Classic UK - tuneable?
23 January 2007, 11:43 AM
#2
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Very, Decat Exhaust system and a Decent Panel filter would get it to if not slightly more from what I understand. Also as a safety measure would also be an idea to uprate the fuel pump, << serves later when you mod further as well.
23 January 2007, 12:18 PM
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Sports cat/decat exhaust. Wouldn't advocate the latter.
Uprated panel filter
Fuel pump
Remap by an expert!
Would also suggest a three port boost solenoid (cheap as chips second hand)
Will see a comfortable 270bhp and similar torque, maybe a bit more. It will be VERY responsive on the std turbo. Some say you can get similar gains using a dawes device etc... That's the cheap way, but I personally wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!!
After that it gets more expensive, as you have to look at the turbo etc...
My classic is running 320bhp and that was measured on a day with 30 degree + ambient temps. If you do it correctly, the classic is a very tunable car.
Ns04
23 January 2007, 12:30 PM
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Depends on where you get the bits and whether you go for second hand or not.
The expensive part is the remap. You're looking at about 600+ vat (unless you get it in a group buy, in which case, 500 is about more like it).
A good exhaust can be had for 2nd hand for a couple of hundred quid, more like about 600 if you want a complete system with a sports cat in the DP so you can get past the MOT and remain road legal.
A Walbro fuel pump is about £90
Decent panel filter about £30-40
3 port boost solenoid about 25 from a breakers.
Yes, a Dawes is essentially a device that simply increases the boost with no corresponding adustment to ignition or fueling settings. UK imprezas run rather rich as std, so by all accounts can handle a small increse in boost safely, but how small??? How long is a piece of string; they're all different. If anyone goes down this root I would recommend at the VERY least you get the cars fueling checked by a tuner with a wideband AFR guage and det cans to make sure your car isn't detting!
However, I'd just get it done properly!! i.e. remap!
Good, reliable performance doesn't cost peanuts! Pay now, or pay later for an engine rebuild!!
Whereabouts are you; we can recommend you a specialist then.
Ns04
The expensive part is the remap. You're looking at about 600+ vat (unless you get it in a group buy, in which case, 500 is about more like it).
A good exhaust can be had for 2nd hand for a couple of hundred quid, more like about 600 if you want a complete system with a sports cat in the DP so you can get past the MOT and remain road legal.
A Walbro fuel pump is about £90
Decent panel filter about £30-40
3 port boost solenoid about 25 from a breakers.
Yes, a Dawes is essentially a device that simply increases the boost with no corresponding adustment to ignition or fueling settings. UK imprezas run rather rich as std, so by all accounts can handle a small increse in boost safely, but how small??? How long is a piece of string; they're all different. If anyone goes down this root I would recommend at the VERY least you get the cars fueling checked by a tuner with a wideband AFR guage and det cans to make sure your car isn't detting!
However, I'd just get it done properly!! i.e. remap!
Good, reliable performance doesn't cost peanuts! Pay now, or pay later for an engine rebuild!!
Whereabouts are you; we can recommend you a specialist then.
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 23 January 2007 at 12:35 PM.
23 January 2007, 01:21 PM
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yes it is, it replaces the electronic solenoid, it allows the turbo to spool up as fast as it can as there is no bleed off to the actuator until the target pressure. I fitted one to mine, set to the same boost as the solenoid showed and it has brought the torque curve much earlier, in quicker and smoother right accross the range. Bargain for 30 quid, coupled with a full decat and panel filter (no other mods) im pushing 260bhp and 240lb torque in a 98 uk classic.
IMHO the dawes is a great device for the price, you can get the same results with an AVCR and a bit more control, however itll cost you 200 ish quid. You can blow up a car easily with either of these devices if you dont have the right gear to monitor it...
IMHO the dawes is a great device for the price, you can get the same results with an AVCR and a bit more control, however itll cost you 200 ish quid. You can blow up a car easily with either of these devices if you dont have the right gear to monitor it...
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23 January 2007, 01:42 PM
#8
On every turbo you can up the boost to certain degree on the standard turbo and the fuelling can take the adjustment.
