Who acutally uses trackday insurance?
10 January 2001, 02:47 PM
#2
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I agree completely and amazingly enough was thinking about raising this point. Fact is :
If you get hit by someone else, whether he is insured or not, you are NOT covered. You will not find trackday cover that covers THIRD PARTY, only personal damage cover.
I still believe that without insurance you shouldnt be allowed on the track at all.
"I'm curious about this as I'm considering doing a trackday, and I, a) will get track day cover, and b) want to know what'll happen if, unlikely as it is, that I'm hit by someone without trackday cover."
Sorry to say, tough, you either have to claim from your insurance company or make the claims independently or come up with the bill yourself.
Cem
[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 10 January 2001).]
If you get hit by someone else, whether he is insured or not, you are NOT covered. You will not find trackday cover that covers THIRD PARTY, only personal damage cover.
I still believe that without insurance you shouldnt be allowed on the track at all.
"I'm curious about this as I'm considering doing a trackday, and I, a) will get track day cover, and b) want to know what'll happen if, unlikely as it is, that I'm hit by someone without trackday cover."
Sorry to say, tough, you either have to claim from your insurance company or make the claims independently or come up with the bill yourself.
Cem
[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 10 January 2001).]
10 January 2001, 02:47 PM
#3
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For trackdays any insurance cover is "no fault". i.e. if you crash or are hit by another car then your insurance will cover your car.
This avoids any arguements about who's fault was the claim.
This means that if you don't have insurance, you need to be 100% sure that you won't crash and that nobody will crash into you.
Do you like gambling?
Mark
[This message has been edited by Dark (edited 10 January 2001).]
This avoids any arguements about who's fault was the claim.
This means that if you don't have insurance, you need to be 100% sure that you won't crash and that nobody will crash into you.
Do you like gambling?
Mark
[This message has been edited by Dark (edited 10 January 2001).]
10 January 2001, 02:56 PM
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Basically guys'n'gals...IMHO Track Day cover provides indemnity to reinstate you for you loss following damage to YOUR insured vehicle...and no one elses...!!
i.e. if some Muppet spins out and takes little old innocent you with him/her into the Kitty Litter then you have to claim on your Track Day policy - or standard policy if they still cover you (mind you - it seems that most insurers are now pulling out of covering policyholders automatically)...
As Dark says...do you like gambling...???
Markus you have mail
i.e. if some Muppet spins out and takes little old innocent you with him/her into the Kitty Litter then you have to claim on your Track Day policy - or standard policy if they still cover you (mind you - it seems that most insurers are now pulling out of covering policyholders automatically)...
As Dark says...do you like gambling...???
Markus you have mail
10 January 2001, 03:09 PM
#5
I use it (surprise surprise 
)
For the simple reason that if I stack PTMW! or someone knocks into me, PTMW! would be repaired.
There is <B>NO WAY ON EARTH</B> my missus would a) let me drive on track uninsured for repair to our car or b) allow me another scoob after a total loss
Peace of mind
And I <I>really really</I> hope I never need it. Surprisingly, I never push the car to its limits & my mods are designed to make <I>my</I> safety envelope (& hence limits) bigger/wider. I back off from confrontational drivers (remember Brands
).
PTMW! will live to drive another day
[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 10 January 2001).]
)For the simple reason that if I stack PTMW! or someone knocks into me, PTMW! would be repaired.
There is <B>NO WAY ON EARTH</B> my missus would a) let me drive on track uninsured for repair to our car or b) allow me another scoob after a total loss
Peace of mind
And I <I>really really</I> hope I never need it. Surprisingly, I never push the car to its limits & my mods are designed to make <I>my</I> safety envelope (& hence limits) bigger/wider. I back off from confrontational drivers (remember Brands
).PTMW! will live to drive another day
[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 10 January 2001).]
10 January 2001, 03:19 PM
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Glad to see I'm not the only one with these concerns.
I agree with you Cem that you should not be allowed on track unless you have insurance. I know that some of us can quite happliy afford to completely replace the car, and insure it, if it gets totally written off, however I'm not in this position (wish I was) and therefore I'd like to protect my car (so why take it on track then ) from others.
As Dark says 'do you like gambling?'
my answer? no, not with my life or my car.
