VW BBS forum poster gets lawsuit for libel!
21 November 2001, 11:44 AM
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It's a long read, but it's an interesting read.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=52126&page=1
It's in the USA, so their libel laws are slightly different. But it does go to show you can't be too careful!
21 November 2001, 03:46 PM
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Neil, amazing thread 
I read the whole 17 pages ...
It does indeed show how it can go wrong, but it also shows the power of the internet I guess. I don't think the dealer is actually gaining anything from this.
I read the whole 17 pages ...It does indeed show how it can go wrong, but it also shows the power of the internet I guess. I don't think the dealer is actually gaining anything from this.
, or is that a
21 November 2001, 05:25 PM
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And anyone who read all the way to the end would have seen that it appears that the lawsuit has been dropped 
The power of the internet, eh
And a very interesting precedent ...
The power of the internet, eh
And a very interesting precedent ...
21 November 2001, 05:42 PM
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Andrew, yeah, saw that too, but didn't see it confirmed. If it is true, surely VWoA must have forced the dealer to tone it down.
Productivity eh Chris Well ...
To be honest: I'm amazed at how well people generally behaved on that thread. There were a few "kill satan" posts, but they were the exception.
Will be interesting to see where this is all going. Hurah for free speach, but also fear for "let's slag company x off"... Very thin line.
Also noticed ... the dealer could have been a HERO if he just logged on to that site, apologized and offered to help in some way. Wonder how long it will take to see "Internet PR Jobs" emerging at the big companies.
An example: I have a certain type of Yamaha synth... Yamaha (Yomama ) are present on a bbs, and even ask input as to what sounds people would like to see in a next release of the software... amazing really when you think of it.
The internet will be an information/PR medium in the first place, not just a marketing medium. People will slowly start to understand.
Theo
Productivity eh Chris
Well ...To be honest: I'm amazed at how well people generally behaved on that thread. There were a few "kill satan" posts, but they were the exception.
Will be interesting to see where this is all going. Hurah for free speach, but also fear for "let's slag company x off"... Very thin line.
Also noticed ... the dealer could have been a HERO if he just logged on to that site, apologized and offered to help in some way. Wonder how long it will take to see "Internet PR Jobs" emerging at the big companies.
An example: I have a certain type of Yamaha synth... Yamaha (Yomama
) are present on a bbs, and even ask input as to what sounds people would like to see in a next release of the software... amazing really when you think of it.The internet will be an information/PR medium in the first place, not just a marketing medium. People will slowly start to understand.
Theo
21 November 2001, 05:54 PM
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To be honest: I'm amazed at how well people generally behaved on that thread. There were a few "kill satan" posts, but they were the exception.
I wonder if that's because they did'nt want to get sued too?
It was in the USA, and so thanks to their written constitution the guy had a very strong legal case. Over here it's not so clear cut.
I wondered if scoobynetters would jump to a fellow scoobynetter's aid if a similar scenario happened here. I sincerly hoped they would, however i'm a proactive person and so prefer the approach that's taken at this site. I.e the prevention of lawsuits by the moderating of posts before they get to this stage.
I wonder if that's because they did'nt want to get sued too?
It was in the USA, and so thanks to their written constitution the guy had a very strong legal case. Over here it's not so clear cut.
I wondered if scoobynetters would jump to a fellow scoobynetter's aid if a similar scenario happened here. I sincerly hoped they would, however i'm a proactive person and so prefer the approach that's taken at this site. I.e the prevention of lawsuits by the moderating of posts before they get to this stage.
21 November 2001, 06:11 PM
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Neil, agreed with the proactive point up to a certain... ermm... point
There are many shades of grey, but it should be possible for people to vent their spleen about how a supplier treated them. However, I don't like the slagging off that sometimes goes on either. I've seen it happen on here, and I think things got out of hand.
People should communicate, and if you are smart: a person that is complaining about your service on scoobynet is *the* opportunity to show how good you actually are. Pete Croney is a great example of that: sometimes people mention his company in a non-favorable way, but he always *responds*, doing a great PR job in the process.
