WRX v BMW 330 CSi ?
17 January 2002, 07:31 PM
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BMW drivers always think they have a bigger willie than everyone else, or the ones (especially one at work 320, I think it is him who pi$$es on the toilet floor and then complanis that the pi$$er is leaking) I know. (No offence to BMW drivers by the way just a wee bit banter)
Bogie
PS WRX has a bigger willie than 330
Bogie
PS WRX has a bigger willie than 330
)
17 January 2002, 08:06 PM
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330 Ci is a tad slower than a standard WRX 0-60 but is only 1.4 secs or so behind the M3 and a better buy IMHO - esp the M-Sports edition. Once it gets going though, the 3 litre V6 should pull it past the scoob.
My mate just imported a brand new 330 Ci Sport and Its a cracking motor thats for sure - especially when it cost a tad over £26k with full leather, 18" M sports alloys, harmon kardon audio etc.
My mate just imported a brand new 330 Ci Sport and Its a cracking motor thats for sure - especially when it cost a tad over £26k with full leather, 18" M sports alloys, harmon kardon audio etc.
17 January 2002, 08:30 PM
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Where did he get the 330 for that price??
Anyway, surely one of the best indicators is the 30 to 70 time...
Autocar quotes the 330Ci as 6.1 secs, WRX '01 as 5.8. (and my old Corrado VR6 as 5.7!!!)
Anyway, surely one of the best indicators is the 30 to 70 time...
Autocar quotes the 330Ci as 6.1 secs, WRX '01 as 5.8. (and my old Corrado VR6 as 5.7!!!)
17 January 2002, 08:33 PM
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given the choice at the same money the beemer. However given the opitions ticked on most 330ci the beemer would be around 10k dearer! Then the new generation would be the car of choice.
Matthew
Matthew
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17 January 2002, 09:06 PM
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hehehe... my (almost) ideal thread!
Personal car: MY01 WRX Wagon (standard, soon to be PPP'd)
Work car: BMW 330D Touring
Results over 15,000 miles or so:
In gear acceleration (overtaking), the BM is staggering. Well, what would you expect with more torque than an M3??
Probably slightly quicker than the Scoob, but you have to be in the right gear at the right speed, on boost.
Twisty A-roads in the wet: Scoob is far quicker.
Better traction, more predictable handling; coax hard, and you powerslide rather than oversteer in the BM.
One myth is fuel economy. Forget the official figures, I rarely ever see over 32mpg in the beemer.
Verdict: If you're in the market for a 330 petrol, you simply have to try the diesel as well. It's utterly brilliant.
If you want a scoob, nothing else will do anyway.
Personal car: MY01 WRX Wagon (standard, soon to be PPP'd)
Work car: BMW 330D Touring
Results over 15,000 miles or so:
In gear acceleration (overtaking), the BM is staggering. Well, what would you expect with more torque than an M3??
Probably slightly quicker than the Scoob, but you have to be in the right gear at the right speed, on boost.
Twisty A-roads in the wet: Scoob is far quicker.
Better traction, more predictable handling; coax hard, and you powerslide rather than oversteer in the BM.
One myth is fuel economy. Forget the official figures, I rarely ever see over 32mpg in the beemer.
Verdict: If you're in the market for a 330 petrol, you simply have to try the diesel as well. It's utterly brilliant.
If you want a scoob, nothing else will do anyway.
18 January 2002, 02:05 AM
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BMW drivers - especially the 318i brigade and the Z3 lot - most of them know nothing whatsoever about cars. They only bought the car because it looked nice and was a nice colour. Ask most of them what a scooby is - and most of them will have never heard of them.
18 January 2002, 07:26 AM
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That maybe slightly true but is a bit of a generalisation. Anyone buys a 330 or similar is buying a quality motor. I look at my mates 330 Ci and see a very sexy looking car indeed. If I wasnt going to buy a P1 I would probably buy one myself. This is purely down to my age and the fact that I want something raw and extremely rewarding to drive whilst I have the chance.
