FIA World Motor Sport Council has confirmed that from 2011 all World Rally Cars will be based on a non-turbocharged Super 2000 vehicle."
No more turbocharged cars from 2011, Ford and Citreon you are welcome to it!!!
However they do go on to say "From 2013, it is proposed that the World Rally Car will continue to be Super 2000 based with a cost-effective 1.6 litre turbo engine. This is subject to review, based on the specification of the car produced by manufacturers for the mass market,”
WRC corsa I can't wait.......
(quotes taken from WRC.com)
Jho!
No more turbocharged cars from 2011, Ford and Citreon you are welcome to it!!!
However they do go on to say "From 2013, it is proposed that the World Rally Car will continue to be Super 2000 based with a cost-effective 1.6 litre turbo engine. This is subject to review, based on the specification of the car produced by manufacturers for the mass market,”
WRC corsa I can't wait.......
(quotes taken from WRC.com)
Jho!
23 March 2009, 11:18 AM
#29
Ford & Citreon Cup
23 March 2009, 11:34 AM
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TBH we all want to see the flame spittin', 500BHP+ crowd killing monsters of the 80's, but I doubt a similiar limited homologation class will ever appear as companies are reluctant to spend that much money on making a competitive car. The way the WRC is going will allow more companies a chance to get into the sport, which may make it better. Who knows? Time will tell.