Bob replied to the last BRD thread, and it all died quickly, without any intervention from the moderators AFAIK. That is good. Let people discuss, hear 2 sides of the story (and then there is the truth ), get on with their lives.
Lawsuits should be the last resort if non one wants to listen & the webmasters & moderators refuse to tone things down a bit.
You can delete a thread from Scoobynet, but people go on chat / email each other etc... I think actually more damage is done that way.
Mind you, I'm not saying that the moderators don't do a great job (they do), don't get me wrong, but I'm also saying that we should avoid paranoia.
I'm afraid I went a bit off topic now Oh well ...
Theo
There are many shades of grey, but it should be possible for people to vent their spleen about how a supplier treated them. However, I don't like the slagging off that sometimes goes on either. I've seen it happen on here, and I think things got out of hand.
People should communicate, and if you are smart: a person that is complaining about your service on scoobynet is *the* opportunity to show how good you actually are. Pete Croney is a great example of that: sometimes people mention his company in a non-favorable way, but he always *responds*, doing a great PR job in the process.
Bob replied to the last BRD thread, and it all died quickly, without any intervention from the moderators AFAIK. That is good. Let people discuss, hear 2 sides of the story (and then there is the truth
), get on with their lives.Lawsuits should be the last resort if non one wants to listen & the webmasters & moderators refuse to tone things down a bit.
You can delete a thread from Scoobynet, but people go on chat / email each other etc... I think actually more damage is done that way.
Mind you, I'm not saying that the moderators don't do a great job (they do), don't get me wrong, but I'm also saying that we should avoid paranoia.
I'm afraid I went a bit off topic now
Oh well ...Theo
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21 November 2001, 06:13 PM
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I'm half a lawyer, but a bit busy, and have only got internet at work with my boss a yard away. Can someone please point out the crucial pages? It looks really interesting. I read page 1 "start of the war" and page 10 "support from all other BBSs", and page ?16, "this lawsuit is ridiculous", but didn't have time for those in between.
Pleeeezze....
BJH
Pleeeezze....
BJH
21 November 2001, 07:14 PM
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Wow,That is some board and an interesting read.
I once had a problem with a P*&geot dealer after he made a "mistake" when he gave me a price for a trade-in on an Escort, which he had tried to rectify by adjusting the finance papers. This was pointed out to him, he went off and revised his figuers, when we received the new paperwork, guess what, same mistake which would have cost us over £500 more. This time we spoke to the Manager, he admitted that the Salesman was 'overworked' (we are talking 1997!!)and would try to placate us, he offered us some car mats at cost. We then learnt that the order for the car had not even been sent and that it would not arrive until the Escort was due it's MOT & tax. Seeing as the salesman had tried to commit fraud we decided to take it up with P*&geot UK, who stated that all complaints MUST be made through the dealership concerned, even though we were complaining about THAT dealership. To cut a very long story short we eventually settled for a multi stack CD player in the car for cost price. Upshot is, I'll have to think very long and hard about buying another P*&geot and will never set foot into the dealership again. Wish there had been a BBS like the VW one then ! Roll-on the Scooby!!!
I once had a problem with a P*&geot dealer after he made a "mistake" when he gave me a price for a trade-in on an Escort, which he had tried to rectify by adjusting the finance papers. This was pointed out to him, he went off and revised his figuers, when we received the new paperwork, guess what, same mistake which would have cost us over £500 more. This time we spoke to the Manager, he admitted that the Salesman was 'overworked' (we are talking 1997!!)and would try to placate us, he offered us some car mats at cost. We then learnt that the order for the car had not even been sent and that it would not arrive until the Escort was due it's MOT & tax. Seeing as the salesman had tried to commit fraud we decided to take it up with P*&geot UK, who stated that all complaints MUST be made through the dealership concerned, even though we were complaining about THAT dealership. To cut a very long story short we eventually settled for a multi stack CD player in the car for cost price. Upshot is, I'll have to think very long and hard about buying another P*&geot and will never set foot into the dealership again. Wish there had been a BBS like the VW one then ! Roll-on the Scooby!!!
21 November 2001, 07:49 PM
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Just a vote in support of the ScoobyNet policy of trying to avoid this sort of grief before it gets out of hand.
