Funkii Munkii

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | McRae flying licence had expired

No conclusive evidence has been found, although the attitude of the Porcelli family, although totally understandable, I would probably be looking for someone to blame if it were my son, is a little hard.

As Jimmy says this was a terrible accident and they want to draw a line under it.

LUCKO

iTrader: (3)

a truly tragic event

r.i.p

bugeyeandy

Such a waste, helicopters demand a lot of respect and aren't forgiving when things go wrong (human or mechanical). We'll never know the cause just that we lost a motorsport idol and IMO the most talent driver britain has seen.

Nurse Gladys

No conclusive evidence of a malfunction of the helicopter. As the report states, an incident that could so easily have been avoided.

I believe the attitude of the Porcellis,a family who lost their five year old son, is understandable - it wolud be no different to driving a car unlicenced and crashing it killing your passengers.

I would imagine the release of this report is the reason the cheque presentation has been postponed, as no doubt Lanark will once again be crawling with press.

A sad but avoidable loss. One risk too many......................

GazTheHat

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

The actual report is here for anyone who wants to read it for themselves rather than get it 2nd hand from the media:

Air Accidents Investigation: Eurocopter AS350B2 Squirrel, G-CBHL

Very very sad

Paul3446

Agreed, very sad.

Whichever way you read it Colin McRae doesn't come out of it looking very good.

p1doc

agreed out of date licence ?showing off at low altitude-i understand the porcelli's response-how would you feel if your son was killed ??
martin

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Just so tragic, I still find it hard to beleive that Colin would have put his own son nevermind close friends at risk by not having the correct license
Cheers
Colin

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't state in the report that the expired licence was a factor in the crash.

GazTheHat

and how many people have been caught out with their driving license expiring recently without knowing?

billythekid

Indeed. I think we can set the paperwork issue to one side as thats really another matter and it did not effect his ability to fly. Its also clear the a/c was being looked after correctly and that he had reasonable experience on that type.

That said, from reading all of the report this morning, its fairly clear he was pushing the a/c beyond routine (and not for the first time) and basically the upshot is he flew the a/c into a tree at speed.

From the report it looked to me like he was going to pop over the top of the hill over his house - but struck the tree with the main rotor which put them straight in. A very sad incident.

wrxsti280

iTrader: (6)

at the end of the day he was showing off, and unfortunetly, he wasnt very good at it in his car and evidently also in a helicopter, like has been said, a risk to far and for what???? i feel gutted for the familie's involved but more so for the innocent parties that were taken in tow that day who probably thought like so many that he was an icon, nothing can go wrong!!!! how wrong could they have been.

ross_wrx

Regardless of fault this was still a tragic accident.

R.I.P.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Agree whole heartedly!!!!!!!!

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Of more import than the out of date (not renewed) licence is that he had also significantly over-run his rating on the type.

Looks like pilot error, a manouver which he had probably carried out before went wrong, possibly due to heavier payload and also due to the wind pushing him wide in the turn.

Note the video evidence shows that he was not maintaining the required minimum seperation from other objects during the previous flight.

Given all the above I can understand why the Porcellis family are somewhat upset.

Simon

noobyscooby

Colin McRae was a risk taker: sometimes he won and sometimes he crashed...spectacularly! And we enjoyed his driving because of this.

However, this kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable when flying a plane and as a pilot he has been found wanting.

Unsurprisingly, the families of others who died will now be considering legal action and, since Colin had no licence and was therefore possibly uninsured, any action may be against Colin's estate so even in death he might have failed his family.

Colin McRae was like an uncut diamond, brilliant in parts but flawed in others.

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

Exactly, No matter which way you look at it he shouldn't have been flying the helicopter and thats the only way the Porcellis will see it, the same as the majority of us would. Colin (as much as i admire the great man) was a risk taker and this was a risk too much.

Meallbhan

iTrader: (3)

No, it doesnt. But to make sure you have the abilities to fly the type rating for which you hold you have to undergo tests (LPC/OPC) to make sure you are competent to cope with the machine you are flying in an emergency. He hadn't dont this so was probably a little rusty on the proceedure.

Nearly everyday I fly in the same machine that Colin had, a Squirel AS350. For some reason the papers still call it a twin, which it wasn't. The spooky thing is, that it was in at the work a week before he crashed it. A few weeks after the unfortunate event I was up in a machine and the pilot showed me what would have happened to Colin's machine, it wasn't nice. We were at 1500ft though. He would have a mere seconds to react and at his altitude he had no chance.

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

The report stated that when Colin did take the LPC tests, the instructors commented that he seemed a very capable pilot. While he didn't seem to follow CAA rules particularly well, he did appear to fly his helicopter quite regularly.

