I'm not sure things add up ..
25 January 2001, 10:26 AM
#1
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All the reports I’ve read so far (I lurk a lot) about the new MY01 suggest that it’s handling, grip etc are better than the MY00 that it replaced, although it lacks the outright punch and raw factor of it’s predecessor.
Along a country road the MY01, it is suggested, would basically go from point A to point B quicker than the MY00.
I had a look at the figures quoted in Evo (bored at work) and did a few comparisons .. I would think that along country lanes speeds from 60-100 are commonly used. Look at the table below and see where the new MY01 lies compared to others and the MY00 !!
0-60 0-100 60-100
P1 4.9 13.3 8.4
Evo VI 4.8 13.5 8.7
UK Turbo 5.4 14.6 9.2
Boxster 6.5 16.9 10.4
TT 225 6.1 16.7 10.5
Accord Type-R 6.7 17.8 11.1
Clio 172 6.6 18.2 11.6
Integra Type-R 6.2 17.9 11.7
S3 6.2 18.2 12.0
MY01 WRX 6.0 18.3 12.3
GTI-6 7.4 20.1 12.9
1.8T Sport A3 7.6 21.7 14.1
Does that mean that the 3.1 second difference between 60-100 of the MY01 and MY00 is offset by the MY01 carrying more speed through corners and it's ability to brake later and be more stable throughout?
I know the MY01 is a bit of a lardy boy compared to the MY00 but 3.1 seconds difference ..
I’m not sure all these things add up ??
What do you think ??
It suggests to me that the MY01 once run in isn’t going to be a slow as you think?
Any comments or have I just typed this table in for nothing
Doofus.
P.S. Yes I know straight line acceleration isn’t the be-all and end-all when it comes to quick cars.
Along a country road the MY01, it is suggested, would basically go from point A to point B quicker than the MY00.
I had a look at the figures quoted in Evo (bored at work) and did a few comparisons .. I would think that along country lanes speeds from 60-100 are commonly used. Look at the table below and see where the new MY01 lies compared to others and the MY00 !!
0-60 0-100 60-100
P1 4.9 13.3 8.4
Evo VI 4.8 13.5 8.7
UK Turbo 5.4 14.6 9.2
Boxster 6.5 16.9 10.4
TT 225 6.1 16.7 10.5
Accord Type-R 6.7 17.8 11.1
Clio 172 6.6 18.2 11.6
Integra Type-R 6.2 17.9 11.7
S3 6.2 18.2 12.0
MY01 WRX 6.0 18.3 12.3
GTI-6 7.4 20.1 12.9
1.8T Sport A3 7.6 21.7 14.1
Does that mean that the 3.1 second difference between 60-100 of the MY01 and MY00 is offset by the MY01 carrying more speed through corners and it's ability to brake later and be more stable throughout?
I know the MY01 is a bit of a lardy boy compared to the MY00 but 3.1 seconds difference ..
I’m not sure all these things add up ??
What do you think ??
It suggests to me that the MY01 once run in isn’t going to be a slow as you think?
Any comments or have I just typed this table in for nothing
Doofus.
P.S. Yes I know straight line acceleration isn’t the be-all and end-all when it comes to quick cars.
25 January 2001, 10:40 AM
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Very early on when figures were announced, somebody commented that it is common knowledge (certainly amongst owners) that the MY00 published figures are "suspect". That being the case, the manufacturer would be at liberty to publish "better" specs for the MY01 safe in the knowledge they were about as reliable as the last lot.
Do you see the pattern here?
Do you see the pattern here?
25 January 2001, 10:47 AM
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Cool, finally an Impreza Turbo I can beat!! 
I think the operative word here is "suggested".
So many factors would affect the outcome on a country road, and I dont believe they could drive each car along the same road individually and come out with an acurate assesment of which is quicker, unless they did official timing.
It must be a few seconds difference, the "real" Scoob has a big performance advantage, and I dont believe its handling can be so compromised when compared to the new one, that it would lose along a typical country road.
Thats just my opinion, so feel free to belittle and mock it
I think the operative word here is "suggested".
So many factors would affect the outcome on a country road, and I dont believe they could drive each car along the same road individually and come out with an acurate assesment of which is quicker, unless they did official timing.
It must be a few seconds difference, the "real" Scoob has a big performance advantage, and I dont believe its handling can be so compromised when compared to the new one, that it would lose along a typical country road.
Thats just my opinion, so feel free to belittle and mock it
25 January 2001, 10:54 AM
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Doofus,
obviously you dont mean UK country roads (not between 60-100) tut tut
the 0-100 and 60-100 figures for the my01 are the ones that worry me, it does seem particularly slow.
Some things could explain it, maybe the gear ratios are not set for out and out acceleration, but for a more usable range of speeds in each gear. Possibly designed for lower revving due to the move to appeal more to mass market? (you get slated for revving high at 70-75 in this market).
Also once you start to head towards 100 surely power to weight ratio is going to have more and more of an effect (if you can rule out gearing), which could explain why the hot hatches are so similar in performance, as they dont have the burden of the 4wd system sapping power.
