are scoobys good or bad in snow?
30 October 2007, 02:30 PM
#2
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With exception of pulling away from standstill using normal tyres; Awful.
Providing you can pull away, you can drive a non-turbo FWD car with much more conviction and control in snow with little skill.
The engine slung way out in front, light rear end and a rear LSD makes it super-senstive on-power and during engine braking, requiring very precise and delicate control of the throttle and steering.
That's the thing; enough traction to get moving, but nothing else; i.e no brakes and little steering control - something the UK public struggle to comprehend, with dire consequences (me being late home from work, beacuse of people who just simply cannot drive
).
Providing you can pull away, you can drive a non-turbo FWD car with much more conviction and control in snow with little skill.
The engine slung way out in front, light rear end and a rear LSD makes it super-senstive on-power and during engine braking, requiring very precise and delicate control of the throttle and steering.
That's the thing; enough traction to get moving, but nothing else; i.e no brakes and little steering control - something the UK public struggle to comprehend, with dire consequences (me being late home from work, beacuse of people who just simply cannot drive
).
30 October 2007, 02:31 PM
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I think your taking the p1ss mate - you seem to have commented on nearly every thread on here, but with **** all useful to say!?!? Are you bored at school or something?
30 October 2007, 02:33 PM
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Fair play Fred for starting another topic. 
My view is that all cars are fairly poor in the snow on their all season tyres.
They perform very well on winter tyres though.
The Scoob is no different, except that it has a turbo kick that will catch you out on snowy roads and the abs seems a bit sensitive.
However, having driving a Scoob on both all season and winter tyres in the snow, I can say through experience it's like the difference between night and day.
Oh, and no one's arguing, we're discussing it.
My view is that all cars are fairly poor in the snow on their all season tyres.
They perform very well on winter tyres though.
The Scoob is no different, except that it has a turbo kick that will catch you out on snowy roads and the abs seems a bit sensitive.
However, having driving a Scoob on both all season and winter tyres in the snow, I can say through experience it's like the difference between night and day.
Oh, and no one's arguing, we're discussing it.
30 October 2007, 02:35 PM
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i don't know much about this because i've neva driven mine in heavy snow, no doubt i will get the cance this year living in the sticks 
but i wud have thought that it really makes little difference what car you have. The main factors (of driving well in snow) being the type of tyres, your driving ability and wether the vehicle has 2WD or 4WD.
In that respect i wud say that a standard 4WD scooby wud prob be better than most other cars cause purely for the fact it has 4WD.
but like i said, i know nothing really, just my personally opinion
but i wud have thought that it really makes little difference what car you have. The main factors (of driving well in snow) being the type of tyres, your driving ability and wether the vehicle has 2WD or 4WD.In that respect i wud say that a standard 4WD scooby wud prob be better than most other cars cause purely for the fact it has 4WD.
but like i said, i know nothing really, just my personally opinion
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30 October 2007, 02:40 PM
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The original debate started here for those wanting to actually go and read up on the opinions of people that have experience of these cars in snow but more importantly in cold weather.
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
30 October 2007, 02:46 PM
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30 October 2007, 02:52 PM
#15
With winter tyres fitted, an Impreza is superb in the snow. On standard tyres, you can get going no problems, but turning corners and stopping in particular can be a nightmare! Mainly due to stiff suspension, wide low profile tyres with firm sidewalls.
30 October 2007, 03:19 PM
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I really wish they had a snow setting for the ABS, as taking the fuse in and out is not practical when you are driving long distances, often in and out of snow.
Winter tyres are a major benefit in the winter, not just the snow.
In summary: ABS is a pain in snow and even more so without winter tyres!!!!
30 October 2007, 03:25 PM
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Sorry to say this I had a forester (based on impreza) and it was fantastic in all weather and all conditions on or off road, having said that it did have the biggest most chunky tyres i have ever seen...I think they came off a tractor...lol
30 October 2007, 03:29 PM
#21
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Scoobs are fantastic in the snow, you just have to fit tyres that will work!