I agree with you Cem that you should not be allowed on track unless you have insurance. I know that some of us can quite happliy afford to completely replace the car, and insure it, if it gets totally written off, however I'm not in this position (wish I was
) and therefore I'd like to protect my car (so why take it on track then ) from others.As Dark says 'do you like gambling?'
my answer? no, not with my life or my car.
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10 January 2001, 03:23 PM
#8
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With you Puff. I use my scoob as my main transport, as most of us do, it's not a weekend playing, so I cannot trash it. If it is written off then I'm screwed. SuzyQ would never allow me near a track unless, both of us have trackday cover, and there is some security if it all goes ****-up.
I'm a fraidy cat and will back off rather than get into a driving situation I can't get out of. I will give up way, way before the car does.
have trackday cover, and there is some security if it all goes ****-up.I'm a fraidy cat and will back off rather than get into a driving situation I can't get out of. I will give up way, way before the car does.
10 January 2001, 03:47 PM
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Yes but it does add 50-70% on to the cost of the track day (in my case anyway), and thats not even covering the full cost of the car - and having a big excess.
I'm still thinking about it ...
I'm still thinking about it ...
10 January 2001, 04:15 PM
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Be careful with Privilege, that's an old letter!
Since transfering their underwriting to Direct Line they DO NOT cover trackdays.
Anyone with an "old" policy (greater than six months?) is probabily okay but for anyone who has renewed recently or is about to renew then check carefully, don't just assume that you are still covered.
I was previously with Privilege but have now renewed with Greenlight who will cover trackdays for a small fee.
Dark
Since transfering their underwriting to Direct Line they DO NOT cover trackdays.
Anyone with an "old" policy (greater than six months?) is probabily okay but for anyone who has renewed recently or is about to renew then check carefully, don't just assume that you are still covered.
I was previously with Privilege but have now renewed with Greenlight who will cover trackdays for a small fee.
Dark
10 January 2001, 04:20 PM
#12
I have always taken out track insurance for every event that I've done. Even though I am confident that I'm not going to spin off into the tyre wall, there is always the possibility of a tyre blowing out, or a suspension component failing somewhere, or even hitting a patch of oil that has just been deposited on the track. Then there is the possibility that the person ahead or behind you on the track spins off, or suffers severe brake fade and hits you.
I have always used Egger Lawson to provide the track cover, and they have done so at a very reasonable cost (IMHO). For some events at Knockhill, cover was only £30 or £35, at which level almost everyone takes out the cover.
Although the full value of the car is not covered, in most instances, the level of cover provided would repair virtually any accident on track (e.g. front end a side into the tyre wall). It obviously wouldn't cover a total write-off, but I presume in this case you would simply claim for the maximum amount of cover, and you would be left with the wreckage of the car, which in itself would have significant value (have you seen how much engines, gearboxes, seats etc sell for ?).
At the end of the day, it is up to the individual taking part, but it is a significant risk if you are not insured.
One thing to note is that if you do claim off your road insurance (if you have cover through them), then your premiums will rise significantly over the coming years, even with protected NCB, as I believe the consider this as almost a wreckless driving accident with the driver being 100% at fault. At least with separate insurance cover, you can get the car repaired without it affecting your normal road insurance.
If you are doing lots of track days, then it obviously makes sense to get a season ticket type policy, where you cimple notify your insurers in advance of any track activity that you are taking part in.
I have always used Egger Lawson to provide the track cover, and they have done so at a very reasonable cost (IMHO). For some events at Knockhill, cover was only £30 or £35, at which level almost everyone takes out the cover.
Although the full value of the car is not covered, in most instances, the level of cover provided would repair virtually any accident on track (e.g. front end a side into the tyre wall). It obviously wouldn't cover a total write-off, but I presume in this case you would simply claim for the maximum amount of cover, and you would be left with the wreckage of the car, which in itself would have significant value (have you seen how much engines, gearboxes, seats etc sell for ?).
At the end of the day, it is up to the individual taking part, but it is a significant risk if you are not insured.
One thing to note is that if you do claim off your road insurance (if you have cover through them), then your premiums will rise significantly over the coming years, even with protected NCB, as I believe the consider this as almost a wreckless driving accident with the driver being 100% at fault. At least with separate insurance cover, you can get the car repaired without it affecting your normal road insurance.
If you are doing lots of track days, then it obviously makes sense to get a season ticket type policy, where you cimple notify your insurers in advance of any track activity that you are taking part in.
