Confessions on a BBS...
06 December 2000, 03:55 PM
#1
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OK, so maybe sometimes we exceed the speed limit such as during an overtaking manouver to minimise the time exposed to danger.
However, given <A HREF=http://rsowners.iserver.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007119.html>this thread on the RS board</a>, when can a posting on a BBS be used in evidence against you?
It's a serious question.
Anyone got any thoughts?
However, given <A HREF=http://rsowners.iserver.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007119.html>this thread on the RS board</a>, when can a posting on a BBS be used in evidence against you?
It's a serious question.
Anyone got any thoughts?
06 December 2000, 04:00 PM
#2
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Surely unless it is used as in a slander case, they cannot prove that you were not lying when you made the post. I'm sure people often boast on boards to try to impress others - so they can later say that it wasn't true.
I'm not a lawyer but this seems like common sense...
06 December 2000, 04:01 PM
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threads on the BBS can be used against you in court.... i cant give any details... but TRUST me... (at least here in the states they can)
if you post it, write it - it can be used against you... I would never, ever brag or boast or post of illegal activities on a BBS... that's just about as smart as videotaping yourself doing something stupid... eventually the cops will get a hold of that tape... and BAM... you're a gonner...
j.
if you post it, write it - it can be used against you... I would never, ever brag or boast or post of illegal activities on a BBS... that's just about as smart as videotaping yourself doing something stupid... eventually the cops will get a hold of that tape... and BAM... you're a gonner...
j.
06 December 2000, 04:02 PM
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Hope they loose their licence or grow up before they kill someone!!
My thoughts on allowing this sort of post on Scoobynet have just been posted on page two of
My thoughts on allowing this sort of post on Scoobynet have just been posted on page two of
06 December 2000, 04:06 PM
#6
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Well I suppose baring in mind the ip address of the host posting the comments is logged, it may be possible to prove the source of the imformation, would be pretty tricky to prove who was using the machine at that time (unless its situated in your home!)...
may be wrong...
may be wrong...
06 December 2000, 04:17 PM
#7
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no i dont believe so, especially in the context of aforementioned thread.
although i can imagine it'd be different if a post referred to an actual incident and the post gave specific details....but that post doesn't come ANYWHERE near that imo.
although i can imagine it'd be different if a post referred to an actual incident and the post gave specific details....but that post doesn't come ANYWHERE near that imo.
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06 December 2000, 04:17 PM
#8
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dammit dammit...I knew I shouldnt have videoed myself with that huge shipment of Heroin, a tub of vaseline and next doors Alsation.... 
sorry - that was unpleasant.
I think it would be quite tricky in the UK to actually prosecute on the basis of something said on a board like this. You can claim you were making it up, someone else posted using your machine and you dont know who, that it was all fun etc etc...anyway, actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......
but if you decide to brag about outwitting the police whilst doing something moronic.....
N
sorry - that was unpleasant.
I think it would be quite tricky in the UK to actually prosecute on the basis of something said on a board like this. You can claim you were making it up, someone else posted using your machine and you dont know who, that it was all fun etc etc...anyway, actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......
but if you decide to brag about outwitting the police whilst doing something moronic.....
N
06 December 2000, 04:22 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Subie Gal:
[B]threads on the BBS can be used against you in court.... i cant give any details... but TRUST me... (at least here in the states they can)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...but then again they can get you in the US for doing all sorts of daft things.... like having a house that's unsafe for a burgler.
[B]threads on the BBS can be used against you in court.... i cant give any details... but TRUST me... (at least here in the states they can)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...but then again they can get you in the US for doing all sorts of daft things.... like having a house that's unsafe for a burgler.
06 December 2000, 04:31 PM
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I agree with CC regarding this particular thread. I have a feeling it may be spawned by a <I>slightly</I> over-active imagination.
However, evidence from BBS's <B>has</B> been used in court. One case that springs to mind concerns something posted on one of the cruise websites. The administrators very kindly had the IP visible to everyone. So the thread was copied, the ISP coughed up the details of the subscriber using that IP at the time the message was posted and hey presto one VERY <B>VERY</B> surprised Nova boy (when the police 'knocked' on his front door at 3am
)
There was a case in the papers at the weekend where some *insert random swearwords* on an R1/Fireblade had videoed himself doing 150+ then had an accident. I think you can guess what happened when they found the tape.......
