Toerag

OK, friday night after work, dark and pissing with rain, loads of traffic. Going to turn right at a T junction (I'm on the 'side road'), narrow roads in built up area. Wait for about 10 cars to come from the right before I see a gap. 4x4 was waiting to turn into my road from the left but couldn't as I had already edged out a bit. Went for the gap only to see a 15yr old girl on a scooter appear from my right (you can only see the driver's side of cars approaching from the right as there is a house obscuring your view), slammed on (I'd only gone 2 feet!), she grazed my front bumper and came off. She said she was OK (was in shock), and the woman driving the 4x4 had come out to help too. I then got back in the car and drove it to a sensible place and returned. Luckily(?) 2 cops on foot patrol walked round the corner just as I got back. Told them what happened, they basically said that I couldn't really be blamed due to the fact I couldn't see (it's a notorious bad junction), so they they made me take my insurance details & license to the station within a week and said the insurance co.s would sort it out between themselves.Same for the girl.

What do I do now? I have lost some paint and one of my headlamp squirters from the front bumper. I really can't be bothered to get it sorted as I'm likely to do more minor damage to it (off roading) before I get rid of the car. Ideally I'd like to keep the trashed bumper on , then put a new one on when I sell the car. I have 5 yrs no claims and protected bonus, but will my premiums go up? I guess I have to put the accident on the form even if I don't claim (to avoid fraud), and if that increases my premium I might as well claim. I am concerned that the insurance co.s will decide it's my fault (I pulled out into oncoming traffic). I didn't get the name of the woman in the 4x4, but she would be able to say if the scooter didn't have it's lights on (my only hope?). What are your thoughts? and how much is a painted front bumper for a Forester?

fast bloke

Was it a motorised scooter? Can you ride one on the road at 15?

Toerag

Yeah, a motorised one. You can ride anything under 50cc over here from the age of 14. She didn't really have a chance of stopping as it was so wet, but she should have seen me with ample time to stop.

fast bloke

Do you need insurance etc for those things? The police are not interested as it wasn't dangerous, careless etc, but the insurance company will probably decide it was your fault, as you are supposed to ensure the road is clear in both directions before pulling out. If she doesn't have insurance, your best long term plan is probably to offer to fix the scooter yourself. When it comes to renewal time, tell them you had a small bump, but no-one claimed for it. You could probably buy a new scooter for less than the excess anyway

carpet

You dont have to tell the insurance co's about every bump you have, the only ones they need to know about are the ones that you claimed off your insurance for, not even if you claim off someone elses insurance would you tell them, its not going to affect your premium and you will just confuse the person on the phone as they will then be filling in the bit on the form about accidents etc.....

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Was her scooter fitted with lights etc??
also was she wearing dark clothing or light florecent clothing??

Tony

Lunchie

When you say "scooter" do you mean a moped type one or one of those stand on ones?

If proper moped then min age is 16. If one of those funny stand on ones, not sure if they're legally allowed on the road?

Either way the girl may not have insurance, but all the same its a good thing she wasn't injured!

Lunchie

pnebbs

In guernsy you can drive scooters (small motorbikes from 14 years old)

Paul

Lunchie

Ah- Guernsey. Strange place - must be the French influence

TBMeech

You have to be 16 here tho to ride a moped / scooter

Toerag

Ok, to answer your questions:-
She was wearing the standard 15yr old female moped rider clothing of trainers, black 'flarey' trousers and a helly hansen jacket(white/blue).
Whether she had insurance/license or not doesn't bother me, cos she gets done if she doesn't have any. 3rd party is minimum legal requirement over here.
I don't know any of her details as the police said they'd take care of it, and all involved were cold and wet and wanted to go home! To be honest, I doubt if the girl herself would be bothered, but I bet her dad is of the 'it wasn't your fault love, we'll make the man pay' frame of mind. I think I'll get a quote from my dealer for the new parts and see if it's worth it. I assume that the insurance will contact me should she try to make a claim off my insurance? Having looked at the bumper again in good daylight I think it would just be a respray job and new squirter, so if she doesn't claim then I don't think I'll bother, even though I don't have any excess. It'll only push up my premiums.
toerag

[Edited by Toerag - 1/21/2002 3:11:30 PM]

BaldyMan

Contact the police, asking for their advice on the matter of...
Legality of driving age, her insurance, blah blah.

If they took your details, they should have by law taken hers, and may have the witnesses....

Worth asking for it, if they have it...

From there you could contact the girl...