The last one to consider that springs to mind is which gear did the 100 come up in? In most I would guess it was 3rd (just), but some may have been 4th? I know that a car I had was faster than my friends, to 70, but 0-60 his was faster. Why? Because I had to change to 3rd just before 60, where as he could go just past 60. Not a lot in it, but I would fall about 1-2 car lengths behind at about 60, but had made up and gone past by 70 due to him changing gear.
robski
obviously you dont mean UK country roads (not between 60-100) tut tut
the 0-100 and 60-100 figures for the my01 are the ones that worry me, it does seem particularly slow.
Some things could explain it, maybe the gear ratios are not set for out and out acceleration, but for a more usable range of speeds in each gear. Possibly designed for lower revving due to the move to appeal more to mass market? (you get slated for revving high at 70-75 in this market).
Also once you start to head towards 100 surely power to weight ratio is going to have more and more of an effect (if you can rule out gearing), which could explain why the hot hatches are so similar in performance, as they dont have the burden of the 4wd system sapping power.
The last one to consider that springs to mind is which gear did the 100 come up in? In most I would guess it was 3rd (just), but some may have been 4th? I know that a car I had was faster than my friends, to 70, but 0-60 his was faster. Why? Because I had to change to 3rd just before 60, where as he could go just past 60. Not a lot in it, but I would fall about 1-2 car lengths behind at about 60, but had made up and gone past by 70 due to him changing gear.
robski
25 January 2001, 11:00 AM
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One of the reviews I saw said a MY01 would be slower across country than an S3, which ties in with your 60-100 figures.
Having never driven a MY01 I don't really know that it can't carry lots more speed through corners, but it would seem very unlikely to me that it would be able to see which way an older Scooby has gone (if both were driven by the same person (a tad difficult I know)).
There was not that much difference in speed between my MY00 and my old Saxo VTR through a dry corner on the road, so for the MY01 to be that much quicker it must be a giant leap forward
Having never driven a MY01 I don't really know that it can't carry lots more speed through corners, but it would seem very unlikely to me that it would be able to see which way an older Scooby has gone (if both were driven by the same person (a tad difficult I know)).
There was not that much difference in speed between my MY00 and my old Saxo VTR through a dry corner on the road, so for the MY01 to be that much quicker it must be a giant leap forward
25 January 2001, 11:20 AM
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BarryK .. yep, I know that maufacturers don't always quote 'real' figures .. that's why I used the Evo guide as I assumed they had actually tested each car independant of the manufacturers claims .. maybe they don't?
Robski, oooops yes not UK roads .. didn't spot that one.
Does anybody know if the gear ratios had changed that much ?? I would have thought that they would have remained approximately the same, although someone is bound to know better then me ..
It just seemed odd to me that Evo+Pete Croney etc etc on this board said that the MY01 is quicker cross country than the MY00 .. 3 seconds difference seemed a lot to make up by minor improvements in cornering and braking ... ?
I'll bet the MY01's once loosened up won't be as slow as figures suggest ??
Doofus.
I stand to be corrected though
Robski, oooops yes not UK roads
.. didn't spot that one.Does anybody know if the gear ratios had changed that much ?? I would have thought that they would have remained approximately the same, although someone is bound to know better then me ..
It just seemed odd to me that Evo+Pete Croney etc etc on this board said that the MY01 is quicker cross country than the MY00 .. 3 seconds difference seemed a lot to make up by minor improvements in cornering and braking ... ?
I'll bet the MY01's once loosened up won't be as slow as figures suggest ??
Doofus.
I stand to be corrected though
25 January 2001, 11:21 AM
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EVO November or Decemeber did a back to back test of the MY00 vs MY01. They said that the MY01 had trouble keeping up with (just) the MY00 on A & B roads due to the MY00's slightly better acceleration and the fact the the steering on the MY01 is a little vauge/lack of feedback.
It sounds like the MY01 is harder to drive on the limit, effectively making it slower in the "real world" twisty (fun) roads.
Matt.
It sounds like the MY01 is harder to drive on the limit, effectively making it slower in the "real world" twisty (fun) roads.
Matt.
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25 January 2001, 02:30 PM
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But we're all missing the point - it's got a nicer interior and a more comfortable ride. It might even one day become known as a reps car.... Only joking - they haven't really improved the fuel economy (a blessing in disguise?)
Anyway, even if it is a bit slower in a straight line I think the general opinion is that it handles better, riding the bumps etc more effectivley round bends. With a few performance mods it will probably be a better drivers car than the old model and unless we shun Impreza ownership in a few years lots of us will have one (well, if someone brings out a good 'headlight modification kit'). Then we'll probably be pointing out all the pluses and slagging off the older model for it's lack of quality or rigidity or something etc. Basically the new model is a better car (in nearly every way), but our overall visions get clouded by those looks....
Anyway, even if it is a bit slower in a straight line I think the general opinion is that it handles better, riding the bumps etc more effectivley round bends. With a few performance mods it will probably be a better drivers car than the old model and unless we shun Impreza ownership in a few years lots of us will have one (well, if someone brings out a good 'headlight modification kit'). Then we'll probably be pointing out all the pluses and slagging off the older model for it's lack of quality or rigidity or something etc. Basically the new model is a better car (in nearly every way), but our overall visions get clouded by those looks....