However, evidence from BBS's <B>has</B> been used in court. One case that springs to mind concerns something posted on one of the cruise websites. The administrators very kindly had the IP visible to everyone. So the thread was copied, the ISP coughed up the details of the subscriber using that IP at the time the message was posted and hey presto one VERY <B>VERY</B> surprised Nova boy (when the police 'knocked' on his front door at 3am
)There was a case in the papers at the weekend where some *insert random swearwords* on an R1/Fireblade had videoed himself doing 150+ then had an accident. I think you can guess what happened when they found the tape.......
06 December 2000, 04:38 PM
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I remember reading that about the biker. His lawyer claimed that it was his last ride before selling the bike and that he wanted something to remember it by - I guess the hefty fine and lack of licence will remind him in the years to come...
06 December 2000, 04:39 PM
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There was a great case of a Japanese guy with a F40 who videotaped himself doing 200mph - the Japanese police eventually got the tape and he was done !!
I agree with Dr Evil, that who can say you arent just boasting and it's all rubbish ? Unless there is a serious incident and the police are worried enough to try and find out who caused it, it wouldnt be taken seriously. I bet they would need some better evidence to back it up too.
I agree with Dr Evil, that who can say you arent just boasting and it's all rubbish ? Unless there is a serious incident and the police are worried enough to try and find out who caused it, it wouldnt be taken seriously. I bet they would need some better evidence to back it up too.
06 December 2000, 04:45 PM
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You probably can get done, its like people using BBS's over here to give false share tips to fool unsuspecting investors also getting done.
Further as has been said already, there was a guy in the UK just the other week who taped himself doing 165+ (prob much more) on his superbike and he crashed, the plod comes along to the accident, finds the tape and knicks him. He said he did it because it was the last ride before the bike was sold!............like people who sell their cars, and kane the nuts off em before the poor new owner comes to collect it in a way i suppose!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06 December 2000).]
Further as has been said already, there was a guy in the UK just the other week who taped himself doing 165+ (prob much more) on his superbike and he crashed, the plod comes along to the accident, finds the tape and knicks him. He said he did it because it was the last ride before the bike was sold!............like people who sell their cars, and kane the nuts off em before the poor new owner comes to collect it in a way i suppose!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06 December 2000).]
06 December 2000, 04:50 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sunilp:
<B>............like people who sell their cars, and kane the nuts off em before the poor new owner comes to collect it in a way i suppose!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06 December 2000).][/quote]
...Or dealerships selling scoobs.
<B>............like people who sell their cars, and kane the nuts off em before the poor new owner comes to collect it in a way i suppose!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06 December 2000).][/quote]
...Or dealerships selling scoobs.
06 December 2000, 04:55 PM
#16
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Unfortunately I spawned the other thread and now wish I hadn't.
Although my imagination wasn't over active what is actually stated and the subsequent assumptions people have made is quite different.
Events that in reality took place over a few seconds at fairly low and legal speeds appear to have been interpreted as reckless high speed pursuits through busy high streets in the middle of the rush hour. Not true but I suppose I asked for it.
I certainly wouldn't have posted anything if I thought it was illegal and hand on heart, wouldn't have taken part in anything illegal knowingly. I value my license and the freedom it gives me too much.
If you read the thread it's obvious the law wasn't broken at anytime. However, I should have used more common sense before posting because when I re-read the post it does look very irresponsible and not what I intended. Doh...
On reflection this type of post should be consigned straight to the Muppetdom, but not deleted. I think it's raised a number of good points and certainly created some heated debate.
Although my imagination wasn't over active what is actually stated and the subsequent assumptions people have made is quite different.
Events that in reality took place over a few seconds at fairly low and legal speeds appear to have been interpreted as reckless high speed pursuits through busy high streets in the middle of the rush hour. Not true but I suppose I asked for it.
I certainly wouldn't have posted anything if I thought it was illegal and hand on heart, wouldn't have taken part in anything illegal knowingly. I value my license and the freedom it gives me too much.
If you read the thread it's obvious the law wasn't broken at anytime. However, I should have used more common sense before posting because when I re-read the post it does look very irresponsible and not what I intended. Doh...
On reflection this type of post should be consigned straight to the Muppetdom, but not deleted. I think it's raised a number of good points and certainly created some heated debate.
06 December 2000, 05:11 PM
#17
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The reason I ask is that I suspect people may be incriminating themselves occasionally on this bbs.
The other thread was most interesting, and this sort of debate is enjoyable as long as it doesn't turn into a slanging match.
The other thread was most interesting, and this sort of debate is enjoyable as long as it doesn't turn into a slanging match.
