Elise to P1/RB5
20 January 2002, 10:32 AM
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Have had an Elise now for 3 years and have had fantastic fun, but as I am running this and a Peugeot 306XSI. Looking for a change to one car and have test driven a couple of P1's which are totally awesome cars.
Have had the dealer chat on them but would appreciate some advice from you guys before taking the plunge!!
1. I know the running costs in terms of insurance/mpg will be higher that the Elise but is servicing etc expensive? What is tyre wear like?
2. Are there any issues with any of the mechanicals failing and being expensive to replace?
3. Are they targets for vandalism/nicking. The Elise had no vandalism issues but does the P1 suffer?
4. The car I am looking at is a 10,000 miler. Is depreciation a major issue on these cars.
5. Anything else I ought to know before getting the cheque book put out!
Thanks
Jeremy
Have had the dealer chat on them but would appreciate some advice from you guys before taking the plunge!!
1. I know the running costs in terms of insurance/mpg will be higher that the Elise but is servicing etc expensive? What is tyre wear like?
2. Are there any issues with any of the mechanicals failing and being expensive to replace?
3. Are they targets for vandalism/nicking. The Elise had no vandalism issues but does the P1 suffer?
4. The car I am looking at is a 10,000 miler. Is depreciation a major issue on these cars.
5. Anything else I ought to know before getting the cheque book put out!
Thanks
Jeremy
20 January 2002, 11:26 AM
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Hi Jeremy,
Im in a similar position and looking to get a 10,000 miler. The first years depriciation has been hard on P1's but thats an advantage to me and you the 2nd hand buyers as we get a car that first cost £31k for around the £24k mark. I really dont know why they lost so much money except maybe that it is old shape (better IMHO) or that since then the UK300 and STi UK have come out (although depriciation was bad before these 2 AFAIK). The 22b is old shape and still fetches good money although they are very ltd in numbers so that helps.
Demand certainly is not low for them - I was looking at an X reg 9000 miler at a Surrey Subaru Dealership this week but it was sold after 2 days of being advertised after a 4 way battle between customers. Admittedly it was priced well at £23,950.
From what Ive seen of servicing costs the only real issues are tyres and brake pads. Decent tyres on all corners is the best part of £400. Subaru servicing on the P1 appears to be cheaper than that of my nissan primera for the figures Ive seen.
Fuel is another consideration - most run theirs on SUL minimum - Shell Optimax preferred - this is around 4-5p more per litre than regular. MPG figures tend to be low 20's although most owners say that if u control the right foot and stay under 3k rpm that u can achieve high 20's quite easily.
Nickability is a key factor - most Imprezas are high on the insurance and a lot of companies want a tracker device fitted as standard (P1's come with RAC Trackstart installed so not too much of a problem - u may have to renew the monthly subscription if the previous owner didnt use it). However the P1 is that much more on top considering its value, desirability and the fact it stands out like a sore thumb. Quotes Ive been getting are around £1,200 with me being 25, 5 years NCB, no points.
Anyway that should be enough to get you started. Im sure the resident P1 owners will reply shortly.
Im in a similar position and looking to get a 10,000 miler. The first years depriciation has been hard on P1's but thats an advantage to me and you the 2nd hand buyers as we get a car that first cost £31k for around the £24k mark. I really dont know why they lost so much money except maybe that it is old shape (better IMHO) or that since then the UK300 and STi UK have come out (although depriciation was bad before these 2 AFAIK). The 22b is old shape and still fetches good money although they are very ltd in numbers so that helps.
Demand certainly is not low for them - I was looking at an X reg 9000 miler at a Surrey Subaru Dealership this week but it was sold after 2 days of being advertised after a 4 way battle between customers. Admittedly it was priced well at £23,950.
From what Ive seen of servicing costs the only real issues are tyres and brake pads. Decent tyres on all corners is the best part of £400. Subaru servicing on the P1 appears to be cheaper than that of my nissan primera for the figures Ive seen.
Fuel is another consideration - most run theirs on SUL minimum - Shell Optimax preferred - this is around 4-5p more per litre than regular. MPG figures tend to be low 20's although most owners say that if u control the right foot and stay under 3k rpm that u can achieve high 20's quite easily.
Nickability is a key factor - most Imprezas are high on the insurance and a lot of companies want a tracker device fitted as standard (P1's come with RAC Trackstart installed so not too much of a problem - u may have to renew the monthly subscription if the previous owner didnt use it). However the P1 is that much more on top considering its value, desirability and the fact it stands out like a sore thumb. Quotes Ive been getting are around £1,200 with me being 25, 5 years NCB, no points.