10 January 2001, 04:31 PM
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A couple of points...
By it's very nature, a "race track" is an aggressive piece of tarmac. If you are even the slightest bit worried about damaging your car or more importantly yourself then you should stay well away.
If you have trackday insurance does this mean that you are not as bothered if someone hits you? and therefore take more chances?
And then of course if you don't have insurance, would you be driving more carefully knowing that you cannot afford to touch anyone or anything?
I have organised several trackdays and taken insurance out on one occasion, probably because everyone else was taking it.
I don't think you should force everyone to have insurance. In some cases it can double the cost of a track day/night. Usually the one that suffers is the organisor, who has to pay the extra for any cancellations by participants who suddenly can't afford it.
An alternative is sprint track days, one car at a time, against the clock. I've done a few of these days and it's great fun. Never had any damage.
Thats it
By it's very nature, a "race track" is an aggressive piece of tarmac. If you are even the slightest bit worried about damaging your car or more importantly yourself then you should stay well away.
If you have trackday insurance does this mean that you are not as bothered if someone hits you? and therefore take more chances?
And then of course if you don't have insurance, would you be driving more carefully knowing that you cannot afford to touch anyone or anything?
I have organised several trackdays and taken insurance out on one occasion, probably because everyone else was taking it.
I don't think you should force everyone to have insurance. In some cases it can double the cost of a track day/night. Usually the one that suffers is the organisor, who has to pay the extra for any cancellations by participants who suddenly can't afford it.
An alternative is sprint track days, one car at a time, against the clock. I've done a few of these days and it's great fun. Never had any damage.
Thats it
10 January 2001, 06:11 PM
#14
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I used not to take out insurance on a relatively low-value Caterham 7, but now I'm starting to take more expensive cars (Scooby, Elise) onto the track, I do take out cover. I wouldn't personally claim on my road insurance 'cos of the no-claims/premium increase implications, so get it through a separate insurer. Typically I get around 50% of the car's value insured.
Defnitely a key point is that there's a no blame situation on the track (events I've been on have that in the small print you sign) - so you pay for damage to your car, whoever/however caused.
I've used Gloucester Underwriters (if I remember the name correctly) giving about £10000 cover on an Elise for around £60 (Brands Hatch). That compares pretty favourably to other quotes I'd had in the past for around £120 for similar levels of insurance.
I've probably done around half a dozen track days in the last year or so, and at most of them have seen at least one car damaged in some way or other....
But by getting insurance, it won't change how I drive - I still don't want to prang my pride and joy!!
Defnitely a key point is that there's a no blame situation on the track (events I've been on have that in the small print you sign) - so you pay for damage to your car, whoever/however caused.
I've used Gloucester Underwriters (if I remember the name correctly) giving about £10000 cover on an Elise for around £60 (Brands Hatch). That compares pretty favourably to other quotes I'd had in the past for around £120 for similar levels of insurance.
I've probably done around half a dozen track days in the last year or so, and at most of them have seen at least one car damaged in some way or other....
But by getting insurance, it won't change how I drive - I still don't want to prang my pride and joy!!
10 January 2001, 06:20 PM
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Marcus
Yep, just printed it and faxed it off to my Ins. Co. (CGU). I got a fax back same day saying that I was covered for track days, and thay didn't need to ammend the policy. I am now insured with Norwich Union, this also covers me for as many track days as I want. Makes £1,250.00 per year for 4 drivers + business use seem a lot cheaper when you take that into account.
Cheers
Andy
[This message has been edited by Andy Hall (edited 10 January 2001).]
Yep, just printed it and faxed it off to my Ins. Co. (CGU). I got a fax back same day saying that I was covered for track days, and thay didn't need to ammend the policy. I am now insured with Norwich Union, this also covers me for as many track days as I want. Makes £1,250.00 per year for 4 drivers + business use seem a lot cheaper when you take that into account
. Cheers
Andy
[This message has been edited by Andy Hall (edited 10 January 2001).]
10 January 2001, 06:41 PM
#16
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Markus
You've got me thinking.
If you have a shunt on the track surely you would have to notify your insurance company regardless of whether they themselves are providing any track day insurance. Your accident influences the insurance company's assessment of your "risk". Thus the arguement for track day insurance preserving your regular insurance status is not valid.
Any thoughts Rum?