If she is (not old enough to be on the road) speak to her father, see what arrangements you can come too, don't be pushed around if they say it was your fault, at the end of the day she should not have been on the road.

Toerag

Guys, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick! I don't think the girl was too young to ride a moped, and if she was, then I will claim (serves her right!). The police will definately have her details, but I'm not sure about the witnesses. Both the girl and I were fairly shook up, and as neither of us were hurt we just wanted to go home. I am concerned that she (her dad!) may now try to claim off my insurance and I would have no defence. As far as I'm concerned the accident was a 50/50 unless she didn't have her lights on (which is possible, but I didn't think to check at the time.), then it's her fault. I'll give the cops a call to see if they have any contact details for the witness.
Thanks for the support!

juan

can't really see how it could have been her fault unless she had no lights on. She had right of way and couldn't have been speeding as those things max out at 30ish.

If they claim against you and you haven't told your insurance co they (ins co) might not be best pleased and leave you to settle it yourself which could cost?

Cops know there was an accident.

possibly worth getting legal advice?

Brendan Hughes

Trust no-one.

I was passenger when my ex drove into the back of an old 205 van (yup, too close and not paying attention ) at low speed. We looked around, front of her astra was a bit crumpled, his wasn't touched. He smiled patronisingly (she WAS pretty), said "don't worry about it love", but exchanged insurance details as she'd only just passed her test and so it was The Right Thing To Do.

3 weeks later, he claims for 200 quid's worth of new bumper . *******.

Toerag

I'm going to claim, I hadn't noticed a dent in edge of the bonnet! Doh! I'll still contact the police about the witness to see if she had her lights on, as it's the only way I'll get rid of my share of the blame.
Thanks again!
Toerag

Reffro

I never thought a responsible lot would stoop this low.

Its all very simple, your man has pulled out in front of a another vehicle when he didn't have right of way, and caused the driver/rider to have an accident. End of story. Its not hard to see where the blame falls.

I get fed up of car drivers who don't pay attention trying to push the blame on bikers. And as has been said, a moped isn't going to charge round a blind corner at the speed of light.

Take your medecine, cough up for whatever comes your way, and think yourself lucky she didn't break her neck when she fell off.

Smiler

Let me get this right.

You're coming out of a sidestreet, and someone who has right of way hits you, and you think they are to blame....

Whether or not you could see because it is a bad junction has little to do with it. You had to give way and you didn't. Full stop.

JASON H

Try to out of court settlement
its going to cost 150 tops of
which she,l be very happy to
get back on road in hi
insight of course any way
all the best Jason..

Toerag

I'm not trying to say it was her fault, UNLESS she didn't have her lights on!! Due to the nature of the junction anyone coming from the right on any sort of bike riding close to the side of the road isn't seen until about 3 car lengths away due to the curve of the road and a 4ft high wall. In the dark and wet I just didn't have a chance of seeing her until it was too late. I had literally only pulled out 1/2 a car length and was just about stopped when she hit me. She had nowhere to go, and no time to stop. She should have been able to see me and stop even though I couldn't see her, so perhaps she was going too fast?

Lunchie

I hope you wouldn't have the same attitude if she was seriuosly injured.

If it was dark I find hard to believe that someone would go round narrow lanes on a scooter without lights on. No way you can prove if she was going to fast...

Sorry- but the more I read this thread, the more I think you should just face the consequences. Or maybe you could try and have a go at the Council for the state of the junction...?

juan

gotta agree with reffro.

If she's 15 anything she's riding shouldn't be capable of going 'too fast'!!

You might be able to claim off your insurance co for your own damage but doubt you would have any chance of claiming off her and could just pee her / her Dad off and encourage them to take you to the cleaners.

Just be thankful you didn't injure / kill her

Toerag

Lunchie,
it was in a built up area and I have often seen drivers of all sorts of vehicles driving without their lights on, especially when they've just filled up with fuel on a well lit forecourt. Also those scooters will do 60mph when deresricted, which isn't against the law over here. (There's no way she was doing 60 though). Many bad junctions here have big mirrors on poles to allow you to see what's coming, but residents in the areas complain that motorists can see into their front rooms and that they have no privacy
I suggest that you re-read my 1st post to see what I was wanting to find out, ie. should I claim or not seeing as I will have to put the accident on my form next renewal, and will my premiums go up if I've had an accident without claiming? I have since decided that I will claim as the damage was worse than I 1st thought, all that remains is to check whether the girl had her lights on or not to decide who I claim off.
regards, Toerag