18 January 2002, 08:22 AM
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eyeMAJIC - 32mpg 
you're doing something wrong then I have a 330d touring auto and get an average 550 miles per tank (42mpg), have had as high as 640 - 48mpg Are you just believing the trip computer? they arn't accurate when I got 640 out of a tank, the computer said I had only averaged 42mpg 
Back the the point, once on the move, a 330i will give a std WRX a *very* hard time. When my MY99 was 'just' a PPP the 330i was released and a neighbour had one for a day on trial. On a dry dual carriageway it was dead level from 20mph upto *ahem* mph - and if anything above 70-ish, the 330i started to pull away.
Don't forget the 330i has 15bhp more than the WRX (and similar torque advantage), greater response through a normally aspirated engine, less tranmission losses (RWD vs AWD) and non 'shaped like a brick' aerodynamics.
Granted, bang per buck the Scooby has it
[Edited by GaryC - 1/18/2002 8:25:04 AM]
you're doing something wrong then I have a 330d touring auto and get an average 550 miles per tank (42mpg), have had as high as 640 - 48mpg Are you just believing the trip computer? they arn't accurate when I got 640 out of a tank, the computer said I had only averaged 42mpg Back the the point, once on the move, a 330i will give a std WRX a *very* hard time. When my MY99 was 'just' a PPP the 330i was released and a neighbour had one for a day on trial. On a dry dual carriageway it was dead level from 20mph upto *ahem* mph - and if anything above 70-ish, the 330i started to pull away.
Don't forget the 330i has 15bhp more than the WRX (and similar torque advantage), greater response through a normally aspirated engine, less tranmission losses (RWD vs AWD) and non 'shaped like a brick' aerodynamics.
Granted, bang per buck the Scooby has it
[Edited by GaryC - 1/18/2002 8:25:04 AM]
18 January 2002, 08:32 AM
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Just my 10p worth...
I've (just) sold my UK94 which was modified quite a bit, boosting to 1.3bar via APEXI boost and fuel controllers. TD05H turbo, de-cat SS exhaustturbo back. Very quick, but quite laggy. Once on boost it went "quite" well.
Anyway I've now gone and bought a 328i coupe...sshhhhh don't tell anyone. The performance of the 328 is a disappointment to be honest. I didn't realise just how quick the Scoob was especially cross country in the Yorks Dales in the wet. Yes the acceleration of the BMW is VERY smooth and its well screwed together and yes the lights work.... BUT....
Traction control in the BMW flashes all the time in 2nd gear in the wet. You can't stomp on the throttle mid bend and scream out with exhaust growling to the flat 4 note.
So it's time to get saving my pennies again and look at something I'll enjoy driving...
BMW ~ the ultimate driving machine.... yeah right... whatever....
I've (just) sold my UK94 which was modified quite a bit, boosting to 1.3bar via APEXI boost and fuel controllers. TD05H turbo, de-cat SS exhaustturbo back. Very quick, but quite laggy. Once on boost it went "quite" well.
Anyway I've now gone and bought a 328i coupe...sshhhhh don't tell anyone
. The performance of the 328 is a disappointment to be honest. I didn't realise just how quick the Scoob was especially cross country in the Yorks Dales in the wet. Yes the acceleration of the BMW is VERY smooth and its well screwed together and yes the lights work.... BUT....Traction control in the BMW flashes all the time in 2nd gear in the wet. You can't stomp on the throttle mid bend and scream out with exhaust growling to the flat 4 note.
So it's time to get saving my pennies again and look at something I'll enjoy driving...
BMW ~ the ultimate driving machine.... yeah right... whatever....
18 January 2002, 09:04 AM
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Oops - yeah Gary C - my bad.
Wilf - thats why you import one. And whats wrong with Sony - Ive got a Sony Amp on my Hi-Fi and its blinding for the money. Nobody buys Sony Hi-Fi for the name as they are at the low end of the market.