Martin
You've got me thinking.
If you have a shunt on the track surely you would have to notify your insurance company regardless of whether they themselves are providing any track day insurance. Your accident influences the insurance company's assessment of your "risk". Thus the arguement for track day insurance preserving your regular insurance status is not valid.
Any thoughts Rum?
Martin
10 January 2001, 06:44 PM
#17
My westfield has fully comprehensive, fixed value cover (14K) for track days built into the policy. I cant afford to total my car, so i made sure its covered. It costs me £380/year for 7,500 miles including unlimited track days. Taking out seperate individual cover simply isnt viable for me.
If i crash into you and your not insured then tuff, dont come asking for me to pay for your repair, you signed an indemnity form when you arrived at the track.
Does someone who is insured take more risks? Not if they have a brain they dont.
Whether or not i have insurance cover would not effect my driving in any way, if it did i would be seriously concerned about my mental state.
My insurance covers the car only, its doesnt cover a passenger i carry, as road insurance does, if you sit with me on track it's at your own risk and i will accept no responsibility for your future well being if you are injured.
I have no family responsibilities but if i had dependants i would ensure i had health and death insurance that included cover for dangerous sports, many exclude racing, trackdays MAY be interpreted as a dangerous sport, i suggest you check this and get a written letter to state you are covered doing these events.
Also, write a will, i know this is a bit of a morbid subject, but people do die driving on track, make sure if that did happen to you, your estate is in order, you dont want the government to steal your money, which is what happens if you have no direct relatives and no will.
I used to drive my cossie and previous cars on track without insurance, but i could afford the risk, so i used to gamble. I cant afford to gamble £14K though.
Shame there isnt a policy available for melting things, i'd be rich now.
If i crash into you and your not insured then tuff, dont come asking for me to pay for your repair, you signed an indemnity form when you arrived at the track.
Does someone who is insured take more risks? Not if they have a brain they dont.
Whether or not i have insurance cover would not effect my driving in any way, if it did i would be seriously concerned about my mental state.
My insurance covers the car only, its doesnt cover a passenger i carry, as road insurance does, if you sit with me on track it's at your own risk and i will accept no responsibility for your future well being if you are injured.
I have no family responsibilities but if i had dependants i would ensure i had health and death insurance that included cover for dangerous sports, many exclude racing, trackdays MAY be interpreted as a dangerous sport, i suggest you check this and get a written letter to state you are covered doing these events.
Also, write a will, i know this is a bit of a morbid subject, but people do die driving on track, make sure if that did happen to you, your estate is in order, you dont want the government to steal your money, which is what happens if you have no direct relatives and no will.
I used to drive my cossie and previous cars on track without insurance, but i could afford the risk, so i used to gamble. I cant afford to gamble £14K though.
Shame there isnt a policy available for melting things, i'd be rich now.
10 January 2001, 07:44 PM
#18
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I'm with Norwich union also and have had confirmation that track days are covered.
On an indivdual basis Norwich may be more expensive than most but if you put two cars onto the one policy the discount brings it back to a reasonable level.
I have the P1 and a Toyota Previa (Grp 14)
for both myself and wife including protected no claims for £1420pa. This also includes a few SP30's a SP60 and a no quibble pay out when you claim.
Cheeers
NigeK
On an indivdual basis Norwich may be more expensive than most but if you put two cars onto the one policy the discount brings it back to a reasonable level.
I have the P1 and a Toyota Previa (Grp 14)
for both myself and wife including protected no claims for £1420pa. This also includes a few SP30's a SP60 and a no quibble pay out when you claim.
Cheeers
NigeK
10 January 2001, 08:15 PM
#19
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At the outset stating that insurance on a so called "aggressive piece of tarmac" means you are going to be less careful implies the same thing if you wear seat belts when driving on the road!!
I insure a P1 with Priviledge as of 4 months ago. Track day cover included at no extra cost or raising of excess.
I also insure a 2.0l Westfield with Hill House Hammond at £230pa and same applies.
Hope this helps
I insure a P1 with Priviledge as of 4 months ago. Track day cover included at no extra cost or raising of excess.
I also insure a 2.0l Westfield with Hill House Hammond at £230pa and same applies.
Hope this helps
10 January 2001, 10:31 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dark:
<B>Be careful with Privilege, that's an old letter!
Since transfering their underwriting to Direct Line they DO NOT cover trackdays.
