paul2070

The deal for the already modded car i was going to buy looks like it is falling through as the guy reckons he is now part ex'ing it instead of selling it privately,so i now need to find another car.

I am still going to buy a 2003-2005 STI PPP but i now need to know when i do,who i should get to modify it.

The front runners(as i want a drive in drive out conversion and not just a remap)are,

1.Powerstation - They claim 320-330bhp from a remap,3" Milltek system and sports cat and a panel filter for £1350+vat.

2.TSL - Obviously there 333 conversion,and they claim a solid 335bhp from a group n panel filter,resonator pipe and a remap for £900 all in(if it has PPP fitted),and i have the option to do the 3" exhaust on top.

3.Alan Jeffries - They claim circa 320bhp from a remap and induction kit for about £825 or circa 350bhp if i also change the headers which will cost an additional £630.

4.Roger Clarke - Now,they claim i will definately see 340-350bhp(they say they get every one within 5bhp of each other),and this is from a 3" System,induction kit and remap and would be £2250 all in,however,they would need the car for about a week!!

Is there anyone that has had any of the above do this sort of conversion on their car,and if so,how did you find it before and after.................basically,do you consider it money well spent?

I should add,i am certainly not just looking for the largest BHP figure as i beleive that torque,and therefore drivability is most important,i really do want something that is pretty devastating when i am in the mood,but that is also very happy being put in 6th and "plodding"on,but if you need it,there is decent pull in 6th without having to change down a gear or two(i hope that makes sense).

I also need to know if i should consider anyone else(drive in drive out service remember),preferably in the Southern end of Britain,but as you can see from the above names,i am willing to travel to the right people from my base in Somerset.

Cheers guys .

PPPRob

First of all, why are you bothering to get a PPP if you're intending to do remaps and change parts???

Secondly, Bob Rawle has suggested that my 04 sti (PPP) would hopefully make 350/350 but at least 330/330 with just a panel filter and a remap.

So how far do you want to go???

paul2070

I would like a similar amount of power really..................330-350bhp as i think it would really make a noticeable improvement,as everyone i have spoke to says that even with PPP they all only make 270-290bhp.

As for wanting the PPP,it's just that most seem to have it,and until i can find someone i am happy with to tune it,it's got a bit more get-up and go,and obviously second hand,it really only makes a car more desirable as opposed to actually making the car any/much more expensive to buy in the first place.

I spoke to Bob the other day about the one i was buying,as he done the map etc on that one,but he was saying that you would also need an uprated fuel pump,knocklink etc if i bought a standard one(STI PPP),and was also reluctant to give power facts,because as he says,and i agree,it is more about people wanting to out do one another,as opposed to what the car actually drives like,which as i said above,is far more important to me at the end of the day,it's just nice to know the start and end figures really to know it is money well spent.

PPPRob

I only asked because you seem to want to buy a PPP car and then change all the PPP bits.

Why not search for a well modded car thats either PPP or not?

Dreams car looks the mutts nuts to me and as far as I'm aware is for sale right now on here and ebay

Otherwise do what I've done. I've bought a non PPP'd ECU to give to Bob for my remap so the PPP ECU will be for sale afterwards.

Attempt to rekindle some costs. I sold my prodrive back box when I got an H&S on here too.

Its ok if 1 comes up and you like it but I wouldn't dismiss non PPPd cars just for that. I'd visit Bob with whatever you decide TBH. Buy parts separately and have them fitted the morning of the remap and get down to Bob.

paul2070

That was pretty much my thinking with a PPP'd car TBH................the bit's that come off,do have some value,or you have it to put back on when you sell.

The only thing with Bob is,like you say,getting bit's fitted by others,than having to take it to him to be mapped,whereas if i could find someone else,i could just have it all done under one roof.................and hopefully drive away with a big grin...................like this !!

paul2070

Incidently,i am definately not ruling him out,as i know he is a legend on here .

Mangel

Powerstation one is very good. Had my car done there very proffessional and good power!!!

eightyfoufires

Are Power Engineering any good?

PPPRob

They were big players in the Ford community but don't hear much of them in the subaru world

eightyfoufires

Mines 302bhp at 6160rpm and 330lbs/ft peak torque.
Has had a remap by Power Engineering, walbro fuel pump, prodrive back box and a decat

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

I'd say go for a PPP car as I'd be surprised if it's going to cost much more (if any) and you would only have to pop a green/k&n panel filter in it (5 mins DIY) then get Bob to map it. Everything else is done for you (sports decat/pump/bb) therefore £40 filter ~£600 mapping = 320 to 350 depending on you particular car, but more importantly it'll feel like a rocket..!

On balance it's probably the most cost effective way of doing it once you've added up buying and fitting of the decat/pump etc..for a non PPP car

PPPRob

Yeah true, I just didn't know how far he wanted to go with modding.

What you've said is exactly my situation and I've managed to get some money back by selling the relevant parts.

AlexT

GRD in Chobham are always good value for money. They always make decent figures but they mainly go for pure drivability in their mapping as opposed to trying to hit a peak figure by boost spiking like some tuners. Also they use an independant Rolling Road so you're guaranteed a true set of figures whereas some tuners with their own rollers can quite easily bias theirs. I'm sure the majority don't but you never know.

Finally most of the map work is done on rollers with the final tweaks done out on the road for the best set up. It's surprising how many companies don't do this or do all their map work on the road which is pretty much impossible to get spot on.

davedipster

Get a ppp'd car. PPP 0-100 in 12.9secs, compared to 12.6secs for a TSL 333'd car.
Is the 0.3 of a second really worth the money? I'd say no way.

