chris1scouser

Recently i was pulled over by the police, i was charged with careless driving.
i undertook a car on the A82(friars Bridge, Inverness) on the approach to a roundabout, the policeman said it was my speed that attracted their attention and if i'd have been closer to the roundabout he wouldn't have charged me. he asked me why i was speeding i replied i didn't think i was.
he submitted his report to the procurator fiscal and i'm awaiting the legal correspondence.
i stand to have greatly enlarged insurance premiums if i am prosecuted for this, i could get up to nine points. i think the policeman was showing off a bit to his female colleague. i passed my test in 2002 and have had no convictions or misdemeanors in this period. i was additionally trained by my employer in hazard perception and driving skills. the first four years i averaged 45,000 miles per year. i see myself as a competent vehicle driver. the stretch of road is fairly busy at different times and there must be a very high percentage of drivers doing exactly the same as me. my alleged offence took place at 20.00 there were two cars on the one stretch of dual carraigeway one of them was me, visibilty was good and ther were no pedestrians in the area. do any of you have any advice for me please?

Mark/WRX

were you actually speeding?

so you pulled back in front of them then?

Kit B

U undertook someone on the run up to a roundabout !!!!!!!!
And you're on here saying the cop was showing off. ????

Eh.... Doing his job methinks. Take the rap.... you done wrong end of story

gallois

the impression i get is that you undertook cars that were slowing for a right turn at the roundabout whilst you were going left or straight on, if you did this whilst slowing down, then it is acceptable to pass queuing traffic on the outside lane, get a good solicitor. If you nipped from the outside lane, accelerated past them whilst still a fair distance from the roundabout, then you undertook them, so get a very good solicitor.

Mo_Patrick

Does he have a video of the incident?

Do you think its worth getting the advice of a solicitor? (might be worth it due to the amount of points your facing, plus he could argue it better for you due to the effect it might have on your job etc.)

Mo_Patrick

this not very helpful is it.

MaDaSS

If he deemed you to be undertaking, then by nature of that, you were driving carelessly so you can do nothing.
Get some proper advice other than on here Chris.
PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice is a start.

chris1scouser

there is a dispute about the speed on the bridge at the moment. so i can't say.what i can say is i was in a hurry, but i was by no means using excessive speed.
the bridge was upgraded from single (30 MPH in a built up area) to an A road dual carraigeway (70 MPH technically i think) a while back and wasn't re-classified with a speed limit for this so the speed limit is still unknown.
the police set a speed trap up and convicted hundreds of drivers for speeding on the bridge over a period of weeks. after approximately a year, all the convictions were quashed and points were removed from the drivers who gained them.
the two cars on the bridge were me and another hatchback the police were following at a distance. it was a panda car that pulled me with two beat coppers in it. there is no record of my speed only their intertpretation of my actions. there must be hundreds maybe thousands of drivers doing what i done every single day. hope i've clarified this for you thanks for replying Chris.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

if there are two then all they need to do is say they believed you to be speeding. why did you undertake? Was the other car slowing? was it indicating right? all these things support the legal argument that you were simply gaining position for the roundabout as was the other vehicle.

need a bit more info i'm afraid chap.

5t

chris1scouser

I never moved from the inside lane. i passed the other car on the approach to the roundabout the other car turned right after i had pulled out to go straight second exit. i

chris1scouser

Yes i do think the copper was showing off. undertaking while approaching a roundabout is acceptable. its easy to know which side your bread is buttered, if your not one your agianst them eh?

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

Seems ok to me that, how far from the roundabout were you???when you passed the first car?

How can you get done for speeding if there was no Vascar, video or road traffic police, i thought that two officer just saying you were speeding was abolished, but dont hold me to it though.(especially on a dual carriageway).

Hope you get it soeted, get a lawyer is your best bet.

Mac

chris1scouser

I think i'll seek legal advice. thanks nearly all of you, your input is appreciated. no thanks one of you, your input was biased and has been dis-regarded.

+Doc+

How can approaching an island faster than the car in a completely different lane be classed as undertaking?
You are both going different routes in different lanes.

chris1scouser

the policeman said if it had have been closer to the roundabout he would not have charged me. closer for me isn't a quantifiable distance. what is the distance from a roundabout when it becomes okay to undertake? is there a figure for this distance?
my argument is, if i am prosecuted then every other driver doing the same should be too. it must happen hundreds of times a day on that stretch, its up over a hill and around bends. its difficult to describe. the other driver knew i was there for sure, i'd been behind him/her for about 3/4 of a mile with my headlights on the roads were quiet no pedestrians very clear conditions. i can't afford 9 points it may lose me my job.

andythejock01wrx

How far you from the roundabout when you passed the other car Chris ?