The argument that FWD cars are better is more often down to the fact they are fitted with 195 or thinner tyres compared to 215 or wider on the Scooby.
The wider the tyre, the more distance the tyre has to shift the snow from the center of the tyre and the more chance that the tread will block. Once the tread blocks, you are effectively driving on a slick! The same is true for driving on wet roads when there is too much water for the tyre to shift - we call it Aquaplaning! Wider tyres are more subject to aquaplaning than thinner tyres.
The way the tread works in shifting snow or water is to move - The tread is designed to make a kind of ripple movement which helps push the water or snow out from the center of the tyre allowing the maximum contact patch. The more movement in the tread, the more effective it is at clearing the snow or water.
Different rubber compounds work differently at different temperatures. The type of tyres you fit to an average FWD car will generally be a semi-soft all weather compound which is quite suitable for winter driving in the UK. The tyres you fit on your scooby to cope with high speeds and hard sporty driving (E.g. Goodyear F1's, Toyo Proxes etc.) are a much harder compound. A harder compound tyre will 'freeze' as the temperature drops, which means the tread is no longer able to move, so is no longer able to efficiently move the water or snow out of the tread! The tread needs to be soft and pliable in order to provide a) maximum grip on the road surface and b) maximum ability to remove water or snow from the contact patch.
Take F1 for example, they use an ultra-hard compound compared to road tyres, so they have to weave around to generate heat in the tyres in order for the tyre to grip. If they don't get enough heat in the tyres they tend to crash!
Also the tread cut makes a big difference. The deeper the tread, the wider the cuts and an increased number of cuts will all help to generate heat in the tyre and to allow maximum movement in the tread for dissipating water or snow from the contact patch.
So generally, the sporty tyres you have fitted to your scooby will start to 'freeze' below around 10-12 degrees (depending on the tyre type). By 8 degrees the tyre will be 'Frozen' and no longer capable of effectively gripping to a dry road surface or shifting water on a wet surface. When it snows, the surface temperature will be around 0 degrees, so your sporty tyre has no chance of shifting the snow - will immediately block and you will slide around like your on ice skates! The wider the tyre, the bigger the problem!
By fitting a softer compound winter tyre which is designed to work from temperatures from -15 to around 15 degrees you get the following advantages:
1. The rubber doesn't freeze until the surface temperature drops below -15 degrees so the rubber is able to grip properly with the tarmac.
2. More, wider and deeper tread cuts allow more movement in the tyres which inturn generates more heat in the tyre, so the tyres don't require so much time to warm up.
3. Optimal tread pattern allows the tyre to shift large amounts of water or snow providing maximum grip on wet or snow covered surfaces!
4. Improved braking distances in all conditions due to effective grip with the tarmac.
On temperatures between 15 and 20 degrees, the winter tyre will still work quite well but tyre wear will be increased as the tyre overheats. There is generally an overlap between 8 and 15 degrees where you could argue neither tyre is better than the other, although obviously the winter tyre would be better at the lower end where the normal tyre would be better at the higher end.
In the UK, the average surface temperatures are below 8 degrees for November to March so winter tyres would be work better (i.e. are SAFER!) during this period - note its the temperature of the road surface (track temperature) which is important, not the air temperature! The surface temperature doesn't heat up as quickly as the air, so the odd warm week is still going to be better on winter tyres.
Please do not answer this thread with uniformed comments about "We don't get that much snow" or "I don't think we really need them" etc. Unless you have driven on winter tyres (NOT SNOW TYRES!) you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! I've never met a single person who has driven on winter tyres and then says they are not necessary!
Note there is a big difference between all weather tyres fitted to a ford fiesta and hard compound sports tyres fitted to a Scooby. I probably wouldn't fit winter tyres to a fiesta in the UK but I wouldn't dream of not fitting them to a scooby!
*** Note on ABS! ***
The old argument that ABS is rubbish on snow is also rubbish! The ABS comes on when the tyre in no longer able to grip. With a sports tyre, it will not be able to grip as soon as you touch the brake pedal as the tread will already be blocked with snow while you were driving without braking.
