R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has heard of the above or tried it out before. JEM (JAP PARTS) are down the road from me and, when i went in there the other day and the guy was raving on about how good it was and it was japans no 1. i dont know much about motor oils but would this work well on a scoob?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Nope.
Any 0 rated oil isnt good for a scoob, you want a 5, 10 or 15 rated and no less than a 40, so 5w40, 10w40, 15w50 are the most common ones to go for.

Tony

Shark Man

Hello, why are you quoting only the 1st number?? It means nothing when used on its own!

.....0w50 is the same HOT viscosity as 15w50, or 10w-50, or 5w-50, or 20w50, hell,, even a straight 50 weight monograde!
(hint...first number is for COLD rating - lower the better )


Mind, it would need a bucket load of VI improvers to get such a hugly impressive viscosity range as broad as that, the widest I previously seen is 5w-50 as seen on European Mobil 1 (not sold in UK).

This isn't a problem, unless the oil is subject to usage outside it's limitations (excessive temperature, and not chnaged enough) with a 6month 7.5K mile service interval, as per Classic shape Imprezas, this is rarely a problem.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

True in most, the 0 rating is the pour rating, think its something like -40 to -45 dec c, but its also thinner..... yes it has the same protection as a 50 rating but its also thinner..... (same as a 5 rating but I also dont use a 5 rating either )
A 10 or a 15 rating is better than the above, first we dont have extreme temps that require these oils, second if you want a thinner oil running around an engine that heats up very quickly... oh and then think of gravity, thinner will also drain (theoretically) to the sump faster leaving less protection on start up.

Tony

Shark Man

Not quite, They are still the the same thickness when at 100degrees C. As they both in the range of 16.3 to 21.9 cSt as per their branded SAE specifcations.

Here's a little table I have on file showing theoretical differences between oils with the same hot ratings:

Grade:.....Viscosity @ 0degC....Viscosity @ 10degC....Viscosity @ 100degC
10W/50....1039cSt..................538.9cSt........... .......18cSt
15W/50....1376cSt..................674.7cSt........... .......18cSt
20W/50....2305cSt..................1015cSt............ .......18cSt

Which is worse for your engine? Well, for the average driver, the 20w-50 and 15w-50. The only issue with the 10w-50 or 5w-50 etc is the increased use of viscosity improvers, which i've already mentioned (and will mention again - no dioubt).

Now, you could "assume" the 0w or 5w uses a thinner basestock to achieve its cold properties but without the data sheets you won't know how it performs either way. In fact, some brands that are thicker when cold are actually thinner when hot when compared to what you say is a "thinner" oil, when you would assume the opposite. I.e a 0w50 could be 21.5cSt at 100degrees C, whilst a 15w50 could be 16.4Cst, although you would assme the latter is thicker, it is actually thinner.

An actual example: Castrol GTX 15w-40 vs Castrol Magnatec 10w40, which is thinner at high temperature?

The latter, you would say? Nope. GTX is 14cSt @100 degrees. The Magnatec is 15cSt @100 degrees.

OK in reality, 1cst is abolutely nothing, as would be 5cSt, seeing that when cool (40degrees) it is measured in hundreds, and when cold it is measured to the tune of thousands.

The rating system isn't specific enough on the oil's properties under all conditions. So it cannot used that to make these kind of assumptions.

The only assumption that can be made is that, like all multigrade oils, it needs viscosity improvers. The wider the viscoisty range, typically, the more the oil is reliant it is on these. Is this a problem? No. Unless the oil is operated oustide its limitations. As they are susceptible to shear stress and breakdown over a prolonged period under temperature close to or outside its intended operating limits. Essentially what happens is it loses the broad viscosity range - it'll be thicker cold, and thinner hot. Say a 0w50 could degrade to a 10w40. However, if the oil is changed regulary enough for the operating conditions, this will not happen.

