16 November 2001, 04:42 PM
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Called a certain company this afternoon to discuss getting a Link and all the associated equipment installed and spoke a very rude and ignorant chap with an accent ! Do they really want our business ?? Talking to potential customers like that surely must have put other people off.
Anyone else had this problem because I for one will not be putting any business their way.
Jase
Anyone else had this problem because I for one will not be putting any business their way.
Jase
16 November 2001, 04:45 PM
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Hi J.
There was a thread about this 2 weeks ago and it was deleted....
Don't worry m8 we all know who you are talking about....
Only problem is, his partner is one of the best mappers in the business.
If you want a solution then mail me.
There was a thread about this 2 weeks ago and it was deleted....
Don't worry m8 we all know who you are talking about....
Only problem is, his partner is one of the best mappers in the business.
If you want a solution then mail me.
16 November 2001, 08:35 PM
#6
Ecu Specialist
Few facts missing here "Lord"lucan
Point 1, ... you called to say you had bought a certain persons link from him and wanted it mapping.
When you were advised that there was a wait but that we thought it was worth waiting for you then indicated that you would/could get it mapped by PossumBourne Motorsport. (they are good but they need a car to put the ecu in as well as I do). When an attempt was made to explain why that was not possible and why "default" maps don't work then the conversation deteriorated.
Finally, the person whose name you quoted doesn't seem to be aware that you had, in fact, purchased it ... and if you had purchased it and then plugged it into your car it would almost certainly have damaged it.
I have never reacted to one of these threads before ... I probably never will again but I have to say that if people have nothing better to do than this then no one deserves our help. So make your minds up what you want to do and get on with it, if you don't want our services then at least we can get on with the rest of our lives. Its normally a pleasure helping the group of enthusiasts that drive the Impreza .... this sort of thing is nothing more than gratuitous and self indulgant and is, IN MY OPINION, (that covers the legal issues I think) totally unneccessary. Some seem to think you are be able to judge a book by its cover ... try reading it first !!! Some books are much harder to get into than others, you might just be suprised.
"Jason from Scoobynet" as you announced yourself, if you really want an ecu mapped then please get in touch and we will be glad to do it ... the leadtime is still the same. My email address is in my profile, I will be happy to discuss it with you directly but I will be explaining the self same issues to you.
Incidentally the power of the internet wanes very quickly when its repeatedly used for this sort of purpose. Novelty is only novelty when its novel.
Apparantly within the thread that was deleted the question was asked "why doesn't Bob respond" ... that thread was deleted before I read it although I was appraised of most of it. Well I have responded to this one ... genuine critisism is always justified (and personally welcomed). Jumping on the bandwagon for the sake of it is not.
Bob
Point 1, ... you called to say you had bought a certain persons link from him and wanted it mapping.
When you were advised that there was a wait but that we thought it was worth waiting for you then indicated that you would/could get it mapped by PossumBourne Motorsport. (they are good but they need a car to put the ecu in as well as I do). When an attempt was made to explain why that was not possible and why "default" maps don't work then the conversation deteriorated.
Finally, the person whose name you quoted doesn't seem to be aware that you had, in fact, purchased it ... and if you had purchased it and then plugged it into your car it would almost certainly have damaged it.
I have never reacted to one of these threads before ... I probably never will again but I have to say that if people have nothing better to do than this then no one deserves our help. So make your minds up what you want to do and get on with it, if you don't want our services then at least we can get on with the rest of our lives. Its normally a pleasure helping the group of enthusiasts that drive the Impreza .... this sort of thing is nothing more than gratuitous and self indulgant and is, IN MY OPINION, (that covers the legal issues I think) totally unneccessary. Some seem to think you are be able to judge a book by its cover ... try reading it first !!! Some books are much harder to get into than others, you might just be suprised.
"Jason from Scoobynet" as you announced yourself, if you really want an ecu mapped then please get in touch and we will be glad to do it ... the leadtime is still the same. My email address is in my profile, I will be happy to discuss it with you directly but I will be explaining the self same issues to you.
Incidentally the power of the internet wanes very quickly when its repeatedly used for this sort of purpose. Novelty is only novelty when its novel.
Apparantly within the thread that was deleted the question was asked "why doesn't Bob respond" ... that thread was deleted before I read it although I was appraised of most of it. Well I have responded to this one ... genuine critisism is always justified (and personally welcomed). Jumping on the bandwagon for the sake of it is not.
