GlesgaKiss

As the title. I would like to understand what exactly is involved in mapping.

Does anybody know of any websites they could link me to that would give me some info? Also courses etc?


Thanks

Alan

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

How much, or little do you already know?

How much, or little, do you want to know?

GlesgaKiss

Not much!

Would just like to get an understanding of how things are done for now. I'm certainly not expecting it to be simple, or easy.

I was actually just reading through the Nurburgring thread on Passionford, and saw Chip's posts, which made me think about it.

Is there some where I can start with the basics? Or is it a case of needing to be taught.

dee052

iTrader: (1)

Dave Walker and Jeff Hartman books are an interesting read and it might be worth looking at the EFI101 course.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I'm sure I can help in some way, but first of all a couple of questions for you:

1) Do you understand engine management and how it works? What each sensor actually does and what the ECU does with the information it provides?

2) Do you understand the basic concepts required to perform the mapping, IE a working knowledge of spark advance, EGT and AFR?

3) Do you understand an engines needs? How much fuel it needs, when it needs it, why it needs it? Same for spark?

If you answer the above honestly, we can look at what information you as an individual would require in order to start to understand the mapping aspect, as actual mapping itself is easy, but only if you understand the above three topics, so no point us jumping straight into a discussion on thermal management if you don't understand what an AFM or K-Type thermocouple actually is.

I probably have articles to help on all of the above topics and can release them here if required.

GlesgaKiss

Thanks Stu.

Answers the above:

1) No

2) No

3) Understand how an engine works, but basic knowledge.

Information on any of the above would be great. I'm off work at the moment so have plenty of time to read things through and get a better understanding.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Oo er.

I guess you need to start on on basic fuel injection 101 and build up some knowledge, I have a few pointers which might help get you going:

Try to googling up Bosch L-Jetronic (Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection) or Lucas 8CU

These are the basic fundamental systems that modern systems derived from (both MAF based).

The difference now is there are more sensors and software based microprocessor control (i.e programmable instead of hard wired in a ROM chip). The biggest difference is injection is now often sequential timed injection (or banked sequential) as opposed to multipoint simultaneous (except for start-up, high load and stall conditions) - basically each injector opens once for each cylinder cycle; older systems opened twice - to all intents, the engine isn't that fussy about how fuel is injected, so long as it gets enough and not too much.

Also ignition control has now been incorperated. Maybe look at ignition control after you fathomed out the fueling control. Google "EDIS" for a modern(ish) distributor-less system that's not too hard to understand.


As for programming, erm. Maybe worth a nosey round megasquirt's website (Do it yourself EFi), which is a wealth of info, if a little too overwhelming: MegaManual Index

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Hi Alan, Sorry for the delay in replying, bit busy today but hopefully we can get you on the right track. Further to Ali-B's good advice, I would offer this:

You need to understand how management works, because until you do you wont understand how the various maps are referenced or why things do what they do. (Coolant based enrichment maps for example)

In order to help you understand management a little better, I can offer some articles I wrote, as follows:

Understanding Engine Management systems: Part 1.
This part covers the 2 basic types of systems and gives an explanation of what each sensor does and why its needed.

Understanding Engine Management systems: Part 2.
This part covers the ecu its elf and its basic fnctions and hardware it controls directly. (Injectors, coils, etc)

Understanding Engine Management systems: Part 3.
This part covers the contents of the ecu calibration. The maps. What they do and why.



Now, to progress a tad further, you could do with understanding AFR, EGT and Spark advance. I can only help with two of those as my AFR article has not yet been published, but the Spark and EGT have, so grab those here:

Spark Advance.
(Everything you need to know about Spark advance really. What it is, why we need it, why we need to adjust it.)

Exhaust Gas Temperature.
(Everything you need to know about EGT i guess. What it is, why we need to control it.)

Its worth understanding a bit about fuel pressure too as if teh fuel pressure is wrong your whol map is consigned to teh bin, so read al about that here:

Fuel Pressure.(Everything you need to know about it.)




Finally, you can move onto mapping.

Mapping. Part 1.
(This covers the basic question, what is it? Whats teh difference between a chip, custom map, live map etc?)

