Classic STI rebuilds
08 December 2006, 07:54 PM
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Classic STI rebuilds
As you can see from my post in other marques I'm thinking of getting an STI 4-6 for my next car. What's the score with the engines on these - there seems to be a lot that have let go and been rebuilt. Is a failed engine generally a sign of neglect or inevitable in which case buying post-rebuild might actually be a better idea. What is the most common cause of failure? I've seen very few uk engine failures so could it be incorrect fuel use or poor mapping. Is there anything else I should be looking out for or be aware of? I had an MY99 UK car a few years back so I know most of the basics.
I've been fully through here, pistonheads, ebay and autotrader and there is honestly only about 2-3 STI's in advertised that don't have something to put me off. Either unrealistic price, high mileage or some total fiction about the mods fitted or the power it has. It's frightening how many people are claiming 350bhp from a STI with a backbox and bumpvalve
Buying tips welcomed 
I've been fully through here, pistonheads, ebay and autotrader and there is honestly only about 2-3 STI's in advertised that don't have something to put me off. Either unrealistic price, high mileage or some total fiction about the mods fitted or the power it has. It's frightening how many people are claiming 350bhp from a STI with a backbox and bumpvalve
Buying tips welcomed
08 December 2006, 08:28 PM
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I've already emailed you about it Russ. I'm the one from Edinburgh and your car is currently the best STI on the market 
You told me there was little point in talking turkey as you'd promised it to someone else on the 16th 
You told me there was little point in talking turkey as you'd promised it to someone else on the 16th
08 December 2006, 08:31 PM
#4
Get that Renault 19 first. And then a bit of patience before you get the scooby. I waited until the right one came by on Scoobynet. You can always remind yourself that every week without a scooby is saving you more money for the car. I got this STi 6 in the end for a smidge over £8k (32,000 miles). Bought it from guy in Scotland to
Last edited by James Neill; 09 December 2006 at 09:27 AM.
08 December 2006, 08:45 PM
#6
Came with some nice mods:-
Decat exhaust
Andy Forrest remap for Shell Super unleaded
Uprated fuel pump, plugs and leads
STi4 spolier
Tinted windows
Wheels were standard gold alloys, the P1 wheels I bought myself. Had it rolling roaded last week. 316 bhp and 312lb-ft torque. To say I was pleased would be an understatement. There are good ones out there and they do come up. I reckon you get a minter on Scoobynet once or twice every couple of months.
Decat exhaust
Andy Forrest remap for Shell Super unleaded
Uprated fuel pump, plugs and leads
STi4 spolier
Tinted windows
Wheels were standard gold alloys, the P1 wheels I bought myself. Had it rolling roaded last week. 316 bhp and 312lb-ft torque. To say I was pleased would be an understatement. There are good ones out there and they do come up. I reckon you get a minter on Scoobynet once or twice every couple of months.
Last edited by James Neill; 08 December 2006 at 08:48 PM.
08 December 2006, 08:49 PM
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Absolutely perfect James - that's exactly what I'd want. Even mapped by god himself Russells black sti above ticks the boxes as well but he's promised someone else first refusal and he lives as far south as you get
Russells black sti above ticks the boxes as well but he's promised someone else first refusal and he lives as far south as you get
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08 December 2006, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Absolutely perfect James - that's exactly what I'd want. Even mapped by god himself Russells black sti above ticks the boxes as well but he's promised someone else first refusal and he lives as far south as you get
Russells black sti above ticks the boxes as well but he's promised someone else first refusal and he lives as far south as you get How did you get on with the sale of your S2000 ?????
Russ
08 December 2006, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
That is a LOT of car for £8k!!! I do have the luxury of waiting for the right car to come along which is a bonus
08 December 2006, 10:44 PM
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As I said in my email russell let me know if you can't agree terms with the other party - it would be an aids trip but if I feel its the right car I will make it.
I'd be a little scared of getting a car that had 'just' been rebuilt. I'd like to see a good few thousand miles to demonstrate that it was running well again.
Why does the STI engine let go more than say the UK ones? What's the most likely cause of these failures and is there anything you can do to protect yourself against it or reduce the risk?
I'd be a little scared of getting a car that had 'just' been rebuilt. I'd like to see a good few thousand miles to demonstrate that it was running well again.
Why does the STI engine let go more than say the UK ones? What's the most likely cause of these failures and is there anything you can do to protect yourself against it or reduce the risk?
08 December 2006, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
As I said in my email russell let me know if you can't agree terms with the other party - it would be an aids trip but if I feel its the right car I will make it.
I'd be a little scared of getting a car that had 'just' been rebuilt. I'd like to see a good few thousand miles to demonstrate that it was running well again.
Why does the STI engine let go more than say the UK ones? What's the most likely cause of these failures and is there anything you can do to protect yourself against it or reduce the risk?
I'd be a little scared of getting a car that had 'just' been rebuilt. I'd like to see a good few thousand miles to demonstrate that it was running well again.