Bob
16 November 2001, 10:05 PM
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Bob
Well done for replying to this thread and setting the facts out. People get frustrated when they buy a new toy and can't get it to work straight away. Keep up your good work in mapping the cars, and people will keep comming to you, whatever the waiting time.
Duncan
Well done for replying to this thread and setting the facts out. People get frustrated when they buy a new toy and can't get it to work straight away. Keep up your good work in mapping the cars, and people will keep comming to you, whatever the waiting time.
Duncan
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17 November 2001, 01:32 PM
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Bob
Thanks for your reply, as you are probably aware there are two sides to every novel ! When I wrote my original post I was annoyed at being talked to like an idiot, not a customer. I think a customer care course is needed.
Jason from Scoobynet - oh I wish, the power ! Would never abuse Scoobynet, hence leaving company names out of my original post.
Never stated I had purchased the kit.
Possum Bourne will sell me the kit at a substantially reduced price, however I am aware you are the only mapper in the UK and would need to bring the hardware to you, this was discussed.
I wish you all the best Bob hope you can now get on with your life.
Jason
Thanks for your reply, as you are probably aware there are two sides to every novel ! When I wrote my original post I was annoyed at being talked to like an idiot, not a customer. I think a customer care course is needed.
Jason from Scoobynet - oh I wish, the power ! Would never abuse Scoobynet, hence leaving company names out of my original post.
Never stated I had purchased the kit.
Possum Bourne will sell me the kit at a substantially reduced price, however I am aware you are the only mapper in the UK and would need to bring the hardware to you, this was discussed.
I wish you all the best Bob hope you can now get on with your life.
Jason
17 November 2001, 02:15 PM
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Sorry to hijack the thread here guys 
but can i just take this opportunity to say thanks to Bob for the information he gave me when i was having technical difficulties with my Link. Top bloke indeed and i`m in no doubt that it`s not just me that would say that
Back on the thread now.
As has been said the Link isn`t a toy and we can get frustrated when we can`t get them working straight out of the box, but as there is only 1 top bloke it`s not unreasonable to have to wait for his services ? Unless you`ve read the manual and are prepared to accept the possibility of "total engine destruction if you make tuning errors" it`s better 2 w8 no ?
Pete
but can i just take this opportunity to say thanks to Bob for the information he gave me when i was having technical difficulties with my Link. Top bloke indeed and i`m in no doubt that it`s not just me that would say that Back on the thread now.
As has been said the Link isn`t a toy and we can get frustrated when we can`t get them working straight out of the box, but as there is only 1 top bloke it`s not unreasonable to have to wait for his services ? Unless you`ve read the manual and are prepared to accept the possibility of "total engine destruction if you make tuning errors" it`s better 2 w8 no ?
Pete
17 November 2001, 03:24 PM
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First off, I hope we can keep this thread tidy, so the moderators will not have to intervene.
I do want to make a couple of points though. Mind you, they are in no way meant to take sides or engender more heated discussions etc... we seem to have enough of those. They are just my opinion.
If you try to look at it from a distance, the "problem" (if it is one) may be that the company involved is not your average company. First off, they have no real competition AFAIK in the UK, so they can in a way decide freely how & when they deal with customers. The demand must be huge.
One little snippet from Bobs (most welcomed) reply may support my assumption: Bob talks about "helping the group of enthousiasts that drive the Impreza". From most companies, this would sound a bit strange (you would not accept for example large ISP's to say "we are helping you", you would more think in ways of "we are doing business". I hasten to add that I don't think this attitude is wrong in itself: I myself work pretty much from the same background. I am in the fortunate position of being able to "pick" my customers, as I have virtually no competition in my field of expertise.
One other comment from LordLucan made me think "how would I react ?". You prefer to buy the Link from PossumBourne because it may save you a few quid. Nothing wrong with that, *but* it's a human reaction to think "OK, so you buy elsewhere because it's cheaper, but now you want us to help you out (ASAP) now because you need the expertise". Again, I'm not judging you in particular on this, there are always many sides to a story, and a bbs is not always the best medium to tell one side of it (now I'm getting myself in trouble LOL ), I'm not saying you should not have posted it. Hang on ... What I want to say is that in many threads about ECU xyz, the hardware (and it's price) seems to matter sooo much. Although it *should* be obvious that the expertise, the "software", matters a lot more ... I personally always refused customers that wanted to save a few pennies on hardware, not because I wanted to do everything myself, but because I thought they were penny wise - pound foolish. What if something goes wrong, (Link stops to work for example), who is to blame ? Who has to solve it ? Warranty issues ? In return, I do the same when I am shopping: I buy from the people I trust, and if they are more expensive, most of the time (not always) that's because they don't want to cut corners, and neither do I. Like tecnopete said: a blown engine is a lot more expensive than the few quid you can save buying "elsewhere".