Mapping Part 2.
(This covers the equipment a mapper will normally use, what its for and how it works.)

Mapping. Part 3.
(Here we discuss why it takes so long to do some systems and touches on the maps themselves)

Mapping. Part 4.
(Probably the one your interested in most, but dont read it until you have read the rest.)

Hope some of this information is of some use to you.

Underworld

great stuff..

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Thanks.

Pavlo

Stu is an undercover mapper, which you might not realise unless you've been on passionford for some years.

Stu, how many hours would you estimate you've spent learning/developing/researching on mapping?

GlesgaKiss

Jeez.

Very Very helpful, and will make interesting reading and give me something to occupy my mind for a while.

Thanks very much. Would love to be able to tamper with my own cars at some point in the future.

How the hell do you find time to do everything you do? I mean, presumably you run Motorsport Developments, Passionford site, this site, and who knows what else?


Alan

GlesgaKiss

This could actually go into the Technical Archive section Stu? Would be helpful to a lot of people with the same interest. What do you think?

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I take it you've been trawling through the RomRaider/OpenECU forums, go through the logs, read the posts, read some books. I spent 4+ months doing that before I attempted to go near a car. Even then it was small baby steps, don't think you ever stop learning.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Hours? hard to say, ive had my hand in some form of mapping for, probably 4hrs a day, 6 days a week, for 15 years. Near on 19,000 but i guess that doesnt count the time spent decrypting maps or reading new technical info on them or the tools we use, so add another few hours a week, say 2hrs a week to be on the safe side, over 20,000 hrs. God, that makes me feel old. LOL

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

There's a clue to what else in this topic. I write freelance for magazines. lol

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Would be nice i think yes, but lets keep the discussion going and get more info in here, or maybe even start a technical discussion topic or something. I am finding that technical topics don't last long on this forum, a stark contrast to PassionFord. I wonder why that is?

Stealth

iTrader: (4)

Cheers Stu, this is amazing stuff and it's going to help a lot of people like Alan and myself who want to get a little more hardcore with thier cars.

Much appreciated fella

GC8

More baseball caps...

Stealth

iTrader: (4)

People are scared to tinker with them, if they go wrong they are harder to fix than an Escort and generally cost more so people feel safer taking them to a garage for EVerything... Possibly :S

GlesgaKiss

There are more cheque book tuners on here. I think the Cosworth/RS scene has always been more 'hands on'. Plus, in my experience of Cosworths, there is more of a need to get hands on: my Uncle has had many, and although fantastic cars to drive, they are not the most reliable.

It's very interesting looking through the resto threads on PassionFord.

I will try most things now as they come up, because I realised a while ago that if you're not daft, you can do most things if you just take the time to learn.

Still, I've not had to do much so far - I'm only 21 and don't have any mechanical experience or anything like that behind me. I serviced the Scooby and fitted supporting mods ready for mapping etc. Not afraid to try things, even if I do bugger them up the first time.

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

jeez, cheers for those links Stu, bit of interesting reading there

Underworld

exhaust gas temp link doesnt seem to work over here...

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, you could be right with those suggestions guys, not sure though as there are a lot of people involved in technical discussion with some very high quality £20K+ cars... i guess its just a different "scene" with different common practices and its done differently in the scoob scene. As one fella says, the resto and project section of PF is buzzing at al times...

EGT link fixed, apologies.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

BTTT in case anyoine else finds it of interest.

subaruturbo_18

I've just been lurking and stumbled accross this thread. great find. Cheers Stu

serega

was looking for this information for some time now, cheers stu!

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Fantastic Stu thanks
I have been thinking of getting the equipment so I can monitor what’s going on then eventually tweak my map a little once I understand what I am looking at so this will make good reading

Pavlo

So there you go kids, set aside about 19,000 hours and you'll be well on your way! You will very soon realise if you have the knack or not, as Stu has said above, understanding the engine itself and a basic appreciation of thermodynamics (in broad terms mostly, no equations required) will help immensely.

millzy555

iTrader: (2)

Better alocate some time of work to study this then. Wonder how they will feel about me asking for 19,000 hours off?