With Impreza's though (though my experience since owing the car), most people consider it to be a black art, and go only for the mapping. OK, there will be idiots that whack it up an insane amount without other mods. They are asking for troube. But surely if done correctly, coupled with other mods, de-cat, uprated induction and even uprated IC it will be fine.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
thanks
With Impreza's though (though my experience since owing the car), most people consider it to be a black art, and go only for the mapping. OK, there will be idiots that whack it up an insane amount without other mods. They are asking for troube. But surely if done correctly, coupled with other mods, de-cat, uprated induction and even uprated IC it will be fine.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
thanks
23 January 2007, 01:59 PM
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On every turbo you can up the boost to certain degree on the standard turbo and the fuelling can take the adjustment.
With Impreza's though (though my experience since owing the car), most people consider it to be a black art, and go only for the mapping. OK, there will be idiots that whack it up an insane amount without other mods. They are asking for troube. But surely if done correctly, coupled with other mods, de-cat, uprated induction and even uprated IC it will be fine.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
thanks
With Impreza's though (though my experience since owing the car), most people consider it to be a black art, and go only for the mapping. OK, there will be idiots that whack it up an insane amount without other mods. They are asking for troube. But surely if done correctly, coupled with other mods, de-cat, uprated induction and even uprated IC it will be fine.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
thanks
hth, I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong
ian
23 January 2007, 02:04 PM
#10
The black art I was referring to was in regards of using MBC's, not re-mapping. But from my understanding, when people say re-map I'm assuming they generally mean a new ECU mapped from scratch for the car. Hence the £600+ price tag. I wasn't aware that the standard ECU's could be re-mapped, so thanks for that.
23 January 2007, 02:10 PM
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The black art I was referring to was in regards of using MBC's, not re-mapping. But from my understanding, when people say re-map I'm assuming they generally mean a new ECU mapped from scratch for the car. Hence the £600+ price tag. I wasn't aware that the standard ECU's could be re-mapped, so thanks for that.
and there i was so proud of my reply
remaps on here generally refer to TEK3's which is a software remap rather than a new ecu but this is only available on the later ecu's (post MY99), the cost should be closer to £300 as its just a licence...
Last edited by trails; 23 January 2007 at 02:15 PM.
23 January 2007, 02:16 PM
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Hmm interesting advise !!
The reason I am asking you this is that I am considering buying impreza this spring and I liked the power spec from JDM version but my head is saying get UK spec for insurance reason and do it up.
The reason I am asking you this is that I am considering buying impreza this spring and I liked the power spec from JDM version but my head is saying get UK spec for insurance reason and do it up.
23 January 2007, 02:19 PM
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There might not be much in it once you declare the mods, which you would be silly not to do.
23 January 2007, 02:34 PM
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thanks
23 January 2007, 02:48 PM
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ECUTek is just a means of flashing new maps into the ECU. The bloke that's doing it is the important bit, again read up!
As for Dawes whilst it is possible to blow up your engine with one the ECU does have one very useful safety measure on this front - fuel cut. If it sees boost above a certain amount it will stop fuelling - quite evident to the driver due to the sudden loss of all power. On the stock (i.e. very rich fuel map) ECU it probably won't det much
all the way up to this cutoff. Of course assuming your MAF is reading to spec. etc. Anyway, run a Dawes with boost gauge, Air/Fuel Meter, and KnockLink to keep an eye on things and you "should" be ok.
23 January 2007, 02:57 PM
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I have got a UK 1998 classic and am also looking to up my power. I have currently got a downpipe back decat and an HKS panel filter and SSQV. I have been reading this thread closely and was wondering if it would, 1. be possible to put an ECU from a 1999 + into my car and 2. would it work out cheaper to do this and get it remapped rather than paying the £600+ to remap my ECU?
23 January 2007, 03:02 PM
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Not very straight forward as the wiring loom is significantly different.