In the end: I'm not defending the company in casu, but I do know that the certainty of having a decent product in the end outweighs (for me personally) the personal likes/dislike you can feel for people in a company (justified or not, this is all very personal). However, it would be nice if you can have both of course (excellent product and excellent customer service). Sometimes real competion helps (for the customer), sometimes not.
Anyway, again this is all just my personal opinion, and I hope not to insult anyone with it. If one of the parties involved has a problem with it, please email me, and I will remove the offending bits, so Scoobynet has no trouble with my endless drivle
Theo
I do want to make a couple of points though. Mind you, they are in no way meant to take sides or engender more heated discussions etc... we seem to have enough of those. They are just my opinion.
If you try to look at it from a distance, the "problem" (if it is one) may be that the company involved is not your average company. First off, they have no real competition AFAIK in the UK, so they can in a way decide freely how & when they deal with customers. The demand must be huge.
One little snippet from Bobs (most welcomed) reply may support my assumption: Bob talks about "helping the group of enthousiasts that drive the Impreza". From most companies, this would sound a bit strange (you would not accept for example large ISP's to say "we are helping you", you would more think in ways of "we are doing business". I hasten to add that I don't think this attitude is wrong in itself: I myself work pretty much from the same background. I am in the fortunate position of being able to "pick" my customers, as I have virtually no competition in my field of expertise.
One other comment from LordLucan made me think "how would I react ?". You prefer to buy the Link from PossumBourne because it may save you a few quid. Nothing wrong with that, *but* it's a human reaction to think "OK, so you buy elsewhere because it's cheaper, but now you want us to help you out (ASAP) now because you need the expertise". Again, I'm not judging you in particular on this, there are always many sides to a story, and a bbs is not always the best medium to tell one side of it (now I'm getting myself in trouble LOL
), I'm not saying you should not have posted it. Hang on ... What I want to say is that in many threads about ECU xyz, the hardware (and it's price) seems to matter sooo much. Although it *should* be obvious that the expertise, the "software", matters a lot more ... I personally always refused customers that wanted to save a few pennies on hardware, not because I wanted to do everything myself, but because I thought they were penny wise - pound foolish. What if something goes wrong, (Link stops to work for example), who is to blame ? Who has to solve it ? Warranty issues ? In return, I do the same when I am shopping: I buy from the people I trust, and if they are more expensive, most of the time (not always) that's because they don't want to cut corners, and neither do I. Like tecnopete said: a blown engine is a lot more expensive than the few quid you can save buying "elsewhere".In the end: I'm not defending the company in casu, but I do know that the certainty of having a decent product in the end outweighs (for me personally) the personal likes/dislike you can feel for people in a company (justified or not, this is all very personal). However, it would be nice if you can have both of course (excellent product and excellent customer service). Sometimes real competion helps (for the customer), sometimes not.
Anyway, again this is all just my personal opinion, and I hope not to insult anyone with it. If one of the parties involved has a problem with it, please email me, and I will remove the offending bits, so Scoobynet has no trouble with my endless drivle
Theo
17 November 2001, 05:16 PM
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Well... No company can please everyone. Especially in a country where people buy big HP cars and then complain about milage and only fill up with degraded juice (95 octane).
In other words you get what you pay for. I've seen this happen on other boards with LINK ECU for different makes. A company in the US has dumped the LINK software and has introduced it's own. It's constantly updated and it's allready a full time job to support their own customers (who like me then all think they can tune a car), free of charge. After a while people bought ECU's from different suppliers and were slamming the above mentioned company that they didn't support them in the same way as their own customers.
JMHO
Nico van Steen
Netherlands
MY99 Impreza
MY00 EVO VI
In other words you get what you pay for. I've seen this happen on other boards with LINK ECU for different makes. A company in the US has dumped the LINK software and has introduced it's own. It's constantly updated and it's allready a full time job to support their own customers (who like me then all think they can tune a car), free of charge. After a while people bought ECU's from different suppliers and were slamming the above mentioned company that they didn't support them in the same way as their own customers.
