Tidgy

following on fromt his thread

https://www.scoobynet.com/other-marq...ggestions.html

its been sugested that FWD is just as capable as AWD in the twisties and B roads.

also mentioned was that a hot hatch could out brake a classic scoob, my argument against that is the classic impreza weighs alot less, eg vxr 1393 and scoob 1235kg (both kerb weights)

so argue away, but please keep it constructive or it'll just get locked

stilover

All depend on weight/power/road conditions.

A 106GTI is a better performance car IMHO on twisty backroads where power doesn't count. It has only 120bhp, but weights 975kg thus making it a very chuckable fun car.

A FWD high powered car like the new Focus RS will still be a very good performance car once rolling. The higher the speed the less it needs AWD. The weight advantage on non-AWD comes into play.

An AWD car will always have an advantage on wet or bumpy roads as the AWD system takes the strain thus giving maximum performace without comprimise.

An AWD car & a FWD car with the same chassis/weight will corner exactly the same as it's the grip of the tyre that determines initial turn-in cornering speed. A lighter FWD car should have higher cornering grip as it weighs less thus not having as much mass to shift.

However a AWD car will always exit a corner faster as again the AWD system will `sort`it out when asked to give full power that a FWD or RWD car could not do so without power understeer/oversteer.

For me the higher the power/torque (over 200bhp) a AWD car is the better all round performace car
Below 200BHP a FWD car is the better performance car.

Tidgy

interesting one that, it was a dirrect comparison between a focus st and classic.

mate was having serious grip issues in his vxr when the scoob was hardley even trying

WRX Blues

My 1994 Rover 216 (115bhp / 1080kg) is much faster in the twisties in the dry than my WRX (280bhp / 1395kg) which proves that FWD is infinetly better . Hang on, best also factor in that I am a rubbish driver .

SPIDERWRX

(its been sugested that FWD is just as capable as AWD in the twisties and B roads.)

if the power is 200bhp/240bhp fwd vs awd (aint going to be lot in it)

BUT if the power is 300bhp/350bhp (the fwd car aint got a hope)

speedking

But its not as simple as that.

1. Weight distribution. An AWD car is inherently more balanced than a FWD where a lot of the weight is at one end. Therefore the grip is not equal on all the tyres.

2. The FWD drive car is using a higher proportion of the available grip to turn.

3. It depends whether you are accelerating, coasting or braking through the corner. If accelerating, then more weight is transferred to the back of the car, which in an AWD has more traction.

etc.

Weight increases grip. So a heavier car with the same power to weight ratio as a lighter car, both on the same tyres, would have more grip, and therefore be able to corner faster (both with the same drive layout).

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

My take on FWD in high performance cars is summed up by this poster:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...uitability.jpg

Mus

iTrader: (2)

so say fwd fiat coupe turbo with 350 bhp or a mark 1 golf with an s3 lump runing also 350bhp and a scooby type r with 400 rolling start from 70 to 150 or 160plus on an air feild not public roads or motorways wat do u think the out com will be????? dont awd lose a lot of power through transmission?would it be tight????

Mus

iTrader: (2)

on a stright line

Tidgy

type r doesn't hit 150 unless its got a different box in it lol.

but in all seriousness, the golf would prob win, but how often would you be on a airfield in that situation?


i'm not realy talking about a straight line tbh, as you sugest the transmission loss is a real issue, however 350bhp+ scoobs arn't that uncommon, not seen many golfs with audi lumps (although i know there are some out there).

Mus

iTrader: (2)

the mark 1 golf with the S3 lump is very rare i didnt belive it till i saw it.my type r has PPG with a Td05 20G will be intresting.how bad is the transmision loss u r starting to worry me

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

Mus,


Driver skill will play more of a card then anything else anyway....

Just make sure you drive properly and you'll be ok!

nixxon

Wrong way round! Think about it!

AshMurc

Hmm, not sure its as simple as that! Higher weight means more inertia, therefore the car will not be so willing to change direction. therefore the tyres and suspension have to work harder to generate a directional change, destroying any potential benefit of having more weight pressing the tyres into the road. don't think my car would corner better if i loaded iot with cement bags... A light weight car counts for more then just acceleration and breaking performance.

by careful distribution of limited additional weight it might be possible to gain benefits when cornering, but only up to a certain point

escott

iTrader: (1)

Was on an airfield driver training day recently (Andy Walsh - Carlimits) and there were 3 of us, all with different types of car.

Me - standard 02 WRX Wagon (1410kg 215bhp) 4WD
Friend in an 04 Seat Leon Cupra R with Revo Map - 1376 kg and roughly 255bhp? FWD
BMW 330i (1575kg 231bhp) RWD

The Leon was clearly fastest in a straight line ONCE the cars were rolling, although it had some serious traction issues from launch, and the traction control light would still be flashing in 3rd on a dry track! Bit of a torque steer nightmare to be honest.

Round the circuit we laid out in the afternoon, despite the Leon having better brakes and more power, my WRX was quicker and much more fun to drive, the Leon was understeering, too soft and couldn't get the power down, although by the end of a straight it was travelling quicker. I would say my friend is probably a better driver than me, but I was beating him by a second or 2 per lap (1.03 to 1.05ish).

Having said this, the beemer was actually the most fun and just as quick.

I know the Leon might not be the best FWD car, and not as good as a Focus ST, but it kind of validated for me the reason I bought the WRX - I was looking for a reasonably quick non-FWD family car, I reckon I chose the right one. The most interesting thing for me is that I prefered the beemer over the Leon, which I really didn't expect.

By the way, my car was voted best sounding!

martwrxsl

In a straight line a fwd car. The new focus rs is a joke 300bhp through the front wheels. Looks fantastic but if you put it against the new sti in anything but a striaght road it with kill it. The posts above have explained it. Seat leons and all the other fwd mob who are running more than 250 bhp are wasting there time. As I said before when this focus rs comes out and they put it around the top gear test track, watch the time!