s_kullman

When you guys do your comparisons, via butt dyno or wristwatch or track time. Are you comparing the UK Impreza turbo or a Grey import WRX?

Since we (North America) have never had the old turbo to compare, can someone do a comparison to the standard UK Impreza turbo.

Thanks much,
Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

Gerg2

I can do a comparison on the Australian ones but I think the result is the same everywhere.

Newy: Fat, slow/er, more comfy, handles bit better, supposedly safer.

Oldy: Strap yourself in.

Depends on what you want, but you dont have a choice do you....

s_kullman

So your saying that the 218hp Impreza Turbo, circa 98-00(not 280hp WRX) will absolutly blow away the 220hp New Impreza ('01 model).

That is some change!! No wonder all you guys are peeved about the new car. 70kg (154lbs) or a passenger added to my car doesn't seem that great of change. Must be some strange turbo lag thing.

Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

GREEN SCOOBY

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by s_kullman:
<B>
So your saying that the 218hp Impreza Turbo, circa 98-00(not 280hp WRX) will absolutly blow away the 220hp New Impreza ('01 model).

That is some change!! No wonder all you guys are peeved about the new car. 70kg (154lbs) or a passenger added to my car doesn't seem that great of change. Must be some strange turbo lag thing.

Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

[/quote]

GREEN SCOOBY

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by s_kullman:
<B>
So your saying that the 218hp Impreza Turbo, circa 98-00(not 280hp WRX) will absolutly blow away the 220hp New Impreza ('01 model).

That is some change!! No wonder all you guys are peeved about the new car. 70kg (154lbs) or a passenger added to my car doesn't seem that great of change. Must be some strange turbo lag thing.

Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

[/quote]

GERG 2 IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND MY LOCAL SCOOBY GARAGE JOKINGLY SAID THEY WOULD NEVER PUT IT UP AGAINST MY MY97 BECAUSE OF THE EXTRA WEIGHT INVOLVED (APPARENTLY OVER 120 KG EXTRA).

P.S. THE NEW MODEL HAS SAME POWER AS MY99

Gerg2

It's more than 70kg. There is less lag in the new model than the old.


And yep....the old model would beat it hands down in a straight line.

s_kullman

Now 120kg is getting more substantial.

Has anyone looked into the amount of sound deadining they've added? or larger bumper reinforcements in the front. I thought I read Prodrive said the bare chassis was the same weight as the old car.

Also, would this added weight on a twisty road course be as detrimental? Drag racing isn't my thing.

Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

chrisp

At the UK motorshow i was talking to a subaru guy on the stand and he told to go and look at a car they had on display that had no body work on. There was loads of extra strengthening mainly around the middle he described it a steel band all the way around the middle. Also the front has been strengthened. The result is a stronger but heavier car .

I think if they were to bring the 247bhp Japanense WRX then people would have been more "up" about the new car.

cheers

chrisp

Hunk

No strange turbo-lag thing. Well, it has to do with the turbo for a part. Because torque comes in more gradually and a bit sooner there is no powerpeak at 3000 rpm. The engine is as powerful as the old one, with a smoother powerband. So, in theory, the new engine performs better. But maybe now it's better suited for a different kind of car because the current Turbo drivers like this kick in the back at 3000rpm like they love their wives and alloys.
Same power, more weight... so it is slower on the straight end. The cornering is at least as good so it still is a very quick car... but with less of a turbo-kick, lighter steering, less noise it feels a mile slower.
Half of the speed of a car is in your head, between your ears.. 80 mph feels a lot faster in a kart then in a Bentley. Some people prefer the Bentley.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the MY01 apart from being ugly. All that is so-called wrong on this car has to do with the budget. It was impossible to give it 265 bhp and still meet (us) environmental demands. Well, i guess they could, but it would make the car as expensive as an Evo... So, some of you say get rid of the overweight... sounds simple.. but then, this car has to pass modern crash-tests, is somewhat bigger, has aircon, 17", abs-airbags, a heavier dash, an extra cat, thicker carpets, etc. Most of the kg's go into stiffness/safety. So what to do? Use even more lightweight alu... it would make the car more expensive..

Gerg2

Hunk...Well said and totally agree. When its all said and done its overall a better car.

Can I now don my flamesuit and ask why the hell does everyone whinge that its slower than the old model when half you guys modify the old ones to make them faster anyway !!! ? ? ?

Just modify the new one to make it faster if thats what you're into ! ! !

Then you have a more refined car that handles better, is safer etc....and can now whip an old model (in standard trim). Problem solved.

The looks have grown on me anyway.....I knew they would.

[This message has been edited by Gerg2 (edited 04 December 2000).]

s_kullman

Thanks for the mature answers

Gerg2 hit it on the nose for me. That car could have antennas on each headlight and pink interior carpet. I'd still buy it. At least I'd finally have a real Turbo Scooby!

Hey if a guy in a C4 feels that a stop light drag is nessesary in my non-turbo RS, I'd love a rematch in a new WRX. (BTW it was raining and I think the guy was suprised how close I stayed for the first 10 meters.)

Thanks!
Shane Kullman
'98 RS Red

waynelivesey

In the US why dont you scoob lovers import the LHD european version of the old model.As your probably aware we import the high performance jap models unavailable in the uk.And dont say its due to the cost because the money you would save on fuel costs would surely amount to the initial outlay!We in the UK pay about $5.5 dollars per gallon.