25 January 2001, 02:49 PM
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I thought we were supposed to be comparing like with like, a std old model against a std new model?
That removes any remarks like 'with a couple of performance mods' from the equation.
I seem to be having problems with the handles better point of view as well, the old model stuck to the road quiet well, but was hardly what could be called informative, the new model, has even lighter steering with even less feedback (according to what I have read), so does the fact you can go round bumpy corners even quicker mean it handles better? I thought handling involved more than that, would you say a train handled well, it can go round corners very fast, yet I would say No.
Quality of interior really does not bother me, as long as it does not squeek and rattle, there are heater vents, and a stereo can be fitted I am happy.
I am still waiting for someone to release something I would be happy with as my next car (that I can get close to being able to afford). The new Sccoby in std form is too slow in a straight line (I regularly visit the north of Scotland where overtaking is a very regular occurrence, and the old model seems sluggish) and now too big, IMHO, the old model was as big a car as I would ideally like. The Evo 7 is bigger again, so is removed, the S3 in std form has less performance than the old scooby, and steering is akin to the new model. The Elise has a lack of room for the golf clubs, just as well I am not looking for a new car really
That removes any remarks like 'with a couple of performance mods' from the equation.
I seem to be having problems with the handles better point of view as well, the old model stuck to the road quiet well, but was hardly what could be called informative, the new model, has even lighter steering with even less feedback (according to what I have read), so does the fact you can go round bumpy corners even quicker mean it handles better? I thought handling involved more than that, would you say a train handled well, it can go round corners very fast, yet I would say No.
Quality of interior really does not bother me, as long as it does not squeek and rattle, there are heater vents, and a stereo can be fitted I am happy.
I am still waiting for someone to release something I would be happy with as my next car (that I can get close to being able to afford). The new Sccoby in std form is too slow in a straight line (I regularly visit the north of Scotland where overtaking is a very regular occurrence, and the old model seems sluggish) and now too big, IMHO, the old model was as big a car as I would ideally like. The Evo 7 is bigger again, so is removed, the S3 in std form has less performance than the old scooby, and steering is akin to the new model. The Elise has a lack of room for the golf clubs, just as well I am not looking for a new car really
25 January 2001, 03:33 PM
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Robertio,
nail head and hammer have come into contact
I hate the, well just a couple of mods mentality. Its fine if your happy to either accept the fact that its going to be harder to insure, or your happy not to declare to your ins co.
I want a car that I dont have to mod to make it look as it should. Otherwise I would buy a ford LOL
robski
nail head and hammer have come into contact
I hate the, well just a couple of mods mentality. Its fine if your happy to either accept the fact that its going to be harder to insure, or your happy not to declare to your ins co.
I want a car that I dont have to mod to make it look as it should. Otherwise I would buy a ford LOL
robski
25 January 2001, 03:44 PM
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Agree with Robertio 100%
Next car will be smaller, lighter and faster than my current car. Not bigger, heavier and slower.
I'll have to compromise though as there isn't a car which fits these requirements (And stays in budget and has 4 doors etc)
Next car will be smaller, lighter and faster than my current car. Not bigger, heavier and slower.
I'll have to compromise though as there isn't a car which fits these requirements (And stays in budget and has 4 doors etc)
25 January 2001, 04:06 PM
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Yeah, ok. I see your point about the mods mentality, but what's the point moaning about it being slower in a straight line when a simple air filter and new exhaust for a few hundred quid will close the gap. If you simply refuse to do things like that, then fair enough (your loss). Lots of us do mod Impreza's so I thought it was a valid point to show it may have more potential if you're willing to look for it. Also, why can't a car handle brilliantly and have slightly vague steering? You can adapt to the steering feel (which it still good from what I've read) and the rest is up to the chassis balance - more important for handling.
25 January 2001, 04:54 PM
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Hmm. I think on most country roads the speed limit will be line-of-sight and attitude to life expectancy...closely followed by body control over our 3rd-world tarmac.
So presuming your driving has advanced beyond point-n-squirt, then on all but the tightest of roads the MY01 would be in with a shout - for the 40 seconds it takes you to catch the next caravan/Metro/tractor/Integra
So presuming your driving has advanced beyond point-n-squirt, then on all but the tightest of roads the MY01 would be in with a shout - for the 40 seconds it takes you to catch the next caravan/Metro/tractor/Integra
25 January 2001, 05:06 PM
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"for the 40 seconds it takes you to catch the next caravan/Metro/tractor/Integra"
I can only assume you mean that you catch the Teg due to the fact that it too is stuck behind the caravan/Metro and tractor
We wont mention what happens when the road clears, and MY 01 is disapearing into the distance in my rear view mirror.
Pah, improved handling? we'll see if its improved enough to make the Teg R grade
I can only assume you mean that you catch the Teg due to the fact that it too is stuck behind the caravan/Metro and tractor
We wont mention what happens when the road clears, and MY 01 is disapearing into the distance in my rear view mirror.
Pah, improved handling? we'll see if its improved enough to make the Teg R grade
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