JMHO
Nico van Steen
Netherlands
MY99 Impreza
MY00 EVO VI
17 November 2001, 06:10 PM
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A highlight of Bob's work can be seen today in the Southern section.
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=54839
I am not sure I really understand Jason's issue, or even Bob's reply.
However the majority of the 300BHP cars today were mapped by Bob, including the overall Winner - grrrrr
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 11/17/2001 6:15:30 PM]
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=54839
I am not sure I really understand Jason's issue, or even Bob's reply.
However the majority of the 300BHP cars today were mapped by Bob, including the overall Winner - grrrrr
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 11/17/2001 6:15:30 PM]
17 November 2001, 08:37 PM
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Well said chaps, Theo, you are a true diplomat ! See u at the Ring Easter..
My issue was not about Bob or his work or his prices, I agree with all the comments about his work and I really hope this thread does not deter Bob posting help for others. My issue was in the rude service I received when I called his company, as you probably guessed I didnt speak to Bob or I would have my car booked in already. Am I in the minority believing the first impression sticks.
I didnt want this post to be an attack on any individuals or a specific company however was just curious who else had been put off by bad customer service.
As Bob says 'lets get on with our lives' !!!!
Jase
My issue was not about Bob or his work or his prices, I agree with all the comments about his work and I really hope this thread does not deter Bob posting help for others. My issue was in the rude service I received when I called his company, as you probably guessed I didnt speak to Bob or I would have my car booked in already. Am I in the minority believing the first impression sticks.
I didnt want this post to be an attack on any individuals or a specific company however was just curious who else had been put off by bad customer service.
As Bob says 'lets get on with our lives' !!!!
Jase
20 November 2001, 12:07 PM
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Jase,
I know what you are trying to say. I recently purchased a new suite. First shop I went in the sales guy was rude and arrogant so I walked out. Went across the road and got one from them, so no commission for you chap! Learn some manners.
However I have spoken with BRD many times and have been given some excellent advice in a way that I found a little odd. I do not believe that his intentions were to be rude it is just the way he comes across to people.
I know what you are trying to say. I recently purchased a new suite. First shop I went in the sales guy was rude and arrogant so I walked out. Went across the road and got one from them, so no commission for you chap! Learn some manners.
However I have spoken with BRD many times and have been given some excellent advice in a way that I found a little odd. I do not believe that his intentions were to be rude it is just the way he comes across to people.
20 November 2001, 12:25 PM
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Mo
I totally agree with you on that one m8, spoke to him several times on the phone before actually meeting him on Sunday to collect my new exhaust. He's a real decent bloke with a passion for perfection.. I'd certainly have no hesitation to do business with him again anyway.
John
I totally agree with you on that one m8, spoke to him several times on the phone before actually meeting him on Sunday to collect my new exhaust. He's a real decent bloke with a passion for perfection.. I'd certainly have no hesitation to do business with him again anyway.
John
20 November 2001, 12:25 PM
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Bob>>Aren't you at least worried about the fact that these threads appear both here, and previously at 22b.com, every now and then?
They all got one thing in common - potential customers that feel they've been very badly mistreated by your partner?
There are always 2 sides to every story, BUT there's another equally important saying...the customer is always right.
I can only speak for myself, I felt *very* badly mistreated by your partner, and I took my business elsewhere....if several others starts to do this....well I'd be worried - even if I was the no1 supplier of a certain service.
I know I was a bit eager to get things running, who wouldn't be, but the fact that I was being called a fool, and various other things led to BRD loosing me as a customer - possibly forever.
But my personal grief has led to me having to learn how my car works, and this knowledge is worth much to me....so I feel like I came out on top...others may not be so lucky.
Anyway, I'm rambling - guys out there, be careful, but do not accept this kind of behaviour from a dealer (nor anyone other for that sake), no matter who he/she is.
My .02.
Regards
/Jerry
They all got one thing in common - potential customers that feel they've been very badly mistreated by your partner?
There are always 2 sides to every story, BUT there's another equally important saying...the customer is always right.
I can only speak for myself, I felt *very* badly mistreated by your partner, and I took my business elsewhere....if several others starts to do this....well I'd be worried - even if I was the no1 supplier of a certain service.