No - there are some devices available which allow the earlier ECUs to be mapped and involve fitting a daughter board to the unit. A far more elegent approach would be to use an after market, mappable, ECU. Apexi gets very good reviews on here. Think Andy.F does some good deals on these including mapping
23 January 2007, 03:17 PM
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All you need to know ** www.ecutek.com + search on here / read the technical forums, projects, etc.
ECUTek is just a means of flashing new maps into the ECU. The bloke that's doing it is the important bit, again read up!
As for Dawes whilst it is possible to blow up your engine with one the ECU does have one very useful safety measure on this front - fuel cut. If it sees boost above a certain amount it will stop fuelling - quite evident to the driver due to the sudden loss of all power. On the stock (i.e. very rich fuel map) ECU it probably won't det much all the way up to this cutoff. Of course assuming your MAF is reading to spec. etc. Anyway, run a Dawes with boost gauge, Air/Fuel Meter, and KnockLink to keep an eye on things and you "should" be ok.
ECUTek is just a means of flashing new maps into the ECU. The bloke that's doing it is the important bit, again read up!
As for Dawes whilst it is possible to blow up your engine with one the ECU does have one very useful safety measure on this front - fuel cut. If it sees boost above a certain amount it will stop fuelling - quite evident to the driver due to the sudden loss of all power. On the stock (i.e. very rich fuel map) ECU it probably won't det much
all the way up to this cutoff. Of course assuming your MAF is reading to spec. etc. Anyway, run a Dawes with boost gauge, Air/Fuel Meter, and KnockLink to keep an eye on things and you "should" be ok. Joey, dependant on your long term plans you are best off stripping all the PPP kit off (ecu, back box and intercooler piping), and purchasing a non-PPP 99 onwards ECU, panel filter (I've run green filters and never had any issues), and full decat. You will then be able to sell the PP as a kit and go get TEK 3'd. This should give you (as NS04 said), around 260\270 and if you decide to mod further you now have an ecu that is mappable.
do a search for mappers in the technical section...loads of info for you to make your own mind up about, I'm not getting drawn into a debate about who is best
23 January 2007, 03:52 PM
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Why strip the PPP off ?
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
23 January 2007, 04:20 PM
#23
Why strip the PPP off ?
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
23 January 2007, 04:42 PM
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Why strip the PPP off ?
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
There is no gain to be had by starting with a PPP ECU over a standard MY99-00 ECU when getting a re-map, but the PPP ecu is worth more to start with.
Last edited by turboDean; 23 January 2007 at 04:46 PM.
23 January 2007, 04:50 PM
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Why strip the PPP off ?
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
23 January 2007, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by funkyspider
Why strip the PPP off ?
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
Can't a PPP'd 1999 ecu be remapped with Ecutek - Does PPP 'lock' the ecu to the extent than Ecutek can't write to it (I dont think it does in 01>)
The PPP back box will not cause a problem and whats the point in replacing the intercooler piping.
PPP for MY99/00 was before Prodrive started using ECUTek to map the ECUs.
PPP ECU for these years consisted of an STI ECU along with some additional circuitry fitted inside to scale certain sensor inputs and set the boost levels. It was not reprogrammed.
The ECU itself may be re-programmable but you'd have to take the lid off and reverse all the circuitry mods. done by Prodrive. Pointless, may as well sell it on as a complete PPP, get hold of a stock ECU and have that mapped using ECUTek
23 January 2007, 05:32 PM
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anyone know what boost can be safely run on an early uk td05 classic?
1bar?
1bar?
Last edited by B4D HK; 23 January 2007 at 05:35 PM.
23 January 2007, 06:57 PM
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Wrong and wrong.
PPP for MY99/00 was before Prodrive started using ECUTek to map the ECUs.
PPP ECU for these years consisted of an STI ECU along with some additional circuitry fitted inside to scale certain sensor inputs and set the boost levels. It was not reprogrammed.
PPP for MY99/00 was before Prodrive started using ECUTek to map the ECUs.
PPP ECU for these years consisted of an STI ECU along with some additional circuitry fitted inside to scale certain sensor inputs and set the boost levels. It was not reprogrammed.
i knew it was an sti (jap), derived bit of hardware but thought it was a soft not a hard change that increased the power
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