Dog basket

After visiting Brands on Friday I want to take my Sti on a track day.

Looking at the speed and performance of the cars there i think it may be a good idea to upgrade the brakes before an assault on the tarmac !!!!

Currently i have the standard 4 pots fitted with the standard 17 inch alloys.

Please could you give me some indication as to whether these are good enough, or if not what products would be a superior alternative....

Very much appreciated

Dog....

DrEvil

Seems a lot of people swear by the AP 6 pot brakes.. take a look at

AWD

Dog

If you search the Wheels, Tyres & Brakes section of the BBS you will find loads of info on this topic.

Dog basket

Many thanks....

Dog

Neil F

Hi "Dog".

I have an STi4 with 4pots. 2 Days before Brands I fitted a set of Mintex 1155 pads front and rear on standard discs, and despite staying out for the full 1/2 hour sessions all day I never once experienced brake fade.
I was pushing the car hard too(I only got overtaken twice all day and at least one of those cars was on slicks at the time).
All I will say is that I had to clean the carbonised 'grease' from the back of the pad shims the next day (obviously happened due to the intense heat generated)as the brakes were squealing, but an application of copper grease has them working smooth and silent again.
I think there is an advantage to big brake kits but if you want good performance on a budget just to try out a track day then this could be your answer.
Personally, I plan to go to braided hoses and grooved disks before I would consider upgrading the calipers.

Neil.

phil_ng

Hi - I have sti5 and had big problems with brakes - fade and big judder after a few heavy sessions. I dont believe harder pads help as I developed lateral cracks in the discs - I think harder pads would have mullered the discs even quicker. Im now upgraging to AP 4pots.

steve McCulloch

Neil F

All I can say is that u must be a professional racing driver? - I have an sti5 and I used to get fade even on normal roads, I understand that 'most' peoples normal brakes are totally ruined on 'most' track sessions.

I have AP 4 pots on, and whilst the braking performance is not much different to the sti 4 pots - I get no fade whatsoever

Dog

Upgrade the discs and pads first - I dont think the AP investment is worth it - unless u intend to do a lot of track outings (then again if AP lowered their ludicrous prices?)

Dog basket

Thanks for the various views - It looks like i have a number of routes to explore !!!!

People speak about the AP 4 pot kit - what about the 6 pot kit or the Brembo conversion offered by Scoobysport ???

Any comments appreciated.

From a beginner !!!!

Dog....

steve McCulloch

AP 6 pots - cant speak from personal experience but from what I hear there is very little difference between the 4 pots and 6 pots

Also - again - I believe (personally) that from general consesus that AP is rated way above anything else out there

BR Developments are the ones to contact for the AP's

sunilp

youre only saying that because you have 4 pots

Neil F

Steve McCulloch

Gee thanks; I'm not but maybe I should be?

I can only speak as I find.
As an example, late into one 1/2 hour session at Brands, I left it a bit late braking into Druids while trying to crack the 120mph top speed that I had been achieving all day on the pit straight. The car was under some serious stress (along with my undies) trying to get rid of the speed and there was a few twitches as the ABS kicked. Trust me, there was no brake fade, then or after.

Now I didn't say that my brakes are the ultimate, but I did say that there are some intermediate steps before committing to £1300 of Brembo/Bremsport/AP upgrade which are obviously superior (and should be for the money).

Incidentally, you and phil_ng both have STi5s; is there a difference in setup on that MY?
Also have either of you tried Mintex 1155s?

Come out with me on my next track day if you're around. You can assess my driving and my brakes all in one go.

Neil.

Neil F

I've just had a thought about something here.
Do STi5s still have a brake air duct incorporated into the front spoiler?
On the earlier bumper design (as with ST14s), the lower of the 2 "ribs" next to the spot/fog lights has a duct which pipes air straight to the disk area.
On the later bumper design the equivalent area (below the indicator) seems to be occupied by an orange plastic thing. So where is the equivalent duct (about 3" x 1 1/2" on mine)?
Is this part of the problems you describe?

Anyone confirm/deny/clarify this?

Neil.

AndyMc

Hi all

Some info for ya!
I recently did the LTR trackday at Oulton Park.My car has the Subaru 4 pots with standard pads and discs.
Like NeilF and much to my surprise they didn't fade all day no matter how hard I tried,but the pedal did go spongy and they started to drone so they didn't give me as much confidence as I would have liked.

I lost about 3mm from the pads which have also crumbled slightly on the edges.
At first I thought I'd got away with just slight scoring to the disc face but on closer inspection each one has a couple of cracks running from the outside edge all the way to the hub this is despite me following all the trackday advice.

At the end of the day I stayed out for 45 minutes and they still never faded,when I came off the rears were actually smoking slightly ,I had noticed that they were hotter than the fronts all day.

The straights at Oulton Park are quite short (I could only manage 105 mph max) but even so I could never give the brakes that amount of punishment for that length of time on the road,I have certainly never got that kind of MPG before,it's just a shame they are so low quality.
Judgeing by how the standard set-up performed I would have thought aftermarket pads and better quality crack resistant discs would be able to cope with trackdays OK.

Andy

chuckster

It was cold and wet at Brands, ideal for conserving your brakes. I'd say it was an exception rather than the norm that the brakes held out. My std 4pot callipers with DS2000's and Group N discs didn't last at Trax. Which is why I went for a big brake kit afterwards (Alcon). Alcons were outstanding at Brands. My first 'real' track day and they allowed me to be a 'passer' rather than a 'pass-ee' .
You say you have the 'standard' 17" wheels. Didn't STI's come with 16" as standard? This would limit your upgrade options if you are actualy running 16" - AP 6 pots and Alcons need bigger wheels.
Cheers
Chuck

Neil F

Dog.

You might be interested in the info in this "follow up" thread.