I know I was a bit eager to get things running, who wouldn't be, but the fact that I was being called a fool, and various other things led to BRD loosing me as a customer - possibly forever.
But my personal grief has led to me having to learn how my car works, and this knowledge is worth much to me....so I feel like I came out on top...others may not be so lucky.
Anyway, I'm rambling - guys out there, be careful, but do not accept this kind of behaviour from a dealer (nor anyone other for that sake), no matter who he/she is.
My .02.
Regards
/Jerry
20 November 2001, 12:30 PM
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I'd like to say this:
Bob's a really really helpfull chap. He's always answered my emails to him about my car thoroughly and in next to no time. Even when i havent spent any money with him
He's always helping people out with problems on this BBS, so please dont start slagging him off - he's a top bloke and we are lucky to have him posting.
Jza
Bob's a really really helpfull chap. He's always answered my emails to him about my car thoroughly and in next to no time. Even when i havent spent any money with him
He's always helping people out with problems on this BBS, so please dont start slagging him off - he's a top bloke and we are lucky to have him posting.
Jza
20 November 2001, 12:41 PM
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Agree with JZA - there can't be many people posting on here who have the depth of knowledge of Bob and who is happy to give free advice on the BBS (as well as replying to emails by what above posts say) when this is actually their business fo which most others would charge.
Don't knock him, or we all risk being worse off.
Dave
Don't knock him, or we all risk being worse off.
Dave
20 November 2001, 12:53 PM
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Well i've had several dealings with both partners in BRD since I've been running link (and buying other parts) for the last 18 months or so and have always found them to be friendly, helpful and generous.
Another interesting point to note is the most powerful car from the no excuses rolling road day at power engineering last weekend had purchased several parts and was mapped by.........yep you guessed it BRD.
I think it would be a sad day indeed if this resource was to cease.
Another interesting point to note is the most powerful car from the no excuses rolling road day at power engineering last weekend had purchased several parts and was mapped by.........yep you guessed it BRD.
I think it would be a sad day indeed if this resource was to cease.
20 November 2001, 01:31 PM
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don't mean to be rude, but from what I've read no-one is saying anything about bob or what he *himself* does/says, it's what his partner is saying, or more to the point, the way in which it is being said. then again I might be talking bs
I can't comment on wether this is true or not as I've never 'physically' spokent to anyone at BRD, might have exchanged the odd email with them, but not sure on that.
However, there have been comments on other threads, including threads that have been deleted, that go so far as to say that the manner in which people are spoken to is not one that you'd expect from someone who you are trying to purchase something from. I don't think anyone has questioned the quailty of the advice/information given, just the manner in which it is given.
Would the person in question, if they are on this bbs like to comment on this?
umm, think that's it, hope I've not pi$$ed anyone off, did not mean to, just wanted to type what I was thinking.
I can't comment on wether this is true or not as I've never 'physically' spokent to anyone at BRD, might have exchanged the odd email with them, but not sure on that.
However, there have been comments on other threads, including threads that have been deleted, that go so far as to say that the manner in which people are spoken to is not one that you'd expect from someone who you are trying to purchase something from. I don't think anyone has questioned the quailty of the advice/information given, just the manner in which it is given.
Would the person in question, if they are on this bbs like to comment on this?
umm, think that's it, hope I've not pi$$ed anyone off, did not mean to, just wanted to type what I was thinking.
20 November 2001, 01:35 PM
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I've never spoken to either Bob or his partner however earlier this year I was considering getting either a PPP or a Link and mailed BRD for some info and advice. Bob's partner emailed me back and was, frankly, very helpful. In the end I must have received about 4 or 5 very lengthy emails from him fully explaining the system and the benefits thereof. As someone who knows not a lot about cars (not my job) and freely admits as much, I found it refreshing to deal with someone who had the patience to explain all the ins and outs of the system to me. I'm actually a bit embarrassed that I didn't buy one in the end (I still might though!)
Targeting individuals on a public forum like this is not particularly constructive. If you've been conned or ripped off then you would be right to warn everyone. If you just don't like someone then fine, take your business elsewhere.
Frankly this thread serves little or no purpose and could do with a damn good
ing
Targeting individuals on a public forum like this is not particularly constructive. If you've been conned or ripped off then you would be right to warn everyone. If you just don't like someone then fine, take your business elsewhere.
Frankly this thread serves little or no purpose and could do with a damn good
ing