Anyway that should be enough to get you started. Im sure the resident P1 owners will reply shortly.
20 January 2002, 11:48 AM
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Jeremy ,
I ran an elise for 2 years and now have a P1. Obviously very different cars, but a wise upgrade as I discovered the joys of 5 seats and a boot! Running costs to date are fine. It does use petrol at an alarming rate if you are used to the elise 45mpg+, but this is mainly because you put your foot down all the time.
Tyre wear - depends how you drive it. Ask Chris P1 about heat bubbles on the outer edges (Lunatic!). To date nothing has failed although I really do need to upgrade the brakes, as the std ones aren't quite sufficient imo. I park in central London on the street and have had no trouble with car crime (touch wood).
The only negative I have with this car is that you feel like a bit of a boy racer/M*x powerhead which is an image I don't really like, but can live with as the car is so much fun.
I ran an elise for 2 years and now have a P1. Obviously very different cars, but a wise upgrade as I discovered the joys of 5 seats and a boot! Running costs to date are fine. It does use petrol at an alarming rate if you are used to the elise 45mpg+, but this is mainly because you put your foot down all the time.
Tyre wear - depends how you drive it. Ask Chris P1 about heat bubbles on the outer edges (Lunatic!). To date nothing has failed although I really do need to upgrade the brakes, as the std ones aren't quite sufficient imo. I park in central London on the street and have had no trouble with car crime (touch wood).
The only negative I have with this car is that you feel like a bit of a boy racer/M*x powerhead which is an image I don't really like, but can live with as the car is so much fun.
20 January 2002, 12:53 PM
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The P1s lost so much money in the first year for numerous reasons, not the least of which that they were overpriced in the first place, released at an odd point in the model's history, and supply outstripped demand. They are now priced more realistically, a good few thousand more than the model on which they are based, the Sti5 Type R (which is of course a VERY different car).
I have never owned one, but have had three stis, and I am sure you will be well impressed with the performance. Depending on what you are looking for, do not overlook the Stis, the Type Rs are quicker than the P1, and somewhat harder edged which may or may not appeal to you. I am sure someone will list you the pros and cons of buying an import, but I have found owning four (including an Evo) no more stressful than any other car, apart from the issue of petrol (now thankfully solved by Shell Optimax at 77p a litre in London
)
You will love the car whatever.
Mike
I have never owned one, but have had three stis, and I am sure you will be well impressed with the performance. Depending on what you are looking for, do not overlook the Stis, the Type Rs are quicker than the P1, and somewhat harder edged which may or may not appeal to you. I am sure someone will list you the pros and cons of buying an import, but I have found owning four (including an Evo) no more stressful than any other car, apart from the issue of petrol (now thankfully solved by Shell Optimax at 77p a litre in London
)You will love the car whatever.
Mike
20 January 2002, 01:39 PM
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Thanks for that guys......
Basically as you say its the fun factor wet or dry along with the practicality that is needed. The Elise is great but it is also garaged away from my flat so does not get as much use as it should. I have a good insurance record and have a quote of £1150 for a P1 which looks ok for the performance you are getting.
Jonathan - you guessed right it is Adams that I am talking to. The car has a price on the bonnet of £29,995 ! but they were talking around the £28,000. I really just listened as I needed to firm up the price on the Elise. From the comments and having looked through AutoCar it sounds as though that is well overpriced!
Anyone got any ideas about which are the other dealers I should be talking to. My Lotus is from Bell and Colvill, but not sure if anyone has any experience with their Subaru side.
What do the reckon the price should be ....£25K
Jeremy
Basically as you say its the fun factor wet or dry along with the practicality that is needed. The Elise is great but it is also garaged away from my flat so does not get as much use as it should. I have a good insurance record and have a quote of £1150 for a P1 which looks ok for the performance you are getting.
Jonathan - you guessed right it is Adams that I am talking to. The car has a price on the bonnet of £29,995 ! but they were talking around the £28,000. I really just listened as I needed to firm up the price on the Elise. From the comments and having looked through AutoCar it sounds as though that is well overpriced!
Anyone got any ideas about which are the other dealers I should be talking to. My Lotus is from Bell and Colvill, but not sure if anyone has any experience with their Subaru side.