There are loads of potentially libelous posts on ScoobyNet, though fortunately nothing too serious too often.
What posters on fail to appreciate is that you can say anything about anybody, providing it is TRUE and that you can PROVE IT in court. Your word against theirs is not proof, and all those other people who supported your accusation verbally/privately etc have a habit of disappearing when a court appearance is required. The person you've libelled is not required to disprove anything.
Another thing, don't assume you can say what you like by hiding behind some kind of disguise such as writing P*&geot when we all know what it stands for, or refering to a supplier as "that well known dealer in Crooksville" when everyone on ScoobyNet knows exactly who you mean.
I work in publishing and have both received and issued writs and I can assure you that, at the very least, they are a huge waste of time (dozens of hours) and will run up a legal bill well into the £000s, win or lose.
That brief moment of sweet revenge can be very costly indeed
Richard.
PS Sorry to preach
There are loads of potentially libelous posts on ScoobyNet, though fortunately nothing too serious too often.
What posters on fail to appreciate is that you can say anything about anybody, providing it is TRUE and that you can PROVE IT in court. Your word against theirs is not proof, and all those other people who supported your accusation verbally/privately etc have a habit of disappearing when a court appearance is required. The person you've libelled is not required to disprove anything.
Another thing, don't assume you can say what you like by hiding behind some kind of disguise such as writing P*&geot when we all know what it stands for, or refering to a supplier as "that well known dealer in Crooksville" when everyone on ScoobyNet knows exactly who you mean.
I work in publishing and have both received and issued writs and I can assure you that, at the very least, they are a huge waste of time (dozens of hours) and will run up a legal bill well into the £000s, win or lose.
That brief moment of sweet revenge can be very costly indeed
Richard.
PS Sorry to preach
21 November 2001, 09:44 PM
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Richard,
I totally agree with your opinons and am NOT afraid to state who the Dealership was (and still are,selling the cars), the name of the Manager (who I know still works there as I have to pass the showroom everyday) nor the name of the salesman at the time. They admitted some sort of wrong doing by virtue of reducing the CD player which they would not have done if it had been a simple paperwork mistake. The point I was trying to make was that the unbelievable lengths that SOME showrooms/salesman will go to, to sell a car (not that we didn't know that already!)
Cheers,
Ed
I totally agree with your opinons and am NOT afraid to state who the Dealership was (and still are,selling the cars), the name of the Manager (who I know still works there as I have to pass the showroom everyday) nor the name of the salesman at the time. They admitted some sort of wrong doing by virtue of reducing the CD player which they would not have done if it had been a simple paperwork mistake. The point I was trying to make was that the unbelievable lengths that SOME showrooms/salesman will go to, to sell a car (not that we didn't know that already!)
Cheers,
Ed
21 November 2001, 10:53 PM
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Neil - The last 20000 posts where me and Michelle
Has anyone else seen the mail going round. It basically links to the site and includes Mr Farmers mail address, encouraging people to mail their thoughts. Seems to have started 2 days ago, which may explain the dropping of the lawsuit today. Can you imagine opening your mail and finding 80000 unread messages - yoikes shaggy
Has anyone else seen the mail going round. It basically links to the site and includes Mr Farmers mail address, encouraging people to mail their thoughts. Seems to have started 2 days ago, which may explain the dropping of the lawsuit today. Can you imagine opening your mail and finding 80000 unread messages - yoikes shaggy
22 November 2001, 02:05 PM
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Theo
In agreement with you there mate with both posts well said.........
I think oyur PR idea was good.......
Dealers should sit up and notice these kind of things and actually get some PR via the internet...I think a lot of problems would be solved if this action was took and they responded swiftly and constructively to criticism........as long of course as the criticism dished out was constructive.
Oh and LOL@FB we get everyhwere
In agreement with you there mate with both posts well said.........
I think oyur PR idea was good.......
Dealers should sit up and notice these kind of things and actually get some PR via the internet...I think a lot of problems would be solved if this action was took and they responded swiftly and constructively to criticism........as long of course as the criticism dished out was constructive.
Oh and LOL@FB
we get everyhwere
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