Is this legal?
21 January 2002, 05:16 PM
#1
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I've reluctantly been looking at trading my MY99 turbo in and have been given an interesting response by the Ford (sob) dealer.
After they called several Subaru garages I was informed that they (the Subaru dealer) were not "allowed" to buy my car (Belgian import) or they will lose their franchise!!! They wouldn;t give it to me in writing.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Any suggestions????
After they called several Subaru garages I was informed that they (the Subaru dealer) were not "allowed" to buy my car (Belgian import) or they will lose their franchise!!! They wouldn;t give it to me in writing.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Any suggestions????
21 January 2002, 05:19 PM
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I am pretty sure that a subaru dealer will not touch an EU import with a bargepole. Having just sold my UK car on Saturday I sympathise as I found it hard enough finding a dealer who was even interested in buying it. At first I was interested in getting a MINI and even the MINI dealer had to search for 2 weeks to get me a price. He would have had to palm it off to a Subaru Dealer as the cars are a bit too specialised to sell elsewhere.
Unfortunately you get nothing for nothing and although buying an Import saved you money when you first bought it you are now paying the price with regard to selling it.
Unfortunately you get nothing for nothing and although buying an Import saved you money when you first bought it you are now paying the price with regard to selling it.
21 January 2002, 05:20 PM
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Never heard of that one. I know UK dealers are'nt supposed to sell Jap imports, but never heard of not being allowed to sell Euro ones. Best phone up a few dealers yourself and ask.
I suspect the Ford garage does'nt want your car(or to give a good price for it), so have just made the story up.
I suspect the Ford garage does'nt want your car(or to give a good price for it), so have just made the story up.
21 January 2002, 05:24 PM
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It would kind of make sense.. imagine on the forecourt...
Two W reg UK Turbos, one going for circa £19K and one for circa £14K, similar mileage & spec... How the hell is a dealer going to explain that one away?
Alex
Two W reg UK Turbos, one going for circa £19K and one for circa £14K, similar mileage & spec... How the hell is a dealer going to explain that one away?
Alex
21 January 2002, 05:27 PM
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Alex,
The same would apply to ANY manufacturer selling Euro and UK cars.
The answer would be one was with full UK warranty and the other would be with Euro or 1 year only warranty.
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 1/21/2002 5:37:29 PM]
The same would apply to ANY manufacturer selling Euro and UK cars.
The answer would be one was with full UK warranty and the other would be with Euro or 1 year only warranty.
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 1/21/2002 5:37:29 PM]
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21 January 2002, 05:48 PM
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Anthony Betts Subaru were happy to make me an offer for my MY00 PPP EU-imported with after-market fitted PPP - offered me £13k as a starting price in exchange towards a P1. Maybe talk to them?
Cheers
Richard
Cheers
Richard
21 January 2002, 06:12 PM
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I should think that a dealer can buy or sell any car that he feels like and for any reason. If they are actually being banned by IM then that sounds dodgy! How do you prove it though? The dealers are probably just using this as a cop out because they don't want to be faced with a dilema. If they sell identical euro imports on the forecourt for less than a uk car they are admitting that the uk's are overpriced. When they get people asking what the difference is and they can't find any, nobody would buy the uk cars at a higher price. The only other thing they could do would be to sell the Euro cars at the higher price of a UK car and there is no reason why they shouldn't. It is only places like this BBS that say a Euro import is worth less because UK scooby owners don't like the thought of someone having driven around in the same car as them for 3 years with zero depreciation. The Subaru dealers are going to think along these lines too, therefore if they bury their heads in the sand and ignore the Euro imports they don't have to face up to this.
The car in question would be at the end of its warranty period even if it was UK supplied and a dealer can add an extended warranty to either if he wants.
[Edited by Boost II - 1/21/2002 6:16:28 PM]
The car in question would be at the end of its warranty period even if it was UK supplied and a dealer can add an extended warranty to either if he wants.
[Edited by Boost II - 1/21/2002 6:16:28 PM]
21 January 2002, 06:52 PM
#10
I suspect the dealer isn't buying Turbos whatsoever and is using this as an opportunity to slate imports. I've seen Sonic Blue MY00s advertised from main dealers and these must either be EU imports or from Northern Ireland. When I tried selling my last Turbo (UK Dealer Supplied) I was amazed how few main dealers would buy a car in for cash.
You're probably better off selling the car seperately and then getting a cash deal on the car you're buying. Try Chris at www.scoobyscene.co.uk - he might be interested.
Cheers,
Ian.
[Edited by Ian E - 1/21/2002 6:52:43 PM]
You're probably better off selling the car seperately and then getting a cash deal on the car you're buying. Try Chris at www.scoobyscene.co.uk - he might be interested.
Cheers,
Ian.