And don't start on the drain back theory. Not all oil drains back to the sump. Any oil in main and big end beraings, and crank galleries does not drain back or leak out (unless the engine is knackered) - and that's where it is needed under start-up anyway. The oil left under surface tension is enough to provide a satisfactory boundry layer without pressure or flow (it's why you can do an oil/filter change and have zero oil pressure or flow for several seconds without suffering any bearing damage). There is more than enough for protection in the milliseconds that the engine's bearings are without any oil flow or pressure when starting up. If this wasn't the case, engines would need rebuilding on a routine basis.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I see what your getting at
BUT.....
On say a ford mondeo, yes a 0 or 5 rating is great a 10 rating is better because we dont need the cold start and 10 is good for about -25.
I personally use motul 15w50 because its good for my turbocharged (note the turbocharged part ) engine.
I have yet to find a decent 0 or 5 rated oil that is any use in a turbocharged engine (engine temp may be 100 deg c but the turbo runs considerably hotter and thinner oils can evaportate) and it doesnt take the turbo very long to reach these higher temps.
Best way of comparing oils?
Oil temp and oil pressure gauge

Tony

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

apparently this is the first time they're trying to market this oil outside of japan. could it be because of the higher temperatures out there this was a more suitable oil for them. below is what the webite says about it:

Fully-Synthetic Ultra Wide Range Motor Oil
(Racing grade / API SM 0W-50)ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 is the ultimate Fully-synthetic oil for gasoline engines. Applying the advanced oil technology developed for auto racing by the Nippon Oil Corporation, this motor oil has an ultra wide 0W-50 viscosity range, so it provides outstanding performance from the very coldest to the very highest temperatures. ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 is especially suited for sports cars with large engine displacements and high outputs.• SPECIAL FEATURES

1. Fully-Synthetic Gasoline Motor Oil
   When high-output cars with large engine displacements are driven for long periods at high temperatures and heavy loads, they need the outstanding heat resistance and oxidation stability that only a synthetic motor oil can provide. Because ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 is made from 100% synthetic oil, it has an ultra wide 0W-50 viscosity range that ensures superb starting performance even at cold winter temperatures as well as excellent oil film retention at hot summer temperatures and during high-speed driving at heavy engine loads.
2. Outstanding High-temperature Oxidation Stability and Coking Resistance
   Because ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 is made from a carefully designed blend of 100% synthetic base oils and optimized additives, its high-temperature oxidation stability is vastly superior to motor oils made from mineral base oils. ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 also has outstanding coking resistance, an essential property for protecting turbo rotors that are operated at high temperatures and speeds.
3. Superior Drive-Train Wear Resistance and Excellent Cleanliness
   ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50’s synthetic base allows it to maintain a strong oil film even at high temperatures, speeds, and loads. Its antiwear protection is particularly effective in the drive trains of overhead cam systems, where the lubrication conditions are especially severe. This motor oil also has superb thermal and oxidation stability, so it maintains excellent engine cleanliness by suppressing sludge formation, which can cause engine seizures and pump clogging.
4. Meets Latest API Standard
   The outstanding performance of ENEOS Premium Ultra 0W50 is proven by its certification for the SM specification, the latest motor oil standard issued by the American Petroleum Institute.

• APPLICATION
  Motor oil for gasoline engines.
• APPLICABLE VEHICLES
  Sports cars with large displacements and high outputs, high-performance passenger cars, racing-specification cars, etc.
• CONTAINERS
  4L
• Typical Properties
  
  Quality grade
  RG/API SM
  SAE viscosity grade
  0W-50
  Appearance
  Orange
  Density (15°C), g/cm3
  0.847
  Flash point (COC), °C
  232
  Kinematic viscosity (40°C), mm2/s
  104(100°C), mm2/s
  18.0
  Viscosity index
  192
  Pour point, °C
  –45.0
  TAN, mgKOH/g
  2.3
  TBN (HCl), mgKOH/g
  6.4
  Color (ASTM)
  L3.0

Shark Man

But thats more down to the brand, composition and basestock of the oil morseo than its SAE viscosity ratings.