06 December 2000, 05:59 PM
#18
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Hello,
I very much doubt that if you posted something on a BBS that it could be used as evidence against you because you can say you were having a joke, however that does not apply to slander or liable (hence we almost lost Scooby a while ago)
In the case of Proof of who posted it ""...actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......""
Sorry but its easy, I have done it, We phoned up some chap who had been a naughty boy on our website. He was very surprised.
This BBS logs your IP address but even if it didn't, All webserver activity is monitored in a log, you just x-ref this log which contains the IP address and actions with the date/time/content of the bbs.
If a serious problem has occurred then phone the ISP that provides that IP address and report it. The ISP has records of the phone number that used that IP address at that time. Even small companies have succeeded in getting hold of people who have hacked/defrauded them.
The only thing that makes this difficult is Cyber Cafes etc.
I'm watching YOU ALL!!!!
I very much doubt that if you posted something on a BBS that it could be used as evidence against you because you can say you were having a joke, however that does not apply to slander or liable (hence we almost lost Scooby a while ago)
In the case of Proof of who posted it ""...actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......""
Sorry but its easy, I have done it, We phoned up some chap who had been a naughty boy on our website. He was very surprised.
This BBS logs your IP address but even if it didn't, All webserver activity is monitored in a log, you just x-ref this log which contains the IP address and actions with the date/time/content of the bbs.
If a serious problem has occurred then phone the ISP that provides that IP address and report it. The ISP has records of the phone number that used that IP address at that time. Even small companies have succeeded in getting hold of people who have hacked/defrauded them.
The only thing that makes this difficult is Cyber Cafes etc.
I'm watching YOU ALL!!!!
06 December 2000, 06:13 PM
#19
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I know the person involved and he has quite a few stories about his mate 'Jimmy'.
There is no way he could be done for anything when he is quite clearly telling a story about someone else.
Stef.
There is no way he could be done for anything when he is quite clearly telling a story about someone else.
Stef.
06 December 2000, 06:43 PM
#20
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and my brother knows the *insert random swearing* biker caught speeding on his fireblade through video evidence, had in fact registered 175 on the tape before coming off, lucky to be alive stupid *insert more random swearing*
06 December 2000, 07:59 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GranTurismo:
<B>In the case of Proof of who posted it ""...actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......""
Sorry but its easy, I have done it, We phoned up some chap who had been a naughty boy on our website. He was very surprised.
This BBS logs your IP address but even if it didn't, All webserver activity is monitored in a log, you just x-ref this log which contains the IP address and actions with the date/time/content of the bbs.
[/quote]
Sh*t, you mean that you can work out my phone number from my IP address - now _that_ is worrying!
Does someone want to e-mail me _my_ IP address to prove it works? Please?
mb
<B>In the case of Proof of who posted it ""...actually tracking someone via IP is near-on impossible .......""
Sorry but its easy, I have done it, We phoned up some chap who had been a naughty boy on our website. He was very surprised.
This BBS logs your IP address but even if it didn't, All webserver activity is monitored in a log, you just x-ref this log which contains the IP address and actions with the date/time/content of the bbs.
[/quote]
Sh*t, you mean that you can work out my phone number from my IP address - now _that_ is worrying!
Does someone want to e-mail me _my_ IP address to prove it works? Please?
mb
06 December 2000, 09:29 PM
#22
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GT is bang on.
Why else do Freeserve et all demand your phone line sends it's number out when you try to connect (CLIP)?
Thus, they can tie your phone number to the lease of the IP addy.
Boomer, in theory only the ISP can see the phone number / IP logs. However, most will either terminate an account or provide the details if you provide proof of what the person was up to (offensive posting etc etc)
Chris.
[This message has been edited by ChrisB (edited 06 December 2000).]
Why else do Freeserve et all demand your phone line sends it's number out when you try to connect (CLIP)?
Thus, they can tie your phone number to the lease of the IP addy.
Boomer, in theory only the ISP can see the phone number / IP logs. However, most will either terminate an account or provide the details if you provide proof of what the person was up to (offensive posting etc etc)
Chris.
[This message has been edited by ChrisB (edited 06 December 2000).]
06 December 2000, 11:04 PM
#23
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I'm in agreement with GT and ChrisB. It's is very easy to trace people if you know what you are doing. Most people don't seem to realise that they leave dirty great electronic footprints all over every site they visit. With the right tools, a little knowledge and a friendly ISP, it really is worryingly easy.