With winter tyres, the tread does not block and the tyre is able to grip the surface - either the tarmac below the snow or more grippy packed snow! As long as the tyre is still capable of gripping, the ABS will still function correctly and allow you to change direction under braking without loosing control of the vehicle! JUST WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO!
I once had a close encounter with a snow-plough on a small country lane! The ABS did its job perfectly allowing me to swerve around the snow-plough under braking without loosing control of the vehicle!
DONT TRY AND ARGUE AGAINST ME WHEN YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF WINTER TYRES - Either on snow or wet greasy winter roads!
Just try them for a winter then next year you'll be arguing with me!
IF YOU'VE NEVER DRIVEN ON WINTER TYRES - YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
And yes - I'm SHOUTING on purpose!!!!
The argument that FWD cars are better is more often down to the fact they are fitted with 195 or thinner tyres compared to 215 or wider on the Scooby.
The wider the tyre, the more distance the tyre has to shift the snow from the center of the tyre and the more chance that the tread will block. Once the tread blocks, you are effectively driving on a slick! The same is true for driving on wet roads when there is too much water for the tyre to shift - we call it Aquaplaning! Wider tyres are more subject to aquaplaning than thinner tyres.
The way the tread works in shifting snow or water is to move - The tread is designed to make a kind of ripple movement which helps push the water or snow out from the center of the tyre allowing the maximum contact patch. The more movement in the tread, the more effective it is at clearing the snow or water.
Different rubber compounds work differently at different temperatures. The type of tyres you fit to an average FWD car will generally be a semi-soft all weather compound which is quite suitable for winter driving in the UK. The tyres you fit on your scooby to cope with high speeds and hard sporty driving (E.g. Goodyear F1's, Toyo Proxes etc.) are a much harder compound. A harder compound tyre will 'freeze' as the temperature drops, which means the tread is no longer able to move, so is no longer able to efficiently move the water or snow out of the tread! The tread needs to be soft and pliable in order to provide a) maximum grip on the road surface and b) maximum ability to remove water or snow from the contact patch.
Take F1 for example, they use an ultra-hard compound compared to road tyres, so they have to weave around to generate heat in the tyres in order for the tyre to grip. If they don't get enough heat in the tyres they tend to crash!
Also the tread cut makes a big difference. The deeper the tread, the wider the cuts and an increased number of cuts will all help to generate heat in the tyre and to allow maximum movement in the tread for dissipating water or snow from the contact patch.
So generally, the sporty tyres you have fitted to your scooby will start to 'freeze' below around 10-12 degrees (depending on the tyre type). By 8 degrees the tyre will be 'Frozen' and no longer capable of effectively gripping to a dry road surface or shifting water on a wet surface. When it snows, the surface temperature will be around 0 degrees, so your sporty tyre has no chance of shifting the snow - will immediately block and you will slide around like your on ice skates! The wider the tyre, the bigger the problem!
By fitting a softer compound winter tyre which is designed to work from temperatures from -15 to around 15 degrees you get the following advantages:
1. The rubber doesn't freeze until the surface temperature drops below -15 degrees so the rubber is able to grip properly with the tarmac.
2. More, wider and deeper tread cuts allow more movement in the tyres which inturn generates more heat in the tyre, so the tyres don't require so much time to warm up.
3. Optimal tread pattern allows the tyre to shift large amounts of water or snow providing maximum grip on wet or snow covered surfaces!
4. Improved braking distances in all conditions due to effective grip with the tarmac.
On temperatures between 15 and 20 degrees, the winter tyre will still work quite well but tyre wear will be increased as the tyre overheats. There is generally an overlap between 8 and 15 degrees where you could argue neither tyre is better than the other, although obviously the winter tyre would be better at the lower end where the normal tyre would be better at the higher end.
In the UK, the average surface temperatures are below 8 degrees for November to March so winter tyres would be work better (i.e. are SAFER!) during this period - note its the temperature of the road surface (track temperature) which is important, not the air temperature! The surface temperature doesn't heat up as quickly as the air, so the odd warm week is still going to be better on winter tyres.