[Edited by Ian E - 1/21/2002 6:52:43 PM]
21 January 2002, 06:53 PM
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There's not reason why any dealer shouldn't be able to buy a vehicle that was originally sourced from elsewhere in Europe - after all, they are basically the same vehicle. I've heard of several UK franchised Audi dealers obtaining TTs from Europe, then selling them at the full UK secondhand price, on their forecourts, alongside their UK sourced cars.
To be honest, it's quite plausible that IM are telling dealers to say that they can't buy European imports, just to get the word around and to discourage poeple from obtaining their new Subarus from Europe. When Block Exempltion is lifted (hopefully later in the year), this will sort the situation out. That will give franchised dealers much more freedom to source their new stock from where they want, and should help keep prices more competitive into the bargain.
Talking of manufacturers exerting pressure on their dealers, don't forget that VW in Germany have been fined for this twice by the EU, as have Opel and (recently) Daimler Chrysler (Mercedes). In the VW case, Italian VW dealers were told to refuse to sell cars to german custoers who popped across the border to buy cars that were on sale cheaper than in their native land!
It's all a ploy to keep new car prices artificially high, and for the manufacturers to maximise profits. After all, they wouldn't be selling their products in high tax countries like Holland and Denmark if they didn't make a profit on the pre-tax price.....
Cheers, Harry.
To be honest, it's quite plausible that IM are telling dealers to say that they can't buy European imports, just to get the word around and to discourage poeple from obtaining their new Subarus from Europe. When Block Exempltion is lifted (hopefully later in the year), this will sort the situation out. That will give franchised dealers much more freedom to source their new stock from where they want, and should help keep prices more competitive into the bargain.
Talking of manufacturers exerting pressure on their dealers, don't forget that VW in Germany have been fined for this twice by the EU, as have Opel and (recently) Daimler Chrysler (Mercedes). In the VW case, Italian VW dealers were told to refuse to sell cars to german custoers who popped across the border to buy cars that were on sale cheaper than in their native land!
It's all a ploy to keep new car prices artificially high, and for the manufacturers to maximise profits. After all, they wouldn't be selling their products in high tax countries like Holland and Denmark if they didn't make a profit on the pre-tax price.....
Cheers, Harry.
21 January 2002, 07:27 PM
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Main dealer Subaru garage in Sevenoaks refused to even look at my MY01 Euro Import a few weeks ago when I said I was Interested in an STI. The salesmans exact words were, and I kid you not "Serves you right for buying from Europe sir, you would have to be stupid to do that now"[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Nathan..
Nathan..
21 January 2002, 07:37 PM
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Whwhn I chopped my old rover coupe in for my Impreza the dealer NEARLY wouldn't take it because it was imported!!! I think his real issue was that that the HPi had come up saying metallic blue Metro Nightfire instead of Metallic Blue rover coupe. I told him it was a british forces import and he seemed quite happy and accepted the car.
21 January 2002, 07:47 PM
#14
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Its up to the Dealer I would think? They are having a tough enough time selling a 'clean, un-modified, one owner UK model'!!
I cannot blame them therefore for choosing their cars very carefully - its market forces, I certainly wouldnt want to give 'proper' money for an unofficial import .... and, considering the speciality of the car, an import will be way down anyones list of a 'desirable' car - sad, but thats the way it is.
Just think of the problem facing the seller of a 'Grey' Import?? - a White Elephant? - I should say so!! it would be easier to sell a secondhand Concorde!!
Pete
[Edited by pslewis - 1/21/2002 7:49:32 PM]
I cannot blame them therefore for choosing their cars very carefully - its market forces, I certainly wouldnt want to give 'proper' money for an unofficial import .... and, considering the speciality of the car, an import will be way down anyones list of a 'desirable' car - sad, but thats the way it is.
Just think of the problem facing the seller of a 'Grey' Import?? - a White Elephant? - I should say so!! it would be easier to sell a secondhand Concorde!!
Pete
[Edited by pslewis - 1/21/2002 7:49:32 PM]
21 January 2002, 08:02 PM
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Pete - a European sourced car isn't a grey import. The trade refers to them as 'parallel imports' and the dealer is just trying to get an angle in most cases. The dealers are trying to have their cake and eat it - see my earlier TT example.
I suspect that Scooby dealers have been told not to accept imports by IM. it's the only way they can justify the outrageous difference in price between a UK supplied and, say, a Belgian or Dutch car. After all, they are built in the same factory, and can be kitted out to the same spec.
There's an interesting article on the 'issue' on page 158 of February's Car Magazine, written by James Ruppert (you might have seen him on Driven).
Cheers, Harry.
I suspect that Scooby dealers have been told not to accept imports by IM. it's the only way they can justify the outrageous difference in price between a UK supplied and, say, a Belgian or Dutch car. After all, they are built in the same factory, and can be kitted out to the same spec.