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/18/2002 9:06:58 AM]
Wilf - thats why you import one. And whats wrong with Sony - Ive got a Sony Amp on my Hi-Fi and its blinding for the money. Nobody buys Sony Hi-Fi for the name as they are at the low end of the market.
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/18/2002 9:06:58 AM]
18 January 2002, 09:18 AM
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BMW in a dry climate - top motor.
In the UK with our weather, and roads, Scoobies offer increased safety and more usable performance.
IMHO BMW's are def superior quality, but you pay a huge premium for it = not worth it to me.
I smile at every rear wheel drive car I go past stuck in the snow. There a guy with an M5 stays round the coener from me, and he loves to tailgate me, trying to get me to race. I drive at sensible speeds, until we hit a little back road, which I only take if it's wet or snowy. Needless to say, without exceeding the speed limit or trying hard, he cant keep his car pointing the right way - so dissapears behind me. In the dry I wouldnt entertain him, he's got much more power, and is a complete nutter.
What use is his 370bhp, if he cant get it down about 50% of the time when road conditions dictate.
In the UK with our weather, and roads, Scoobies offer increased safety and more usable performance.
IMHO BMW's are def superior quality, but you pay a huge premium for it = not worth it to me.
I smile at every rear wheel drive car I go past stuck in the snow. There a guy with an M5 stays round the coener from me, and he loves to tailgate me, trying to get me to race. I drive at sensible speeds, until we hit a little back road, which I only take if it's wet or snowy. Needless to say, without exceeding the speed limit or trying hard, he cant keep his car pointing the right way - so dissapears behind me. In the dry I wouldnt entertain him, he's got much more power, and is a complete nutter.
What use is his 370bhp, if he cant get it down about 50% of the time when road conditions dictate.
18 January 2002, 09:46 AM
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Mate has just bought an X-Type and it is pretty impressive and in the similar league to the 330CSi (3.0 V6 Sport)... it is very confortable and looks the business... but it is not like a Scooby to drive.. straight line like the BMW it is similar accelleration but that is not what the Scooby is all about is it.
It is the same with the Cossie lot, really nice cars (although some over the top) especially for there age, but sorry the Scooby from A to B is so good all round. Get some decent twisties or a bit of rain and the Scooby is the far quicker and safer car to drive IMHO.
Depends what you want.. if you want something with a bit of luxury then the Jag or BMW wins hands down, they are a different type of car but try going from A to B quick and you need to Scooby... but a 330 on the track and you'll see what I mean, it'll be good compared to most but not in the same league as the Scooby.
It is like comparing a Fireblade with a F1 car..... because they both accellerate at a similar rate... okay perhaps I am being extreme...
Depends what you want.
It is the same with the Cossie lot, really nice cars (although some over the top) especially for there age, but sorry the Scooby from A to B is so good all round. Get some decent twisties or a bit of rain and the Scooby is the far quicker and safer car to drive IMHO.
Depends what you want.. if you want something with a bit of luxury then the Jag or BMW wins hands down, they are a different type of car but try going from A to B quick and you need to Scooby... but a 330 on the track and you'll see what I mean, it'll be good compared to most but not in the same league as the Scooby.
It is like comparing a Fireblade with a F1 car..... because they both accellerate at a similar rate... okay perhaps I am being extreme...
Depends what you want.
18 January 2002, 10:03 AM
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Having replaced my MY98 a few weeks ago with a 330ci I pretty much agree with Jolly Green.
Yes the BM is not much slower in a straight line but throw in a few twisties and it's going to get left behind. If its wet, it'll be sitting there blinking its traction control light at you while the Scoob has gone as someone pointed out earlier.
Whenever I drove the Subaru it demanded to be driven in a press on manner. The BMW demands to be driven smoothly. Basically its just a more grown up car. I'm certainly calmer when I drive it about than I was in the Subaru and I certainly drive it slower as well.
Anyway the original point was someone claiming that a BMW 330 would leave a WRX for dead - absolutely no chance at all.