Can't help wondering if this might ultimately not be pursued given the dubious nature of the alleged offence.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

No need for that mate

IMHO there needs to be an independant witness (not the Police) in order to charge someone with careless driving. If they don't have one (?) then stick to your guns (deny, deny, deny) & they'll not have a leg to stand on. The Police just make me

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

"There are decided cases that provide some guidance as to the driving that courts will regard as careless or inconsiderate and the following examples are typical of what we are likely to regard as careless driving:

overtaking on the inside;
driving inappropriately close to another vehicle;
inadvertently driving through a red light;
emerging from a side road into the path of another vehicle;
tuning a car radio;
using a hand-held mobile phone or other hand-held electronic equipment when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use;
selecting and lighting a cigarette or similar when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use."

They could prosecute '000s using the above

Taken from here:

The CPS : Prosecuting cases of bad driving

TX.

chris1scouser

i'd crested the the hill and was descending the other side, were i thought it safe to pass the vehicle on the inside. at a guess 200yds
to be honest i wasn't paying attention i was doing the whole sub-conscious driving thing. i was fully aware of everything around me but my relation to whereabouts i was on the road wasn't on the register. i drive that same stretch maybe five times somedays. i done what i used to do all the time.
there is a difference in my driving now where my moves where once assured, i am now hesitant and i'm unsure in certain cases. this experience has actually made me an uncertain driver.

scotthldr

Hi Chris,

I stay in Inverness also and know the road you are on about very well. It is a 30mph limit on it, the 30 limit starts at the Clydesdale Bank at the Kessock roundabout and continues through to Kilvean cemetery on the other side of town. What direction were you heading towards Telford St or Shore St? I for one have undertaken many vehicles on that stretch of road, how they can say that you undertaking is beyond me as there is 2 roundabouts within 250 - 300 meters of one another so you basically have to be in the correct lane as you come off the 1st roundabout ready for the next one. Unless they got you on speed gun for excessive speed or video for erratic driving I can't see how they can do you. You have pm as well mate.

millsy3

iTrader: (1)

since when has there been a slow and fast lane on a dual carriagway, good luck mate

chris1scouser

i come out the kwik fit area onto longman road into the left hand lane i stayed in the same lane from there over three roundabouts to kenneth street i never changed lane once i turned right into ross avenue to head home.
then starsky and hutch came into my rear view mirror lights on. the two of them exited their car and done the procedure on me, i then ended up sitting in the back of their motor for five mins or so.
thank f@ck they didn't search the car there is all kinds of junk in it, nothing illegal just junk. my PM is slow today nothing in the box yet. if it goes to court the scoob will be on here pistonheads and ebay, have to pay the lawyer won't i?

hardsy555

i find it impossible how they can do you for this, if your going in different dirrections. and for the record how many times when traffic is slowing on a motorway does the traffic on the inside **** past you, yet they dont nick all them do they.

chris1scouser

i hope not i'll still have to sell the wagon to fund legal advice though.

speye91

Your a scouser,can you not get Legal Aid.

redragon

agree with above no evidence so there can be no case against you
they need speed gun or video evidence to back it up

vindaloo

Nope, no they don't. As there's 2 coppers, the 2nd one is the verification for the first one. As the charge isn't speeding but careless driving, then the way the Police tell their story is paramount to gaining a conviction.

J.

CyprusScooby

Agree with the above.
The coppers can't report you for speeding though.
A decent solicitor with previous experience of driving cases should be able to put up a good defence for you.

andythejock01wrx

I suppose 200 yds is far enough for them not to consider it as "passing a vehicle on the approach to the roundabout". Still sounds worth getting in touch with a solicitor.

Although a legal defence in the courts might cost a bit I wouldn'd think it would cost too much to sound out a solictor - ie get their view on whether it's worth defending.

chris1scouser

thanks for your comments, i wasn't driving in a careless manner. i wasn't lane hogging or swapping lanes. so i'm encouraged by what yous have said. i'll get advice from a solicitor and keep everyone updated. as some of you said i may hear nothing, that would be nice. Thanks Chris.