[MikeyB]

Right then, MY03 WRX has hit some major problems.

I did a mini track day at Bruntingthorpe proving ground yesterday, I set out by checking oil level, tyre pressures, fuel level, wheel nut torque etc, all the basics before you decide to run your car on a track. Everything was perfect so I set off gently warming the car up on a 120 mile drive to the track in Leicestershire from West Yorkshire. Car running great, I arrived at the track and give the car 20 mins rest before I get ready for the first 5 laps.

I did 5 laps around the track at about 70% of the cars capability before I came in, I took it to 5,000 rpm before changing up.

I came into the pits, lifted the bonnet and gave the car a good 20 mins cool down, whilst gently rolling the car back every 10 mins to keep the heat off the brake discs.

Second run, I set off, 3 laps into it at about 90% of what the car can do, pushing 6,000 rpm before changing up, I get this horrible tapping noise coming from the engine!! : 0 I immediately cut the revs and coast into the pits (with the engine still running), I quickly shut the engine off ASAP and check out the oil levels, THERE ISN’T ANY!!

The noise sounded like a coin hitting a pipe on every burble.

I put 2 litres of oil straight into the car to see if that will help and to see if it’s leaking anywhere… no trace of oil underneath the engine so it must of burnt the oil off whilst tootling around the track??

I’ve had the car transported upto Scooby Clinic and from their initial look they’ve found that the crank had seized onto a conrod. Now I am now-way an expert or even novice when it comes to engine internals so I have no idea what that means…

Basically, they are stripping the engine down this week and will be letting me know if I need a new ‘bottom-end’.

My question is, I have about 4K available to spend on this, do I repair and sell, or do I repair and upgrade? I could get a new 2.0, 2.2 or 2.5 bottom end, bigger turbo etc?

A set of DEFI gauges are getting installed no matter what to monitor the obvious.

Any advice would be great, thanks MikeyB

paulmann

Basically the Blue Bar is the Con Rod (Connecting Rod) and the Green is your crackshaft.

The conrod rotates the crack, if one has siezed then the tapping noise is the conrod banging against the side of crank.
Also dont forget your oil dipstick will only measure probably a litre at the top of the sump. so you would have probably had 4-5litres below. The missing litre would have still been around the engine. To do a good oil check I like to do it when the engine is cold and all the oil is in the sump where its measured.
You can only truley measure this (and be totally ****) by draining it all out.

Eprom

It would be interesting to find out where all your oil had gone, burning it off around the track, would have been like a smoke screen following you.
Hope you get it sorted.

[MikeyB]

Any advice anyone?

Ben v7

This could have happened as a result of oil stravation. Cornering very hard for a period of time can pull all the oil to one side of the engine - hence the other side loses lubrication... must be some explanation for this happening on, i'm guessing, a standard engine.

I'd personally get the engine rebuilt with strengthened internals - that way you've got lot's of scope for modification and these sorts of problems are less likely to occur. Also might want to get whatever it's called (mind gone blank) fitted to prevent against oil starvation if your using it reguarly on the track - think they are about 500 pounds.

DARKDESTROYER9

i think what your on about is a baffled sump

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Driving at 90% is extremely unlikely to cause oil starvation due to g forces unless the oil was low to start with. Most people 90% is around 70% of what the car can do in reality.

A baffled sump is a good idea, especially if you push the car right to the edge, and use super sticky slicks or semi-slicks.

What was the mileage on the engine? Fuel grade (on track Subarus can get hot and get quite quickly which could cause this type of failure)? Oil grade?


In terms of rebuild - you mention lots of possibilities - what outcome do you want to achieve. If it is easy power and torque, but not too much of it you could get a complete 2.5 short engine, good for 350bhp.

If you want more then you would need a short engine that had been rebuilt with rods and pistons and another turbo - but now you have spent more than 4k.

Or rebuild your 2.0 engine strongly and go for a sweet revving 350 plus with a new turbo - now you are just about on budget.

Speak to Clinic and Pat - between them you will be full of ideas.

Rannoch

Shark Man

If you lost oil, it must have gone somewhere...holed piston or damaged piston ring is likely, as is a leaky turbo (doesn't "have" to smoke if its a slight leak), or head gasket (unlikely). You will soon know the cause after the strip down

If its running low, your likely to get oil surge while cornering or braking, staving the engine of oil.

If the bearing has seized, it is likely to have spun (the shell that is fixed to the conrod spins round instead of staying still) This blocks off the oil holes that feed the other bearings downstream of the failed bearing. Resulting in damage to other rotating components and any oil that does make it through is contaminated with debris. You were lucky, if you had driven a bit futher the conrod with the seized bearing would have broke and would have gone straight through the engine block, so at least the block should still be re-usable providing it hasn't spun a main bearing.

wrxseeker

iTrader: (1)

Baffled sumps arent £500 AFAIK

See:

http://www.apiengines.com/other_parts.php

COLZO

Don`t mean to hijack the thread but when is the best time to check the engine oil level cold or warm?