Dippy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hunk:
<B>Half of the speed of a car is in your head, between your ears...[/quote]

Trouble is, that's the bit that makes you want to buy a car even though it looks like a Toyota Corolla. But now Subaru have taken that bit away?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gerg2:
<B>Can I now don my flamesuit and ask why the hell does everyone whinge that its slower than the old model when half you guys modify the old ones to make them faster anyway !!! ? ? ?[/quote]

Those are the half who did NOT buy the car from Subaru UK at list price and who have no warranty to maintain.

If you buy a WRX from Subaru UK it will cost you £22-24K depending on accessories (have a look at the list - sport suspension is £700). Add a PPP (if they ever do one) and that could get to £26K.

Look around the market and see what else you can buy for £26K.

N.B. These comments ONLY apply to the UK, but it does explain why we're whinging...

s_kullman

If only it was that easy. A bunch of years ago (~15) they changed the laws on imports. Now they need to pass crash test and probably some emmission stuff.
There is a company in California that when through this trouble for the Skylines.

JasonHook

I drove the new car yesterday for about twenty minutes. Unfortunately the road were very wet and muddy so I didn't a chance to truly compare it to my MY99. My initial thoughts were:
1. The new car is put together better (no wind noise) although the interior doesn't bother me in my current car;
2. The engine is smoother and quieter lacking the turbo lag I notice in mine (and you can still hear the turbo). But feels slower.
3. The new car has a similiar chunky feel to the old car but more so (stiffer)
4. The look has not really grown on me but I realise the old car appears dated

Overall I wasn't as disapointed in the new car as I expected to be. I'm not desparate to change so I'll probably wait to see what prodrive do and what the STI version is like.

Jason

Gerg2

Dippy....I wasnt referring to just the UK, I was referring everyone in general you talk to about the car worldwide. But things do appear to be radically different over there than to here.

And I think whinging was too strong a word to use. What I should have said was "dissapointed".

PS If you read this is there somewhere online I can see the list?

Cheers.

chiark

My thoughts are that Subaru have taken a bargain performance car that appeals to enthusiasts and tried to make it appeal to the mass market.

They may have succeeded, but the enthusiasts are left a little disappointed, maybe? Especially when comparing with the last model using an enthusiasts metrics - how does it go, how does it sound, feel, ...

The STI will get my attention, though I feel it will be out of my price range by a good many thousand.

So, to us it may appear that Subaru have lost the plot, but to their accountants it may just be the best move they ever made.

After all, even 5 years ago they were still being sold to the countryside in the majority....

Gary Foster

Anybody know how it was that went to their dealer and said, Like the car wish it was

1) more refined (slower, bigger, heavier)
2) quieter
3) more comfortable on the motorway
4) Have a prettier interior

I am obviously quite the opposite to you lot, I want

1) Cheaper
2) Faster
3) Noisier
4) Lighter
5) More reliable (esp on track)

And I couldn't care less about emissions, more safety features, extra cup holders and a pretty interior.

Then again they probably don't want me as a customer , Obviously trying to move upmarket into the Audi / BMW sector

Gary

Dippy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gary Foster:
<B>Obviously trying to move upmarket into the Audi / BMW sector

Gary[/quote]

There's some irony there, 'cos if the new Impreza disappoints me then I'll probably buy a BMW or Audi instead.

I still just can't see Subaru stealing any of Audi/BMW's market - quite the reverse!!!

Dippy

Nope - "whinging" is right - generally we're upset that Subaru have produced a slower car - most people now seem to want to wait for the STI version.

You can see the 'list' on

NeilR

Hi

Dealer told me that Prodrive were working very hard indeed to turn the new Impreza into a seriously quick car.

I came away from my test drive somewhat un-impressed with the steering 'feel' (too light) and the lack of yeehaa from the acceleration was a major blow. The car i tested has added skirts and mock carbon interior so it looked a little better but those lights still made me feel queasy. I also hated the gap between the top of the tyres and the wheel arch and why oh why did they give the rear of the car such a puny wheel arch??

Lowering the car by 2 inches all round and fitting a large single bore pipe WOULD do wonders for the cars image.

Oh yeah, the new seats felt totally crap compared with my STI III.

Just my own opinions guys
NeilR

Re the new STi..... now that could be very nice indeed.

s_kullman

If we start to compare upscale cars, we dive into a totally different arena. I'm not sure how the prices compare for you, but here it's like this (in usd): New WRX ~26k, new A4 ~28k, new BMW 330i ~33k. That quite a jump for the BMW. I could do a lot of tweaking for 7k. Plus the BMW is much larger. The A4 1.8t is the best bang for the buck, chip the Turbo for $500 and stock 150hp turns into ~220. But the handling is a bit mushy for my tastes.

Shane

Dippy

Shane, you're right, although the pricing differentials do differ around the world!

For the old Impreza turbo, it was easy to say that comparing to a BMW 328 (for example) was unfair because of the price difference, although the Beemer did give you more 'bells and whistles' for some of that money.

But now that the new Impreza is slower but more refined, it is more appropriate to compare it to a BMW 330. The Beamer gives similar performance (maybe slower 0-60 but better through the gears) but is much more refined and has loads of bells and whistles.

In the UK the price difference is similar, at around £4K ($5.75K), although we have to pay £22K ($32K) for a WRX! But IMO the extras on the Beemer make the difference worth thinking about, especially when you consider those WRX headlights!

Also you must have noticed that the UK currently has rather higher new car prices than the rest of Europe. For me, a wait of 3 months to import a car is OK, but not the 5-6 months quoted for a WRX. That makes the Beemer only slightly more expensive than the UK WRX.

Andy Burrell

Cos you could always wait for the New Jag X type, more horses 4wd etc etc etc. As long as you done mind driving a Mondeo. But maybe better than a Toyota Corolla with flaired wheel arches.
I'll stick with my 99MY and spend some more cash on it.