Dark[/quote]
I'm quite concerned about your comments - I'm insured with Barclays (who I think use Privilege). They sent a confirmation letter that I am insured on track. If I renew with them, and they don't change my policy wording, I will assume I am still covered.
I don't agree at all that all people should have insurance on track, since as others have pointed out, if someone hits you, they won't pay, whether they're insured or not. And although people aren't going to take silly risks just because they are insured, a driver who isn't insured maybe more likely to pull over as soon as they are caught up, or backoff if they can't get past someone.
If you had an accident on track, and had seperate cover, I do not see the need to tell your normal insurance co. an incident on track does not mean you are more likely to have an incident on the road, so shouldn't carry a load.
<B>Be careful with Privilege, that's an old letter!
Since transfering their underwriting to Direct Line they DO NOT cover trackdays.
Dark[/quote]
I'm quite concerned about your comments - I'm insured with Barclays (who I think use Privilege). They sent a confirmation letter that I am insured on track. If I renew with them, and they don't change my policy wording, I will assume I am still covered.
I don't agree at all that all people should have insurance on track, since as others have pointed out, if someone hits you, they won't pay, whether they're insured or not. And although people aren't going to take silly risks just because they are insured, a driver who isn't insured maybe more likely to pull over as soon as they are caught up, or backoff if they can't get past someone.
If you had an accident on track, and had seperate cover, I do not see the need to tell your normal insurance co. an incident on track does not mean you are more likely to have an incident on the road, so shouldn't carry a load.
10 January 2001, 10:32 PM
#21
Just thought I'd add (after subsequent posts) that the reason for a track day is <B>FUN</B>
It's not competitive, it is a chance to drive & experience the abilities of your car in an environment that although still inherently dangerous, is safer & more predictable than the road.
My driving, whilst more extreme than on the road, is still as necessarily cautious with regards other road (track) users & other hazards. At the end of the day any shunt is going to mar your enjoyment, whether you have insurance or not. Having it doesn't give me any more bravado - I still want to return home in one piece to my familly.
Only have "pink" mist in my car not "red" - Pink Floyd at full volume
It's not competitive, it is a chance to drive & experience the abilities of your car in an environment that although still inherently dangerous, is safer & more predictable than the road.
My driving, whilst more extreme than on the road, is still as necessarily cautious with regards other road (track) users & other hazards. At the end of the day any shunt is going to mar your enjoyment, whether you have insurance or not. Having it doesn't give me any more bravado - I still want to return home in one piece to my familly.
Only have "pink" mist in my car not "red" - Pink Floyd at full volume
12 January 2001, 03:31 PM
#26
Puff
I agree, I get a little pink but I don't know what I'm like at full volume!
But seriously folks, you lot have really scared me now, I think the sky is gonna fall in.
My insurance won't cover me for track so I'll have to provide my own. I would consider a yearly policy if anyone can recommend a good (cheap) one. £ 75 seems a little expensive for 1 day's insurance!
F
I agree, I get a little pink but I don't know what I'm like at full volume!
But seriously folks, you lot have really scared me now, I think the sky is gonna fall in.
My insurance won't cover me for track so I'll have to provide my own. I would consider a yearly policy if anyone can recommend a good (cheap) one. £ 75 seems a little expensive for 1 day's insurance!
F
12 January 2001, 03:44 PM
#27
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Now say you dont think u need cover !!! or its too expensive, been there seen it done it, got the new car (thanks Privilege), neck and back pain and thats just the physical stuff.
12 January 2001, 06:04 PM
#29
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Castle Coombe, 22nd August 1998, went into quarry a little over enthusiasticly, hit the tyre wall/armco end of story !!!! still suffer with back and neck pain occasionally.
I wont go into the mental side of it !
I wont go into the mental side of it !
12 January 2001, 08:36 PM
#30
Ian
You really are scaring me
If £75 is what it takes then £75 is what I'll pay, just wanted to know if I could get it cheaper or pay a reasonable price for the whole year etc.
By the way regarding the damage to your car, doesn't look too bad, I recon it'll polish out!
F
You really are scaring me If £75 is what it takes then £75 is what I'll pay, just wanted to know if I could get it cheaper or pay a reasonable price for the whole year etc.
By the way regarding the damage to your car, doesn't look too bad, I recon it'll polish out!
F