Why does the STI engine let go more than say the UK ones? What's the most likely cause of these failures and is there anything you can do to protect yourself against it or reduce the risk?
New short endine, C/W crank, rods & pistons £3095.00
Set valves £714.00
Timing belt £105.00
Tensioner £196.00
Engine gasket and seal set £304.00
Belt covers £42.95
Oil filter £12.36
Engine oil £6.65
coolent £3.35
Air con vacuum and recharge £162.00
Mass air flow sensor £345.55
Exchange engine surcharge £500.00
Labour £1534.00
VAT £1262.14
Final total £8509.38
Date 13.09.01 Mileage 43,000
Company was, Tuning Japanese of Aldershot
So I would agree since this work was carried out the car has done 22k in the last 5 years, hope this helps
Russ
08 December 2006, 11:17 PM
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Kenny,
Most common cause of failures on a V5/6 is MAF sensor related, combined with owner ignorance. As we know the UK and STi cars on MY99/00 had iffy MAF sensors, which when starting to fail, start to go lean. The STi on V Power and no mods, is fine IMO. I had my stock map checked and it was working fine. the UK car has a lot more margin here. So you take your STi, and worse case, you decat it, up the boost, add a gay cone filter, use **** fuel etc and its going to go bang rather quickly. Add a MAF that is more or less bound to fail at some point and you have a bigger / quicker problem.
Sadly there are a lot of fooking idiots who's mate in the pub said this works
At the less extreme end of the scale, you could just have an STi with a bust MAF and use crap fuel - bingo....
IMO there's nowt wrong with the enigne if looked after and sensibly worked on. Only other failures ive heard of are the odd siezed oil pump - some go for the RCM upgrade.
I would have no hesitation in getting one - I just stuck a green dot MAF on the next day after buying mine, then got Bob to map it.
MB
Most common cause of failures on a V5/6 is MAF sensor related, combined with owner ignorance. As we know the UK and STi cars on MY99/00 had iffy MAF sensors, which when starting to fail, start to go lean. The STi on V Power and no mods, is fine IMO. I had my stock map checked and it was working fine. the UK car has a lot more margin here. So you take your STi, and worse case, you decat it, up the boost, add a gay cone filter, use **** fuel etc and its going to go bang rather quickly. Add a MAF that is more or less bound to fail at some point and you have a bigger / quicker problem.
Sadly there are a lot of fooking idiots who's mate in the pub said this works
At the less extreme end of the scale, you could just have an STi with a bust MAF and use crap fuel - bingo....
IMO there's nowt wrong with the enigne if looked after and sensibly worked on. Only other failures ive heard of are the odd siezed oil pump - some go for the RCM upgrade.
I would have no hesitation in getting one - I just stuck a green dot MAF on the next day after buying mine, then got Bob to map it.
MB
08 December 2006, 11:17 PM
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Russ, you got ripped off on that MAF big time. But you did use an iffy place.
You can buy the element for £90. I would complain.
There are a couple of v good engine builders on here who would have been waay cheaper
I think you can buy a new 2.5L for a couple of grand.
MB
You can buy the element for £90. I would complain.
There are a couple of v good engine builders on here who would have been waay cheaper
I think you can buy a new 2.5L for a couple of grand.
MB
Last edited by Dark Blue Mark; 08 December 2006 at 11:20 PM.
08 December 2006, 11:18 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Why does the STI engine let go more than say the UK ones? What's the most likely cause of these failures and is there anything you can do to protect yourself against it or reduce the risk?
1) Running lean at high revs/boost
2) Detonation due to fuel octane in the UK
Fixed with a remap and updated fuel pump.
Other than that it's people azzing them (eg, extended high speed runs causing the oil temp to go way to high) or not letting them warm up and down enough.
08 December 2006, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RB5RLP
Will do Kenny, looking at the folder full of recipts I have for the STi, i have a reciept for a.......
New short endine, C/W crank, rods & pistons £3095.00
Set valves £714.00
Timing belt £105.00
Tensioner £196.00
Engine gasket and seal set £304.00
Belt covers £42.95
Oil filter £12.36
Engine oil £6.65
coolent £3.35
Air con vacuum and recharge £162.00
Mass air flow sensor £345.55
Exchange engine surcharge £500.00
Labour £1534.00
VAT £1262.14
Final total £8509.38
Date 13.09.01 Mileage 43,000
Company was, Tuning Japanese of Aldershot
So I would agree since this work was carried out the car has done 22k in the last 5 years, hope this helps
Russ
New short endine, C/W crank, rods & pistons £3095.00
Set valves £714.00
Timing belt £105.00
Tensioner £196.00
Engine gasket and seal set £304.00
Belt covers £42.95
Oil filter £12.36
Engine oil £6.65
coolent £3.35
Air con vacuum and recharge £162.00
Mass air flow sensor £345.55
Exchange engine surcharge £500.00
Labour £1534.00
VAT £1262.14
Final total £8509.38
Date 13.09.01 Mileage 43,000
Company was, Tuning Japanese of Aldershot
So I would agree since this work was carried out the car has done 22k in the last 5 years, hope this helps
Russ
08 December 2006, 11:21 PM
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Personally for this sort of purchase I wouldn't buy if I'd cry having to spend half the value of the car again in the first year to fix potential breakages, but I'm pretty cautious about budgeting. I have to say I'd spend the typical amount that a Scooby engine rebuild would cost on a still in warranty Evo 260. Then when you've run it for a while and had the warranty sort out any trouble spend about £300 on a used exhaust and I'd remap it for you for nothing to take it to 350+ BHP.