Marc
Yes the BM is not much slower in a straight line but throw in a few twisties and it's going to get left behind. If its wet, it'll be sitting there blinking its traction control light at you while the Scoob has gone as someone pointed out earlier.
Whenever I drove the Subaru it demanded to be driven in a press on manner. The BMW demands to be driven smoothly. Basically its just a more grown up car. I'm certainly calmer when I drive it about than I was in the Subaru and I certainly drive it slower as well.
Anyway the original point was someone claiming that a BMW 330 would leave a WRX for dead - absolutely no chance at all.
Marc
18 January 2002, 10:24 AM
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[/b] The BMW demands to be driven smoothly. Basically its just a more grown up car. I'm certainly calmer when I drive it about than I was in the Subaru and I certainly drive it slower as well.
[/b]
Yes very true. I certainly drive my 328 much slower than the Scoob, to the GF's amazement that I can be grown up and sensible
[/b]
Yes very true. I certainly drive my 328 much slower than the Scoob, to the GF's amazement that I can be grown up and sensible
18 January 2002, 10:39 AM
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I have had a P1 for 10 months and would be loathed to part with it although i was spotted at a Bmw dealer on wednesday enquiring about the lead time on a M3 or 330ci sport. I guess as i reach nearly 30 then a more refined car awaits, Although the dealer was not very helpfull.
18 January 2002, 10:46 AM
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From 20mph, in a straight line, my brother's 330 Csi is as quick as my un-modded MY99, without a doubt. If not quicker. Off a standing start to 60, it would probably be advantage Scoob.
In the wet, I'm sure it would be different as the Scoob's traction is so much better (haven't had the chance to check it out).
BTW, howcome the BMW was sooo much quicker to 60 than the Jag in Autocar a couple of weeks back? They weigh within about 20kg of each other, have virtually identical power, and the Jag's got 4WD? The BMW made 5.9, the Jag about 7.2
In the wet, I'm sure it would be different as the Scoob's traction is so much better (haven't had the chance to check it out).
BTW, howcome the BMW was sooo much quicker to 60 than the Jag in Autocar a couple of weeks back? They weigh within about 20kg of each other, have virtually identical power, and the Jag's got 4WD? The BMW made 5.9, the Jag about 7.2
18 January 2002, 12:45 PM
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I have a 330ci sport, month old, manual.
and yes it would leave the scooby more so up the top end.....and the muppet who said we buy for the name well thats partly true but they dont call it the ultimate driving machine for nothing, and with no turbo lag its wonderful. This car handles very well and suits its purpose -New Business company car....the car says alot....a scooby would be unsuitable in this situation
The 172 owner, i have one...which is used for track use mainly...it would not keep up with all the variables the 330 offers....torque, straight 6, and a engine note to die for..
I am currently looking at the sti to replace the clio.....but everyone i have spoken to said "ohh council estate car" dont like the look.....but hey they dont understand the power thing.
as always
imo
and yes it would leave the scooby more so up the top end.....and the muppet who said we buy for the name well thats partly true but they dont call it the ultimate driving machine for nothing, and with no turbo lag its wonderful. This car handles very well and suits its purpose -New Business company car....the car says alot....a scooby would be unsuitable in this situation
The 172 owner, i have one...which is used for track use mainly...it would not keep up with all the variables the 330 offers....torque, straight 6, and a engine note to die for..
I am currently looking at the sti to replace the clio.....but everyone i have spoken to said "ohh council estate car" dont like the look.....but hey they dont understand the power thing.
as always
imo
18 January 2002, 01:10 PM
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According to Evo magazine:
0-60 0-100 60-100 (calculated)
330i 5.9 17.0 11.1
MY99 5.4 14.6 9.2
MY01 6.0 18.3 12.3
172 6.6 18.2 11.6
Every increment in every gear between 50 and 100mph is quicker in the MY99 than the 330i according to all the tests I have seen, below there if you are in too high a gear the 330i wins. The MY99 is >0.5s quicker 30-70 through the gears, and 60-100 of 1.9 secs quicker is quite convincing. I suspect the 330i claws back an advantage at 120+.