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Aint 350/350 a bit optimistic with just a remap and filter ?? Mines off to Zak @ Mocom on Wednesday and i'd love to see figures like that but, i'm not holding my breath

paul2070

Thats the sort of information that i am looking for,although it is only one benchmark....................do you know how they compare over 0-60,quarter mile etc?

The thing with the figures though is that they do only tell part of the story,because it may well feel completely different than the figures suggest where it counts,out on the road....................like i have said,it really is additional driveability/smoothness and torque i really want .

paul2070

Let us (me) know how you get on and the improvements that you feel after mate (and the figures),as i will be really interested to know.

How much is it costing,and how much are you having done?

Is yours an STI PPP??

SirFozzalot

Definitely worth speaking to Zak at Mocom.




Mine will be going there very soon!

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Yes M8 2003 STi PPP

davedipster

---------------ppp----------------tsl333
0-60 ----------5.2 -----------------4.8
0-100 ---------12.9 ----------------12.6
1/4 mile -------13.7 102mph --------13.6 103mph
50-70 in 3rd ----2.5 ----------------2.3
50-70 in 4th ----3.0 ----------------2.8
60-80 in 4th ----3.2 ----------------2.9

dipster

AlexT

No offence but a bunch of figures doesn't really prove anything. Everyone is far too obsessed with peak figures, 0 - 60 and 1/4 mile which are so blatently inaccurate. 2 sets of figures probably taken from 2 different cars with completely different atmospherics. PPP figures are optimistic at best and even if these numbers look similar there's no way a generic out-of-the-box map would feel that close to a decent car specific map.

If you tool a look at the RR Readings for these figures you'd see a much greater difference between them with boost held for longer and coming on earlier. Peak torque should come in earlier also with a much wider torque band give increased drivability.

Comparing tuning packages with figures is great but unfortunately it's a bit of a keyboard tuners game. I'd always want to see RR Readings for anyones claims first.

richie001

iTrader: (3)

could try wrc tech at silverstone (website not working)

AllyJ

I have the 333 on my 05, its not really anything about 0-60 times even though its marginally quicker, my torque curve is though very very smooth, and a absolute joy to drive, thats pretty much what 333 is about, the ppp map is awful imho with the neck breaking rush coming full on in your face, the 333 is a much smooth delivery and makes the sti a pleasure to drive hard or drive easy. I can't comment on others as I havn't had any experiences but the 333 conversion I can heartily recommend to anyone.

As a matter of comparing to a normal ppp sti I did have the luck to do this at a track day and the torque smoothness of the 333 vs the ppp is pretty conclusive we found (we each drove each others cars) its way more response earlier on in the rev range in the 333 and also when flooring the car round bends the smooth power as opposed to a neck breaker from the ppp made physically handling the car a lot lot easier.

My 2 pence worth for you, powerstation etc all get good reviews here so its your call, but tbh most remaps/packages etc give you far better experiences than the ppp just pick the one that suits you for the budget and taste.

paul2070

I did ask about these the other day on here,and they were slated,however,they do good things with Evo's apparently.

paul2070

[quote=AllyJ;6597922]
As a matter of comparing to a normal ppp sti I did have the luck to do this at a track day and the torque smoothness of the 333 vs the ppp is pretty conclusive we found (we each drove each others cars) its way more response earlier on in the rev range in the 333 and also when flooring the car round bends the smooth power as opposed to a neck breaker from the ppp made physically handling the car a lot lot easier.

quote]

As i have said,the figures are interesting as a comparison,but as you rightly say,it is more about how different the two cars actually drive out on the road..................when i looked into buying a PPP 2 years ago,i did find it very peaky,however,with a decent amount more torque,and altered dynamics i now know it will suit me down to the ground.TSL also have a demo car with the package so at least with them i can see if the car suits my driving style before spending the money.Also,on a PPP car,they say the conversion is only £900,so IMO that's not a huge amount of money compared with a possibly huge difference to the car .

davedipster

These are not ppp figures, but an independant Evo magazine test of subaru sti tuning packages using GPS timing equiptment on a test strip on the same day.
Also ppp'd cars show lower rolling road figures due to the map looking at intake temps and lowering boost before any det starts. Very handy when standing in traffic on a hot summers day or on a rolling road, it's all about protecting the engine when it gets too hot.
The in gear times show the ppp to be far from peaky, in fact the map is rather good.

I would go ppp everyday, the research gone into this map is very significant. A remap on your local A road may be ok for that day, but what about on a hot summers day or when it's -10oC?
Some on here have had overboosting issues causing DET on cold days after a 'custom remap', not very safe for the engine.


dipster

AlexT

I actually agree with what you say but then you'd expect nothing less from a Performance Upgrade that requires to be covered under warrenty. Thats why the FQ400 had it's short comings. Making the figures weren't an issue but to make them whilst staying within warrenty constraints obviously compromised that package and PPP's short comings are the same.

I agree the PPP map is good as they have to cover all bases and a fair amount of different tollerances but any decent mapper would be able safely map with better results over PPP. I guess it shows how many bad mappers are about for those issues to be raised.

Using a strip is still inaccurate, even back to back as you can't guarentee the same launch each time or the same wind conditions plus 2 different cars were still used. Did they use the same tyres, same pressures? Too many variables.

davedipster

Here is the data from the Evo article.

paul2070

Do you know who's figures are the GFOR1/2/3??

swtmerce

If you're not bothered about peak power (although it's big anyway!) and want the drivability, then you should definitely steer towards a Jap spec twin scroll rather than a UK car. The torque curve of a twin scroll car has a LOT more area underneath it!