Please do not answer this thread with uniformed comments about "We don't get that much snow" or "I don't think we really need them" etc. Unless you have driven on winter tyres (NOT SNOW TYRES!) you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! I've never met a single person who has driven on winter tyres and then says they are not necessary!
Note there is a big difference between all weather tyres fitted to a ford fiesta and hard compound sports tyres fitted to a Scooby. I probably wouldn't fit winter tyres to a fiesta in the UK but I wouldn't dream of not fitting them to a scooby!
*** Note on ABS! ***
The old argument that ABS is rubbish on snow is also rubbish! The ABS comes on when the tyre in no longer able to grip. With a sports tyre, it will not be able to grip as soon as you touch the brake pedal as the tread will already be blocked with snow while you were driving without braking.
With winter tyres, the tread does not block and the tyre is able to grip the surface - either the tarmac below the snow or more grippy packed snow! As long as the tyre is still capable of gripping, the ABS will still function correctly and allow you to change direction under braking without loosing control of the vehicle! JUST WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO!
I once had a close encounter with a snow-plough on a small country lane! The ABS did its job perfectly allowing me to swerve around the snow-plough under braking without loosing control of the vehicle!
DONT TRY AND ARGUE AGAINST ME WHEN YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF WINTER TYRES - Either on snow or wet greasy winter roads!
Just try them for a winter then next year you'll be arguing with me!
IF YOU'VE NEVER DRIVEN ON WINTER TYRES - YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
And yes - I'm SHOUTING on purpose!!!!
30 October 2007, 03:31 PM
#22
The original debate started here for those wanting to actually go and read up on the opinions of people that have experience of these cars in snow but more importantly in cold weather.
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
30 October 2007, 03:59 PM
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got to agree, for the most of us down south, it only snows 2 days a year, so switching tyres is a right royal PITA.
i tried my scoob out in the snow, 5am in the snow and it scared the life out of me.
went back and got the old XR2 out and it was foot down all the way to work!!
the trouble was there was more ice than snow and any hint of throttle, resulted in the back end kicking out. (not worth the aggro of damaging wheels and / or suspension) never mind the possibility of someone else hitting you!!
keep it on the drive, or better still in thre garage...lol
i tried my scoob out in the snow, 5am in the snow and it scared the life out of me.
went back and got the old XR2 out and it was foot down all the way to work!!
the trouble was there was more ice than snow and any hint of throttle, resulted in the back end kicking out. (not worth the aggro of damaging wheels and / or suspension) never mind the possibility of someone else hitting you!!
keep it on the drive, or better still in thre garage...lol
30 October 2007, 04:22 PM
#27
Scooby Senior
WINTER TYRES ARE NOT SNOW TYRES!
Its irrelevant how much it snows!
BELOW 8 DEGREES YOUR STANDARD TYRES DON'T WORK!
Winter tyres will be better on WET, ICY or SNOW covered roads!
30 October 2007, 04:40 PM
#28
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The original debate started here for those wanting to actually go and read up on the opinions of people that have experience of these cars in snow but more importantly in cold weather.
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
Remember we are talking about winter tyres and NOT snow tyres. The two are completely different kettles of fish.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ob-winter.html
J.
Last edited by vindaloo; 30 October 2007 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Requires clarification.
30 October 2007, 04:53 PM
#29
Scooby Senior
Winter tyres = M&S (Mud and Snow)
Snow tyres are generally studded and illegal to drive on roads that are not covered in snow!
Snow tyres are generally studded and illegal to drive on roads that are not covered in snow!
30 October 2007, 04:59 PM
#30
Scooby Senior
I currently use Goodyear Ultragrip and they are great.
I used Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's previously - They were not so good here in South Germany, but I would say they were Ideal for UK conditions! PA3's are supposed to be a big improvement too!
I also believe the Dunlop SP Winter Sports are excellent!
The other I don't know about!
I used Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's previously - They were not so good here in South Germany, but I would say they were Ideal for UK conditions! PA3's are supposed to be a big improvement too!
I also believe the Dunlop SP Winter Sports are excellent!
The other I don't know about!