You'd end up with a stronger engine, stronger gearbox, better intercooler, bigger injectors, less lag, more power and torque, better brakes, more grip, less understeer, better diffs, sharper steering than a classic STI.
You'd end up with a stronger engine, stronger gearbox, better intercooler, bigger injectors, less lag, more power and torque, better brakes, more grip, less understeer, better diffs, sharper steering than a classic STI.
08 December 2006, 11:23 PM
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John, yours is an exmple. UK block and was it over 400 bhp from it and no issue?
PS - Bob mapped my FQ300 and much happier now. MR wheels and Toyo's going on tomorrow so that should be better again still
MB
PS - Bob mapped my FQ300 and much happier now. MR wheels and Toyo's going on tomorrow so that should be better again still
MB
08 December 2006, 11:25 PM
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Surely a well set up knocklink would pick these problems up. It would detect crap fuel and if you run lean you'd start to knock and it would pick that up too? I guess for ultimate monitoring you'd want knocklink (for fuel quality), afr (for fuel ratio) and oil pressure (for oil pump problems).
08 December 2006, 11:26 PM
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James, fuel pump not needed on these cars until quite high BHP. Adding a pump to a mildly modded, or stock STi is no safeguard against knock. The pump is well within its flow / pressure curve.
MB
MB
08 December 2006, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Russ, you got ripped off on that MAF big time. But you did use an iffy place.
You can buy the element for £90. I would complain.
There are a couple of v good engine builders on here who would have been waay cheaper
I think you can buy a new 2.5L for a couple of grand.
MB
You can buy the element for £90. I would complain.
There are a couple of v good engine builders on here who would have been waay cheaper
I think you can buy a new 2.5L for a couple of grand.
MB
who spent an absolute fortune on the car, fair play to him I have reciepts for oil / sparkplugs etc...changes ever 3 months without fail, an absolute enthusiast 
since then the car has been decatted - and had a full re -map ekutek with new ECU and is running perfect, I had her rolling roaded 2 months ago at Enginetuner.co.uk in Plymouth and the fueling and boost were spot on, I have only ever run the car on V power and would never skimp on saving the odd £££££ or 2, Russ
08 December 2006, 11:27 PM
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Yes I did get 406 BHP from it on a 20G but it did need octane booster. In the midrange I ran it at 27 PSI. I knew it would blow if I kept running it like that, but pulled the engine when it was still healthy and then the problems started with the fancy replacement forged engines...
The above sort of boost level is routine on an Evo running 400 BHP on the stock turbo without octane booster, although I wouldn't push a 260 that far with the softer rods/cams/turbine housing.
The above sort of boost level is routine on an Evo running 400 BHP on the stock turbo without octane booster, although I wouldn't push a 260 that far with the softer rods/cams/turbine housing.
08 December 2006, 11:28 PM
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Kenny, just get it mapped and get the KL on there. I think they need setting up though. Mine had to be turned down to near half way to line it up with what was on the det cans.
Oil pressure, yep you can monitor it and have alarms with an SPA or similar. But if it siezes on the run, nothing will help you.
Crap fuel - just use V power. I dont belive the quality varies that much anyway.
MB
Oil pressure, yep you can monitor it and have alarms with an SPA or similar. But if it siezes on the run, nothing will help you.
Crap fuel - just use V power. I dont belive the quality varies that much anyway.
MB
08 December 2006, 11:30 PM
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I did'nt pay a penny mate it was one of the previous owners who spent an absolute fortune on the car, fair play to him I have reciepts for oil / sparkplugs etc...changes ever 3 months without fail, an absolute enthusiast since then the car has been decatted - and had a full re -map ekutek with new ECU and is running perfect, I had her rolling roaded 2 months ago at Enginetuner.co.uk in Plymouth and the fueling and boost were spot on, I have only ever run the car on V power and would never skimp on saving the odd £££££ or 2,
08 December 2006, 11:33 PM
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I was thinking about 12k Kenny, ie the cost of many a dog of an abused STI V plus the cost of rebuilding the broken bits. The Evo would probably be about 6 years newer and is simply better engineered than the old STIs. Most of the old Scoobies are dogs IMHO, distastefully "improved" and loved (driven the bollox off) by their owners. I'm not being snobby, but after classy motors, you'll end up with a dogshed if you don't spend a decent amount on a good Scooby, although to be fair the ones mentioned above do look nice and sound like the sort of thing you'd want.
Last edited by john banks; 08 December 2006 at 11:36 PM.