There's an interesting article on the 'issue' on page 158 of February's Car Magazine, written by James Ruppert (you might have seen him on Driven).
Cheers, Harry.
21 January 2002, 08:12 PM
#16
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Thanks Harry - when I said a 'Grey' import I meant a Jap import.
But, add the word import to a car and it sheds £££££££££'s - thats how it is. I am not saying its right or wrong - but think of the dealer, will he sell an import to Joe public?? when Joe public wont touch it?? NO, so he doesnt want one cluttering up his forecourt.
He wants one owner, UK spec, UK supplied, Un-Modified, straight cars ............................... and EVEN then he might never find a buyer!!
Pete
But, add the word import to a car and it sheds £££££££££'s - thats how it is. I am not saying its right or wrong - but think of the dealer, will he sell an import to Joe public?? when Joe public wont touch it?? NO, so he doesnt want one cluttering up his forecourt.
He wants one owner, UK spec, UK supplied, Un-Modified, straight cars ............................... and EVEN then he might never find a buyer!!
Pete
21 January 2002, 08:31 PM
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Nice thread - Dealer Input incoming
I haven't spoken to IM but I would guess their opinion would be this - If you want to trade in a Grey/Parallel Import to buy a UK car then no problem. After all you are 'coming back to the fold'.
Personally, I would price the trade in according to what it was. Parallel we could resell as a retail car, after all we service them officialy and carry out pan-european warranty work. Grey would get a bit of a hammering on price as we would have to sell it in the trade. Any dealer should be happy to take a Grey Import in part-ex, but expect a price to reflect the fact that IM would frown on the fact that we would sell them on.
I'll take anything from a sit on lawn mower to a HGV as a trade in, but don't expect top money - we're not lawn mower dealers or truck dealers
David
[Edited by Shark - 1/21/2002 8:33:17 PM]
I haven't spoken to IM but I would guess their opinion would be this - If you want to trade in a Grey/Parallel Import to buy a UK car then no problem. After all you are 'coming back to the fold'.
Personally, I would price the trade in according to what it was. Parallel we could resell as a retail car, after all we service them officialy and carry out pan-european warranty work. Grey would get a bit of a hammering on price as we would have to sell it in the trade. Any dealer should be happy to take a Grey Import in part-ex, but expect a price to reflect the fact that IM would frown on the fact that we would sell them on.
I'll take anything from a sit on lawn mower to a HGV as a trade in, but don't expect top money - we're not lawn mower dealers or truck dealers
David
[Edited by Shark - 1/21/2002 8:33:17 PM]
21 January 2002, 08:34 PM
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I hear what you say, Pete. But, even the used car value gurus CAP are now acknowledging that, provided the the European car is of the same spec and insurance group (ie, it has the same category of alarm), there is no difference between UK-supplied and European-supplied cars in terms of second hand value.
The fact that a large number of franchised dealers are selling European-sourced cars onto the buying public proves my point. In fact, 99% of people won't even know that they are being sold a second hand European-sourced car, because the reg document won't reveal this, and they won't think to ask the dealer where it came from.
The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter. And, buyers are switching onto this - just witness the big names that are already in car sales (Virgin, Jam Jar etc), and those such as Tesco that are waiting in the wings.
Another point is, where do you think that the excess stock from importers such as Virgin etc goes? That's right, it's sold back into the trade for many of the franchised dealers to pick up and sell on as new cars (which they are, of course - although no one mentions where they came from....)
The fact that a large number of franchised dealers are selling European-sourced cars onto the buying public proves my point. In fact, 99% of people won't even know that they are being sold a second hand European-sourced car, because the reg document won't reveal this, and they won't think to ask the dealer where it came from.
The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter. And, buyers are switching onto this - just witness the big names that are already in car sales (Virgin, Jam Jar etc), and those such as Tesco that are waiting in the wings.
Another point is, where do you think that the excess stock from importers such as Virgin etc goes? That's right, it's sold back into the trade for many of the franchised dealers to pick up and sell on as new cars (which they are, of course - although no one mentions where they came from....)
21 January 2002, 08:38 PM
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Hi Shark,
Just read your response, Mate.
"Parallel we could resell as a retail car". Exactly my point!!
Cheers, Harry.
Just read your response, Mate.
"Parallel we could resell as a retail car". Exactly my point!!
Cheers, Harry.
22 January 2002, 10:05 AM
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guys,
cheers for your wise words, and I'll check the URL.
(for some reason I didn't get email notification of replies- must look into it).
I disagree with Pete- put identical spec UK sourced vs parallel UK car on a forcourt at the respective prices and it's a no brainer for Mr J Public. I'd like to listen to a dealer try and explain material differences between the two (and before anyone says, I've just had warranty work done, and still have the 3rd year of the Belgian warranty left). I think trying to confuse greys/parallels is a deliberate ploy at scaring off J Public et al.