Scooby can easily be modded to 250-280bhp for well under £1000 depending on what RR you believe (exhaust and boost controller).
I love the 330i it does so many things well if not quite modded scooby levels of traction and pace, and in the real world is not THAT much slower than an old shape unmodded Scooby. My neighbours 330i is an auto Touring - I may offer to buy it off him when he is done with it (it is always immaculate), but not as a Scooby replacement- would sit next to an Evo 7 in my ideal but sane garage. I would choose a 330i over a WRX certainly. Given that the new STi weighs about the same as a 330i and has only 31 bhp more but AWD and quite big lag, a 330i may surprise a few as it does some UK old shape Scoobies, given that the STi UK is not significantly quicker than a MY99.
[Edited by john banks - 1/18/2002 1:14:01 PM]
0-60 0-100 60-100 (calculated)
330i 5.9 17.0 11.1
MY99 5.4 14.6 9.2
MY01 6.0 18.3 12.3
172 6.6 18.2 11.6
Every increment in every gear between 50 and 100mph is quicker in the MY99 than the 330i according to all the tests I have seen, below there if you are in too high a gear the 330i wins. The MY99 is >0.5s quicker 30-70 through the gears, and 60-100 of 1.9 secs quicker is quite convincing. I suspect the 330i claws back an advantage at 120+.
Scooby can easily be modded to 250-280bhp for well under £1000 depending on what RR you believe (exhaust and boost controller).
I love the 330i it does so many things well if not quite modded scooby levels of traction and pace, and in the real world is not THAT much slower than an old shape unmodded Scooby. My neighbours 330i is an auto Touring - I may offer to buy it off him when he is done with it (it is always immaculate), but not as a Scooby replacement- would sit next to an Evo 7 in my ideal but sane garage. I would choose a 330i over a WRX certainly. Given that the new STi weighs about the same as a 330i and has only 31 bhp more but AWD and quite big lag, a 330i may surprise a few as it does some UK old shape Scoobies, given that the STi UK is not significantly quicker than a MY99.
[Edited by john banks - 1/18/2002 1:14:01 PM]
18 January 2002, 01:34 PM
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from the figures above then it would appear that the 330i IS quicker than a standard scoob now?
granted not on wet twisty roads though.
personally I think the coupes look stunning
granted not on wet twisty roads though.
personally I think the coupes look stunning
18 January 2002, 01:49 PM
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How can you say from the above figures the bmw IS quicker, they are stairing us in the face, and it clearly shows the bmw IS NOT quicker?
am i going mad or have numbers completely lost their meaning?
am i going mad or have numbers completely lost their meaning?
18 January 2002, 02:01 PM
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Evo's MY01 WRX was much slower than Autocar's, which managed 0-100 in 16.1s (I think). But Evo got slightly better figures out of the 330i. They're about the same, it seems - a cold day will make the difference between the WRX beating the BMW or not, I'd imagine.
But as for either one pulling away from the other - not at reasonably sane UK speeds.
But as for either one pulling away from the other - not at reasonably sane UK speeds.
18 January 2002, 02:23 PM
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catflap,
are you looking aty the figures for the current scoob, or the old one?
I am going on the latest scoob which is slower according to those figures (or am I mistaken in assuming MY01 is not the latest scoob? Never did know what the MY sttod for unless its manufactured year. why not just say 2001 if so?)
[Edited by juan - 1/18/2002 2:24:54 PM]
are you looking aty the figures for the current scoob, or the old one?
I am going on the latest scoob which is slower according to those figures (or am I mistaken in assuming MY01 is not the latest scoob? Never did know what the MY sttod for unless its manufactured year. why not just say 2001 if so?)
[Edited by juan - 1/18/2002 2:24:54 PM]