As regards the RS thread, if all we've got to worry about on this BBS is the number of 'muppet' post, then I reckon we're doing all right.
Chris
Edited, because I keep forgetting to use the spell checker
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 December 2000).]
As regards the RS thread, if all we've got to worry about on this BBS is the number of 'muppet' post, then I reckon we're doing all right.
Chris
Edited, because I keep forgetting to use the spell checker
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 December 2000).]
07 December 2000, 12:32 AM
#24
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okay - so for those of you just wandering through a single ISP its a little easier...I'd love to see if you could find out where Im coming from - cos ten grand says you cant...
jjones - you're right - you can do lots of that. Anyeone wanting to be disruptive who users their own, single ISP is a complete muppet frankly!
jjones - you're right - you can do lots of that. Anyeone wanting to be disruptive who users their own, single ISP is a complete muppet frankly!
07 December 2000, 09:34 AM
#26
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Boomer,
Dont worry, to find out your phone number from your IP address I would have to contact your ISP and come up with a certain about of proof that you had been a naughty boy. I would also have to have full access to the server logs on the site in question.
When you call an ISP on your modem they log the phone number you use (just like 1471) and record the IP address they assign you.
Thats why if you use a free ISP and prefix thier number with the blocking code 141? they wont connect you (so you cant be anonymous)!!]
This is why I get so angry when crap TV programs talk about how scary the internet is and how criminals from 10000000000's of miles away are so anonymous. They just dont understand the technology..
Dont worry, to find out your phone number from your IP address I would have to contact your ISP and come up with a certain about of proof that you had been a naughty boy. I would also have to have full access to the server logs on the site in question.
When you call an ISP on your modem they log the phone number you use (just like 1471) and record the IP address they assign you.
Thats why if you use a free ISP and prefix thier number with the blocking code 141? they wont connect you (so you cant be anonymous)!!]
This is why I get so angry when crap TV programs talk about how scary the internet is and how criminals from 10000000000's of miles away are so anonymous. They just dont understand the technology..
07 December 2000, 10:42 AM
#27
ip logging now theres a can of worms!
IP logging is by no means fool proof. There are a number of ways it can be avoided, either by using a free isp that does not require you to forward your telephone number when signing up (there are quite a few around). Secondly you can connect to the internet through a proxy server (or two) of foreign locality - slows your connection down a little. Thirdly use one of the free IP spoofer sites (basically does the same as a proxy server).
big brother may be out there, but if you wish, you can remain fairly anonymous if you so choose.
Oh is it not against the data protection act for your ISP to release your details?
I am by no means an expert on the subject of internet security and all of the above information is of my own interpretation and may be drivel.
IP logging is by no means fool proof. There are a number of ways it can be avoided, either by using a free isp that does not require you to forward your telephone number when signing up (there are quite a few around). Secondly you can connect to the internet through a proxy server (or two) of foreign locality - slows your connection down a little. Thirdly use one of the free IP spoofer sites (basically does the same as a proxy server).
big brother may be out there, but if you wish, you can remain fairly anonymous if you so choose.
Oh is it not against the data protection act for your ISP to release your details?
I am by no means an expert on the subject of internet security and all of the above information is of my own interpretation and may be drivel.
07 December 2000, 01:17 PM
#29
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I suppose we should move this to non-scooby related.......
Anyway as you say there are ways to get round IP logging and ISP stuff, but most net useres dont have a clue. The sort of people who know how the do the spoofing and stuff usually try to do high profile hacks (Microsoft/Network assoicates) etc so personal BBS and small site are ok (security through obscurity!
Bye................
Anyway as you say there are ways to get round IP logging and ISP stuff, but most net useres dont have a clue. The sort of people who know how the do the spoofing and stuff usually try to do high profile hacks (Microsoft/Network assoicates) etc so personal BBS and small site are ok (security through obscurity!
Bye................
08 December 2000, 02:48 AM
#30
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Look all you high and mighty ppl,its not as if the sun shines out of your arse5 
Lighten up a little and enjoy life
Stuart H
Jimmy doesnt exagerate
Stef
You sure you know this person??You got the wrong guy!!Someone else must have stories!
Chopski
PS Jimmy was caught and then warned so how could he be re-tried eh?
Just wonderin.....
Lighten up a little and enjoy life
Stuart H
Jimmy doesnt exagerate
Stef
You sure you know this person??You got the wrong guy!!Someone else must have stories!
Chopski
PS Jimmy was caught and then warned so how could he be re-tried eh?
Just wonderin.....