A motorsport/high performance branded Ester synthetic is going to fare better above 100degrees than a hydrocracked mineral. Where the previous, such as your favourite Motul, 300v is less reliant on VI improvers and thus more shear stable and capeable of withsantnding high temperatures without breakdown. This has little to do with its rated viscosity, but what it is made with.

Not knowing what basestock the Nippon uses, crictising it solely on viscosity numbers seem a bit narrow minded. But knowing that oils made by Mobil, Castrol, Q8, Elf, Fina, Shell, Total etc are all branded as full synthetics, yet use hydrocracked mineral basestocks, I will agree it's likely to follow the trend

Have you tried Mobil 1 5w-50? You will find it fares better at extreme high temp than your average 10w40, purely due to its viscoisty rating, even though its a hiydrocracked mineral, and it is thinner in cold temperatures.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

As a matter of interest, before 1996(ish) Mobil 1 in the UK WAS 5/50 I used it for ages.
Whilst 0/50 sounds ideal, I wonder how they achieved the wide rating? As has been said, probably with a load of VI improvers. It would be interesting to know the ester content (if any) If it is ester based, I would have thought they would have made a thing about it!
JohnD

Shark Man

Indeed, it would be nice to know what is in it. It's annoying when you see something advertised as 100% synthetic knowing that it may not be. Although you could be safe to say it would be better than a 10w40 semi-synthetic, which is what Subaru usually reccomend.

As for the 5w50 Mobile 1. You can still get it in Europe (35Euros for 4litres too ). Old RV8 TVR owners seemed to like it, seeing the old RV8 engines do prefer a thick oil. Why it's not sold here anymore is a mystery, maybe lack of demand or forseen market. TBH I am amazed that places like Halfords still stock Mobil 1 15w-50 which is pretty much un-usable in 90% of cars on the road.

Mr Bat

Pete !!!!

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

This oil is absoloutly excellent, ive used it since it was released in the U.K and you most definately feel the difference, Ive got a 1993 WRX running 280BHP and I can honestly say the engine is alot smoother and quiter whilst running on Eneos 0w50 oil as opposed to others.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Where is it available and how much?
Always find oils supplied in 4ltr containers bloody annoying when you run a Subaru! (4.5ltrs)
JohnD

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

you can buy it from japparts in colindale north west london or you can order it from the website which is Japarts

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, would like know more about this oil.
What has oilman got to say about it?

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

whoz oilman??lol Eneos do a 5w30 version of the fully synthetic oil too it might be worth trying that out

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Don't expect any glowing recommendation - he doesn't sell it!

JohnD

pslewis

YES???

I've said it before ... I'll say it again ... anything costing more than Subaru (remember them? they are the people who spent ££££££MILLIONS designing and developing your car?) recommend is a complete and utter waste of money if the car is serviced according to its schedule.

5 Litres of Comma Semi-Synthetic for £15 is ABSOLUTELY fine!!

pslewis

He posts on ALL the Car Forums I visit selling his wares ....... he says the same on here as he does on the Skoda Forums.

It's cut'n'paste - and I would do the same, he is in business to sell oil - and the more expensive he can convince/scare you into buying the better!! .... I have to hand it to him, he scares the crap out of some of you and mops up the profits!! He's a good lad ... but, please, don't get the idea he has your oil requirements at the forefront of his advice

If he sells it it will come highly recommended .... if he doesn't then a nose will be thrown up when it is mentioned.

My Car Parts Retailer, who sells to the independant traders and servicing mechanics, sells them the Comma Oil I use ........... "nowt wrong with it Pete" he says - don't get hoodwinked by fancy names and fancy packaging.

