handbrake turns?
21 January 2002, 03:36 PM
#1
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hi all, just curious as to wether or not its safe to handbrake turn the scoobie, mines a standard irish spec car, can anyone give me the pros and cons....
Cheers Fergal
Cheers Fergal
21 January 2002, 03:45 PM
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heard it can explode the diff! possible in WRX's though cos they have quite a loose diff - check out the AWD section in the following website and they have a good guide to all the manovours
http://www.drivingtechniques.co.uk
http://www.drivingtechniques.co.uk
21 January 2002, 04:02 PM
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Fergal
Doing handbrake turns in a standard euro-scoob (like yours and mine) is a bad idea I'm afraid.
I can't give you the proper technical explanation but, simply put, it's really bad for the centre (viscous?) diff if your front and rear wheels are constantly turning at different rates. (ie front wheel turning nomally, rear wheels locked.)
You shouldn't do handbrake turns for the same reason as you MUST NOT have your car towed by the front or rear wheels only.
Rich
[Edited by RichS - 1/21/2002 4:03:44 PM]
Doing handbrake turns in a standard euro-scoob (like yours and mine) is a bad idea I'm afraid.
I can't give you the proper technical explanation but, simply put, it's really bad for the centre (viscous?) diff if your front and rear wheels are constantly turning at different rates. (ie front wheel turning nomally, rear wheels locked.)
You shouldn't do handbrake turns for the same reason as you MUST NOT have your car towed by the front or rear wheels only.
Rich
[Edited by RichS - 1/21/2002 4:03:44 PM]
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21 January 2002, 05:46 PM
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I have seen a Scooby in a garage with all the rear handbrake mech ripped off the backplate due to the driver trying to handbrake turn!
It was'nt pretty....It must have cost a fortune to have all new backplates,pins,shoes etc as well!
It had to be recovered by low loader as it had apparently completely locked the rear wheels solid and couldn't be driven!!
Bet he (she) did'nt try it again!
It was'nt pretty....It must have cost a fortune to have all new backplates,pins,shoes etc as well!
It had to be recovered by low loader as it had apparently completely locked the rear wheels solid and couldn't be driven!!
Bet he (she) did'nt try it again!
21 January 2002, 05:59 PM
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never done and never would if dry,but done a few in the wet,dump clutch,flick 180% and power away without any problems so far.
a m8 does them all the time,wet or dry and he's on 18's and another m8 uses the hand brake to start his donuts off,both have never had any problems.
we must be lucky I guess
a m8 does them all the time,wet or dry and he's on 18's and another m8 uses the hand brake to start his donuts off,both have never had any problems.
we must be lucky I guess
21 January 2002, 06:25 PM
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Been handbraking in mine for the last year and a half, I always depress the clutch and never had a problem. Saying that if it ever locks the rear wheels solid, the handbrake will be the last thing to worry about.
21 January 2002, 06:47 PM
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IIRC, the Type R and RA models with the electronic centre diff alledgedly open the diff when you pull the handbrake, thus making handbrake turns a more mechanically sympathetic proposal for the car. The later model R and RAs also have a beefed up rear brake and drive system, which also helps.
21 January 2002, 07:31 PM
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Zoog,
The WRC diffs are electronic and can be adjusted via laptop. During hanbrake turns drive to the rear wheels is disconnected.
Gearbox approx £60000
Diffs and drive shafts aprrox £55000
Lee
The WRC diffs are electronic and can be adjusted via laptop. During hanbrake turns drive to the rear wheels is disconnected.
Gearbox approx £60000
Diffs and drive shafts aprrox £55000
Lee
21 January 2002, 07:51 PM
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....been handbraking my scooby for over 14 months now... never had a prob....everyday I do it of 2 junctions on our lane and once more into the car park at work....I de-clutch everytime and sidestep it on release of the handbrake getting loadsa opposite lock....and I'll probably continue to do so... 
21 January 2002, 10:57 PM
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"Irish Spec Scoob"? Practically the same as the UK models, although they are all a lighter green than the Green Metallic we get. Also, there is little difference in performance between 98RON and Guiness. Oh, and two free lephrauns comewith each car.
22 January 2002, 05:58 AM
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IRISH SPEC SCOOB
I know the one.
1. It comes with a foreign driver (preferably English.....ozzies can't drive to save themselves)
2. Its got one of those keys attached to your wrist...same as on a jet ski....( Irish ppl may forget to remove the key upon exiting the car)
3. Driving instruction manual.
4. Extra set of lights coz the Irish are very DIM
4. Lots of weapons to fend off attackers.
other than that....its same as all the other scoobs.
Only joking...the Irish aren't stupid...
I don't know what I was just thinking......
YES THEY ARE A TAD DIM.....A LOT DIM......
No LIGHTS ON IN IRELAND........
I know the one.
1. It comes with a foreign driver (preferably English.....ozzies can't drive to save themselves)
2. Its got one of those keys attached to your wrist...same as on a jet ski....( Irish ppl may forget to remove the key upon exiting the car)
3. Driving instruction manual.
4. Extra set of lights coz the Irish are very DIM
4. Lots of weapons to fend off attackers.
other than that....its same as all the other scoobs.
Only joking...the Irish aren't stupid...
I don't know what I was just thinking......
YES THEY ARE A TAD DIM.....A LOT DIM......
No LIGHTS ON IN IRELAND........
22 January 2002, 09:40 AM
#22
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LOL ;-) sorry by irish spec i meant its not a JDM import (wrx. sti etc...) as the standard turbo 2000 is probably rarer over here than an sti ra ;-) BTW those extra leprechauns come in quite handy when changin a wheel...also dont forget we get the pint sized cup holder...