However, it seems a shame that a little bit of showing off was probably the prime cause of the crash. Whether he was caught out by the weight or the tail wind, he was too low and too fast to correct the helicopter when it deviated from its intended path. All the more unfortunate that he took 3 other lives with him.....

cw42

iTrader: (1)

Noobyscooby, that is very well put, and I whole heartedly agree with the above. A very sad situation. RIP Colin. I had respect for you as a driver in a wrc car strapped in and with all yours and your co-drivers safety aids in case of a crash, but no respect for you when you showboat in your coptor with out of date paperwork and lack of skill/judgement in a situation of your own doing. To include children and a good family friend, that's just downright indefensible.

Funkii Munkii

Unless I read the report incorrectly there is also no proof he was showing off unless you take the sentance "he was undertaking a demanding manouvre" as such
"No conclusive evidence" also stands out.

I wasn't defending McRae, and as stated I would feel the same as the porcelli's if it had been my son, I would have said the same as them even if there was no evidence, no one like to bury a child.

Nurse Gladys

[quote=Funkii Munkii;8506341]Unless I read the report incorrectly there is also no proof he was showing off unless you take the sentance "he was undertaking a demanding manouvre" as such
"No conclusive evidence" also stands out.


The full report does make very interesting reading.

Eurocopter AS350B2 Squirrel, G-CBHL 02-09.pdf (2,201.55 kb)

A couple of bits in particular stand out;

'Synopsis
The helicopter crashed in a wooded valley while manoeuvring at high speed and low height. It was intact prior to impact, and the available evidence indicated that the engine was delivering power. The cause of the accident was not positively determined. Although no technical reason was found to explain the accident, a technical fault could not be ruled out entirely. However, it is more likely that the pilot attempted a turning manoeuvre at low height, during which the helicopter deviated from his intended flight path. '

Also, the eye witness reports state the flight path was unusual, even alarming and the helicopter was travelling at unusually high speed.

The conclusion states

'The descent into the Mouse Water Valley appears to have been a deliberate manoeuvre. Considering the video evidence, the pilot’s intention was probably to fly a hard, right turn at low height within the valley, possibly leading to a further, final zoom climb before landing at the helipad. A high-speed, low-level turning manoeuvre in the heavily wooded valley was a demanding one, which would have subjected the helicopter and its occupants to an increased risk. The circumstances of the accident, which included a strong tailwind, suggest that the pilot needed to fly an unexpectedly high performance manoeuvre which led to, or contributed to, the flight path deviation. This deviation may have been due to a servo transparency encounter, spatial disorientation, misjudgement or some other factor or combination of factors.'

On a lighter note the video evidence picks up the passengers enjoyment of the flight - a small comfort for those families.

We all know Colin liked to take risks - some paid off, some didn't! We've all taken risks before, but what I find extremely hard to understand is why take such risks when children are involved - as a parent I would NEVER be able to forgive.

Funkii Munkii

Cant argue with that, pee's me off that the beed choose not to reproduce that and go with the license issue as their headline.

tbtstt

The fact that the aircraft was under 500 feet could give strength to the "showing off" argument (UK Air Regulations prohibit flying below 500 feet - McRae was below that for most of the flight). The report also states (and the video stills show) he was pushing the aircraft harder than he needed to.

I personally don't believe that the lack of license makes any difference here. It's sad however, that this is how the media are likely to portray him now though, it equally saddens me that the aviation industry are likely to make an example of him, when I don't think an extra bit of paperwork would have made any difference at all.

Having read the report yesterday I think the AAIB have chosen their words very carefully so as to cause the minimum upset on what is likely to be a widely read accident report.

If you read if for yourself - particularly the details of the crash - I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions on what happened though.

Irrespective, the loss of Colin and those on board is as sad now as it was when the news first broke. Whatever circumstances led to his passing, the world of rallying and motorsport in general is a much duller place without him.

noobyscooby

When I wrote my response to the original post, I thought I might attract a lot of adverse criticism given that Colin was - and still is - much loved and admired and that it is very hard to criticise and even harder to accept criticism of such an outgoing hero to so many, many people.

I think it is to the credit of everyone on this site who has read and contributed to this thread that we have all taken a measured view, saddened by not just Colin's loss, but by the loss of everyone who perished in what was intended to be a bit of fun and, if it had come off, those passengers would have excitedly told the story of that flight for many years to come.

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

100% agree

SCOsazOBY

We all take risks in our life just for a few moments of enjoyment and happiness and those risks create memories and storys that can be told to others, its only when these risks go wrong that we start to think of the consequences.

Even if he had a licence it wouldnt of avoided the sad circumstances of this accident.