But, I have learned that the readers of these pages are not Engineers and can get conned quite easily by the scaremongers and **** brigade ..... I offer concrete proven advice from many, many years watching fads come and go.

One thing is constant though 'A Fool And His Money Is Soon Parted' - anyone buy a CockLink lately?? I rest my case

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Regardless of the facts and figures, you stand a very good chance of breaking a Subaru turbo engine, if you run it on 0W 0r 5W in APi's experience.

David APi

Use it by all means - just keep this number handy; 01926 614333

pslewis

I've just realised that I responded to a call made on 7th August Last Year!!

What a wally I am

Anyway - I agree with what David from API says - 0W Oil is too thin for Scoobies and he will be seeing your engine internals soon

Gazz300

Eh?
If he sells it it will come highly recommended .... if he doesn't then a nose will be thrown up when it is mentioned.

My Car Parts Retailer, who sells to the independant traders and servicing mechanics, sells them the Comma Oil I use ........... "nowt wrong with it Pete" he says

I wonder why? He sells the comma stuff. No difference between Para 1 and 2 as far as I can tell?

pslewis

On the contrary ... I have been using him for 25 years - he has no need to hoodwink me, also - he sells all other oils, from the very expensive to the very cheap.

He knows whats going on in car parts, the Comma Oils sit in mid-stream .... like I said - the traders and independants use them all the time (THATS real money going for real stuff!!)

Shark Man

Eeep, the numpties have ruined a vintage thread

pslewis

You're right ... I did see your contribution above, what was it now?

Oh yes, this was the sentence of wisdom:-

"It's annoying when you see something advertised as 100% synthetic knowing that it may not be. Although you could be safe to say it would be better than a 10w40 semi-synthetic, which is what Subaru usually reccomend"

Define BETTER ..... and why would it be BETTER in my standard UK Impreza than what Subaru (after their ££millions of research) recommend??

It's meaningless words like 'Better' that make the whole thread laughable - so, yes, ruined ......... by you, the No.1 Numptie

Shark Man

It's better. And like I said, better than what Subaru recommend.

Subaru probably recommend semi synth, because of the wide variation in quality of synthectic oils due to the sector being riddled with synthetic "branded" mineral based oils. Meaning they cannot use extended drain periods without either spending billions instead of their petty millions to develop their own oil independant oil specifications standards like Merc, VW, BMW, or even GM. Call it conjecture if you will, but it seems to me like they are a bunch of cheapskates, if you ask me

But that doesn't stop me using semi-synth in my shoitbox (subaru). As my useage doesn't warrant it. And at the (much lower than retail) prices I get it for, why should I pay more for a rebranded mineral oil with extra added whizzbang?

Now, if the application were for something more special than that of a common garden rice rocket, then a "better" oil would be required. And that require investigation to find a oil that stands up to its "synthetic" claims.

Or maybe if I can't be arsed to change it every 6months, I could use a "better" oil instead, and do it every 12+months like I can with decent cars without any harm.

pslewis

OK, so what I do is perfectly right ...... change every 6 months for what Subaru recommend?

Using 10W-40 Semi .... and running a standard UK Impreza.

There is, actually, no 'better' oil than the one I use because any possible benefits are not required.

Thats why I asked what you meant by 'better' .... because I would use 'better' oil in mine if it exsisted for my use - it doesn't, so I am using the very best possible .............. which, of course I knew anyway

Shark Man

For your shed you can use whatever gunk you like; Even the most prehistoric of oils meet Subaru's specifcation. Of course, you could use a better oil and not need to change it as often. Think of the amount of tenners you'd save by not needing to change filter so often, not to mention the sump plug washer

pslewis

Shed??

Gunk??

Prehistoric Oils??

I have never said don't renew Filter (£5) or Sump Washer 80p

But, the sensible line is drawn at paying more than £15 for 5 Litres of Oil which offers absolutely no benefit to the Owner who renews their Oil every 6 months/5,000miles!!