Cheers Fergal
Cheers Fergal
22 January 2002, 12:33 PM
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Why would anyone handbrake several time on the way to work, I know its good fun, however it is a tad antisocial (if other are around) and it is hard on the car.
Had a top session in the snow a couple of weeks back, deserted leisure centre car park covered in ice, wouldnt do it in the dry unless I really needed to (or I had already sold the car )
Had a top session in the snow a couple of weeks back, deserted leisure centre car park covered in ice, wouldnt do it in the dry unless I really needed to (or I had already sold the car )
22 January 2002, 01:03 PM
#24
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Had an MOT done on Saturday and they used the normal two wheel rollers but it was on the rollers and clutch engaged, brakes tested and off in about 10 seconds back and then 10seconds front.
There was not a complaint from the car, noise or wheel spin etc..
Was a bit worried about it... but it has done over 300miles since then so hoping it is okay. There has to be some give in it...
There was not a complaint from the car, noise or wheel spin etc..
Was a bit worried about it... but it has done over 300miles since then so hoping it is okay. There has to be some give in it...
22 January 2002, 01:45 PM
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Why would anyone handbrake several time on the way to work, I know its good fun, however it is a tad antisocial (if other are around) and it is hard on the car
22 January 2002, 02:18 PM
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Fair enough, it is your car !
Anyway I am off to Tesco on the A34 bypass tarmac special stage, hope the missus has got the pace notes ready. Cos I am a rally driver, I really am...........
Anyway I am off to Tesco on the A34 bypass tarmac special stage, hope the missus has got the pace notes ready. Cos I am a rally driver, I really am...........
22 January 2002, 03:09 PM
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Interesting comments.
As one who Autotested for a number of years, I feel qualified to comment on hand brake turns .
AFAIK the centre diff on a Euro spec UK scoob is of the viscous limited slip type. In other words, as the difference in axle speed between the front and rear axles increaces, the fluid acts to prevent the difference between a set of plates within the differential housing, this transfering torque to the axle experiencing slip. Sorry for the basics, but some don't have that much technical knowledge.
Following from that, if you lock the rear axle with the handbrake, the differential will experience the equivalent of slip and the viscous fluid will "fight" for want of a better word the difference in axle speeds, and effectively brake the front axle. Or more specifically the front wheel which has least grip as the front diff on a euro spec car is of the "free" type.
Viscous lsd's allow some slip, esp on full lock cornering.
So, and don't sue me if it all goes wrong, a low speed handbrake turn on ice, mud or snow with drive disengaged (clutch depressed)for the duration of the rear wheels being locked is, in my opinion, unlikely to cause any damage.
A low speed handbrake turn on asphalt or similar with drive disengaged and he brakes being applied to slow but not lock the front wheels is also unlikely to result in sufficient slip and hence loadings being applied to the diff(certainly less than slip arising from the application of power on wet or slippery surfaces from a standing start or exiting a low speed junction) to cause any damage.
If both rears and 1 front locked, no damage can be done period.
If, however, you apply the handbrake and power simultaneously or lock the rear wheels only at speed then you may overload the diff and either destroy the fluid's qualities due to overheating or possibly damage the plates. Unlikely you will "explode" a non mechanical diff
The reason there are problems with towing on one axle, etc, is that the difference in axle speeds is too high for too long and the diff will overheat.
Hope this helps!
D
As one who Autotested for a number of years, I feel qualified to comment on hand brake turns
.AFAIK the centre diff on a Euro spec UK scoob is of the viscous limited slip type. In other words, as the difference in axle speed between the front and rear axles increaces, the fluid acts to prevent the difference between a set of plates within the differential housing, this transfering torque to the axle experiencing slip. Sorry for the basics, but some don't have that much technical knowledge.
Following from that, if you lock the rear axle with the handbrake, the differential will experience the equivalent of slip and the viscous fluid will "fight" for want of a better word the difference in axle speeds, and effectively brake the front axle. Or more specifically the front wheel which has least grip as the front diff on a euro spec car is of the "free" type.
Viscous lsd's allow some slip, esp on full lock cornering.
So, and don't sue me if it all goes wrong, a low speed handbrake turn on ice, mud or snow with drive disengaged (clutch depressed)for the duration of the rear wheels being locked is, in my opinion, unlikely to cause any damage.
A low speed handbrake turn on asphalt or similar with drive disengaged and he brakes being applied to slow but not lock the front wheels is also unlikely to result in sufficient slip and hence loadings being applied to the diff(certainly less than slip arising from the application of power on wet or slippery surfaces from a standing start or exiting a low speed junction) to cause any damage.
If both rears and 1 front locked, no damage can be done period.
If, however, you apply the handbrake and power simultaneously or lock the rear wheels only at speed then you may overload the diff and either destroy the fluid's qualities due to overheating or possibly damage the plates. Unlikely you will "explode" a non mechanical diff
The reason there are problems with towing on one axle, etc, is that the difference in axle speeds is too high for too long and the diff will overheat.
Hope this helps!
D
22 January 2002, 03:58 PM
#29
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Oooops. Better stop it then. Shame really, as having the tyres paid for by the company really makes handbraking turning top fun. I've only done half a dozen or so in the two years I've had it and no problems so far......BUT, my old man might buy the car when its time for it to go back so should I ask the garage to check for anything before he stumps up the cash, gets hit with a repair bill and I'm off the Christmas present list.
Nick
Nick