Anyone with half a brain knows the cars are identical- I'd have no problem buying another parallel import, but it is a nuisance being flatly refused a trade in.
I'm going to see what watchdog have to say on the matter. I think eveyone's bored with cut price airline stories!
cheers for your wise words, and I'll check the URL.
(for some reason I didn't get email notification of replies- must look into it).
I disagree with Pete- put identical spec UK sourced vs parallel UK car on a forcourt at the respective prices and it's a no brainer for Mr J Public. I'd like to listen to a dealer try and explain material differences between the two (and before anyone says, I've just had warranty work done, and still have the 3rd year of the Belgian warranty left). I think trying to confuse greys/parallels is a deliberate ploy at scaring off J Public et al.
Anyone with half a brain knows the cars are identical- I'd have no problem buying another parallel import, but it is a nuisance being flatly refused a trade in.
I'm going to see what watchdog have to say on the matter. I think eveyone's bored with cut price airline stories!
22 January 2002, 10:09 AM
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Hi Sickboy,
My thoughts exactly. As I said earlier, the trade is just using this as an excuse to beat down the prices they pay to acquire imports for resale. Then, they flog them for the full CAP/Glass's price. Prize One hypocrisy!!
Cheers, Harry.
My thoughts exactly. As I said earlier, the trade is just using this as an excuse to beat down the prices they pay to acquire imports for resale. Then, they flog them for the full CAP/Glass's price. Prize One hypocrisy!!
Cheers, Harry.
22 January 2002, 10:16 AM
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Strange all this ... bit of a case where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand does, literally. Why does Subaru allow Dutch & Belgian dealers to sell RHD cars ?
IM is fighting a loosing battle I think ...
Oh, and last time I checked, the UK was part of Europe
IM is fighting a loosing battle I think ...
Oh, and last time I checked, the UK was part of Europe
22 January 2002, 10:29 AM
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Is it me or is this just not right 
Me mate got a Honda Accord from Europe for 4,000 cheaper than over here.
The car was made here (swindon) shipped to eurpoe, baught by him, driven over here by him
Are you with me so far, it's a UK spec car built in the UK, sold in Eurpoe.
Simple, noooooooooooooo
Every Honda dealership he has gone to has been so far up there own cracks, because he did not buy from them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
My suggestion is get a good PRIVATE sale, may have to wait, but at least you will get what you want eventually.
Me mate got a Honda Accord from Europe for 4,000 cheaper than over here.
The car was made here (swindon) shipped to eurpoe, baught by him, driven over here by him
Are you with me so far, it's a UK spec car built in the UK, sold in Eurpoe.
Simple, noooooooooooooo
Every Honda dealership he has gone to has been so far up there own cracks, because he did not buy from them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
My suggestion is get a good PRIVATE sale, may have to wait, but at least you will get what you want eventually.
22 January 2002, 10:32 AM
#28
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Hi Guys,
Subaru has to allow Continental dealers to sell RHD cars to UK buyers, because the EC has ruled that there should be freedom to buy anywhere within Europe. More fool those that pay IM's (and all other franchised dealers') silly prices.... Like we all keep saying, they are the same cars!!!
Subaru has to allow Continental dealers to sell RHD cars to UK buyers, because the EC has ruled that there should be freedom to buy anywhere within Europe. More fool those that pay IM's (and all other franchised dealers') silly prices.... Like we all keep saying, they are the same cars!!!
22 January 2002, 10:47 AM
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I am heartened to read Sharks comment that Lavender Hill would consider a parallel import as a trade-in and would be prepared to resell it and that they would farily describe it as such.
However, all of us Euro import owners have our service books as issued by the supplying importer and thus it would be very difficult to camouflage the origin of a car, unless of course the service book cunningly went missing.....
Perhaps it is more common for cars manufactured in Europe and sold on the continent to UK buyers, such as Audi TT's, to come with an English language service book/warranties...but our cars sadly don't!
[Edited by Stephen Read - 1/22/2002 10:48:06 AM]
However, all of us Euro import owners have our service books as issued by the supplying importer and thus it would be very difficult to camouflage the origin of a car, unless of course the service book cunningly went missing.....
Perhaps it is more common for cars manufactured in Europe and sold on the continent to UK buyers, such as Audi TT's, to come with an English language service book/warranties...but our cars sadly don't!
[Edited by Stephen Read - 1/22/2002 10:48:06 AM]
22 January 2002, 11:04 AM
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Hi Stephen,
Interesting comment. Come the lifting of block exemption, even the dealers will be importing them. I'm assuming they'll manage to find UK service books then...
IM are a bit like Canute and the waves....
Interesting comment. Come the lifting of block exemption, even the dealers will be importing them. I'm assuming they'll manage to find UK service books then...
IM are a bit like Canute and the waves....