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Was'nt there a recall on 03 WRX's and STi's due to Oil starvation problems ???

davedipster

No it was an AVCS problem on some build dates, causing oil leaks on sti's.

[MikeyB]

My cars mileage is 50K and the oil I use is 5W-30. Scooby Clinic are stripping the engine down as we speak to find out if there is damage to the bottom-end.

davedipster

Hope it's cheaper than you think m8.
Get some mods fitted while its apart

dipster

Neilo

5w30 oil isnt what you want to use and especially not on track. 10w50 minimum for track use.

Also, why waste your money on defis when all they are are normal guages that do a few fancy things? they still arent acturate anyway.....save yourself about 600 quid and just get a decent set of regular guages IMO.

However, this is a bloody unlucky situation mate and i hope you get it sorted soon.

[MikeyB]

Cheers Neilo, the oil was provided by Subaru themselves as I told them my situation!! Bloody idiots!

Nevermind, I think this is one leason learned, I know expensively, but learned well!

Neilo

dont worry mate, ive been there too....i just hope it aint off the road for 5 months as mine was.....

think carefully about what you want though.

(mines an 03 wrx too by the way)

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear about this mate , but what about the warranty..? If it's an 03 it can only just be out of the 3 years at most..!

Keep us informed..

Shark Man

Subaru do reccomend 5w-30 in your engine for that year of car. And they are correct to use such grade in "normal operating conditions" without engine modifications.

However under "extreme conditions" you should be using a heavier grade oil with better high temeprature viscosity such as a 5w40, 10w40 or even a 10w50.

Read the owners manual - it says it there (read extreme as for towing and hot climates = high oil temp, i.e same as track day driving).

I don't think this was the intial cuase of teh failure, but it wouldn't have helped.


I'm guessing that seeing your at the clinic, you have no warrntee. But if you do have a warrantee, I suggest you inform Shaun (webmaster) or a mod and get this thread deleted, as you won't have a leg to stand on if they find its been on the track (as per clauses in the small print). certain influential people are known to browse this forum.

B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

I stand corrected

[MikeyB]

The car ran out of warranty at the end of June.

So is the 10W-50 ok to use from day to day? Aswell as tracking it?

Shark Man

2months out, thats a bummer. Somtimes if you make your dissapointment vocal enough at the dealers they may reduce the cost as a "goodwill" gesture. But it usually still ends up costing as much, if not more than a independant engine builder.

Neilo

i normally use Motul 300V 15w50 in mine but its a modified engine now (but even when it was stadnard i still used it) at the mo i have MIllers 10w60 in it, as its seeing the track a fair few times recently.

Its absolutely fine for day to day. Mine is my daily hack.

[MikeyB]

Cheers Neilo, think I'll start to use the same.

RB5_245

As said if you shut the engine off straight away and check the oil you'll get an abnormally low reading, maybe even off the dipstick.

You need to check when cold, or leave it (imo) 20-30 mins. You should get a reasonable reading pretty soon after stopping though.

Must be checked on a flat surface.

Dave

Shark Man

I've never had an issue with oil level differences between hot and cold Just leave off it a minute before checking on level ground.

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

My bugeye gearbox went bang 3 months after I bought it and 5 months after the warranty ran out. Subaru eventually agreed to stump up some of the cost of the gearbox rebuild because they acknowledged it was a manufacturing problem.

They paid £700
I paid £1600

Two months later I joined this forum and found out APIEngine's would do a complete gearbox rebuilt for around £900.

Happy days.

p.s. I've always been told to measure the engine oil level with the engine cold, so that all the oil has drained into the sump. If you mesure the oil with the engine warm (or after a run) and then add more oil to the 'max' line, you risk over filling the engine.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

It's definitely worth making some noise about warranty as 2 months is nothing. If/whatever they offer you, you don't have to go along with iyswim..?

RapidSeven

Putting 4k into the same car on something you really shouldnt be spending it on is financial sucicide in my opinion.

A jerry can and a box of matches springs to mind.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Even using 5/30 it should'nt nave blown after only 3 laps! Hving said that, the loss of oil is a key to this I feel? Contrary to what was said regarding possible amount of oil remaining in the sump, the engine holds 4.5 litres, you would need to lose approx 1.5 litres to take it off the dipstick. If this is the best scenario, you would have just 3 litres left. With the engine working hard, a lot of that is flying around, leaving the possibility of the oil pick-up tube being starved during very hard cornering or braking. The result could possibly be just what you've experienced! Got a feeling the oil level is the key factor here, not the oil grade - although not ideal for prolonged hard use.
If you do make noises to the dealer, for Gods sake lie about where you were when it happened!
JohnD