What do the reckon the price should be ....£25K
Jeremy
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20 January 2002, 03:07 PM
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The only way you should be paying £28k for a P1 is if its got sub 1k on the clock and is loaded with goodies like 18" OZ wheels, Alcon/Prodive Brake Upgrades, bodykit additions, exhaust upgrades etc.
Edited cos Ive just looked on the Subaru site and seen the P1 at Adams for £29,995. OMG - its got 9,400 on it and was registered in Sept 2000, also no apparent upgrades other than a personal reg (which you could get from DVLA for less than £500). Check other cars of identical specs for £24-25k. Hence why its been for sale for quite a few months now. Steer clear unless they knock a few grand of the asking price IMHO.
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/20/2002 3:14:56 PM]
Edited cos Ive just looked on the Subaru site and seen the P1 at Adams for £29,995. OMG - its got 9,400 on it and was registered in Sept 2000, also no apparent upgrades other than a personal reg (which you could get from DVLA for less than £500). Check other cars of identical specs for £24-25k. Hence why its been for sale for quite a few months now. Steer clear unless they knock a few grand of the asking price IMHO.
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/20/2002 3:14:56 PM]
20 January 2002, 03:21 PM
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Some of the P1's were sold new for £27k last year, there are now second hand ones in the dealer network from £19995 (49k miles). £25k should buy you an amazing car... And £28k should by you something with every option and no miles. Check the www.subaru.co.uk for the second hand cars at uk dealers.
Jon
Jon
20 January 2002, 03:38 PM
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Jeremy
Have you had a go in the new shape yet. If not you should ask for a test drive of my old UK300 PPP which is on their forecourt for sale. Then think about that car with another 30bhp, with an option to get another 30bhp ontop. Adams should have their STI demo shortly
Jonathan
Have you had a go in the new shape yet. If not you should ask for a test drive of my old UK300 PPP which is on their forecourt for sale. Then think about that car with another 30bhp, with an option to get another 30bhp ontop. Adams should have their STI demo shortly
Jonathan
20 January 2002, 04:07 PM
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Jeremy discs are about 20-25k miles, not sure on pads yet.
And i wouldnt bother with a new shape at all, its not quicker and it doesnt look better imho. Why take the 1st year's loss for no reason and more 'refined' handling? Pay 25k and try and get one with prodrive brake upgrade since that saves you 1500 quid and is well worth having
And i wouldnt bother with a new shape at all, its not quicker and it doesnt look better imho. Why take the 1st year's loss for no reason and more 'refined' handling? Pay 25k and try and get one with prodrive brake upgrade since that saves you 1500 quid and is well worth having
20 January 2002, 05:15 PM
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Jonathan - Saw your UK 300 there yesterday and it looked good....still prefer the old shape to be honest but is a personal thing. Just like I prefer my shape Elise to the new one!!!
Have had a look at the Subaru UK web site and had a chance to look at other prices....seems to be a bit of a spread but look like £25K would get you a good one........are there any questions particular to the cars that I should be asking?
Will have to make some call tomorrow!
Cheers
Have had a look at the Subaru UK web site and had a chance to look at other prices....seems to be a bit of a spread but look like £25K would get you a good one........are there any questions particular to the cars that I should be asking?
Will have to make some call tomorrow!
Cheers
20 January 2002, 09:54 PM
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Hi,
I agree dont pay more that 25k for a P1 unless its fully loaded (WR Sport bits) and sub 5k miles.
Also I test drove a RB5 WR Sport, and its very nice, not a lot different spec wise but costs less, also more exclusive (but not as nice looking in my opinion)
The joy of a scooby over an Elise (which I have driven and my mate owns) is that you drive a great car every day, and also you you actually look forward to damp conditions and snow. The downside is that I have to drive my mates everywahere when we go out cos they all have 2 seaters (gits).
I still want an Elsie one day, but only when I can have a company car as well (and a fast one at that!)
Enjoy your elise/scooby whatever happens, they are both great!
I agree dont pay more that 25k for a P1 unless its fully loaded (WR Sport bits) and sub 5k miles.
Also I test drove a RB5 WR Sport, and its very nice, not a lot different spec wise but costs less, also more exclusive (but not as nice looking in my opinion)
The joy of a scooby over an Elise (which I have driven and my mate owns) is that you drive a great car every day, and also you you actually look forward to damp conditions and snow. The downside is that I have to drive my mates everywahere when we go out cos they all have 2 seaters (gits).
I still want an Elsie one day, but only when I can have a company car as well (and a fast one at that!)
Enjoy your elise/scooby whatever happens, they are both great!
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