Gutmann pug

Just been to the pub with a friend who had PPP fitted to his UK 06STi last week.

He is extremly unhappy with the result. He explains that the car felt quicker before, with more low down urgency than now with the ppp.

He has complained to the dealer who is going to have a look at the car this week. I have a feeling they are going to say the car is fine.

Couple of questions.....

1. Have any of you had issues with the PPP on 06STi's?
2. Does he have the right to ask for it to be removed if he isnt happy?
3. With ref to question 2, could he ask Subaru to prove they have supplied a car with the correct bhp under the sale of goods act?

At the moment he feels he has totally wasted £1,700


Gary

Gutmann pug

61 views and no replies .........

corradoboy

Can't comment on '06 cars, but I have a mate who's had 2 blobeye's, both PPP'd and both he has been disappointed with. The 1st he had TSL upgrade what was needed into the 333 spec with a Richard Bulmer map which improved things dramatically. The 2nd he is more disillusioned with after communicating directly with Prodrive before he agreed to buy it to try and get some assurances that he wouldn't have the same issues, which he has. On the other hand, another friend had an 03 STi with PPP and it was awesome. When we drove the 2 cars back to back we could not believe the difference, so by producing a safe off the shelf generic package they sometimes fall foul of natural variance.

Get it RR'd by a good mapper who can write a report about why the car is performing badly and see if it carries any weight with the dealer, IM and Prodrive. IIRC (2nd hand info) my mates was overfuelling prior to boost and then going off cam at 5.5k revs (whatever that means ). After TSL did their magic it pulled like a train from 2.8k right to the redline.

Neil W

I have an 06Sti PPP and the PPP certainly made a big noticeable difference to mine. Gave loads mopre torque low down and pulls hard in every gear to the red line.

The only problem I have with it is a rattle from the back box so it will be going back to the dealer to get that sorted.

Gutmann pug

After I had told Mark about the difference PPP would make to his car I feel partially responsible ( I blame you lot for me saying it would change it ) .

He will not be going down an after market route, he is a new car, warranty man through and through.

I would suggest its Subaru's responsibility to prove they have supplied what it says on the box not his responsibility to prove they havent.

From his comments it appears that the dealer knows jack **** anyway.

I suggested he take the car to the dealer and drive his and a std STi back to back to see if he can feell the difference.

Leeroy

I don' recall the PPP stating a guaranteed 320bhp (or whatever), so I would imagine he doesn't have a case.

I've looked into getting a PPP for my '06 and have been put off by the performance figures quoted by Prodrive (also shown in this months Jap Performance):

Standard:
30-70=4.7
0-100=12.5
PPP
30-70=4.7
0-100=12.2

The in-gear times are extremely close, with the only noticable difference being in 6th. Seems a lot of cash more not much difference. If these figures are correct, you'd have to drive the PPP at 10/10ths to see any real difference on the road over std.

I've also heard from other PPP owners that the power delivery seems smoother and less agressive than std.

The burble returns though, so just a PPP back-box for me!

Gutmann pug

Perhaps Mike Wood will be along to discuss shortly?

PPP on the 2ltr engine made a noticeable difference as everyone on here raved about it. Are we saying that PPP on the 2.5 doesn't? I would be very suprised if that is the case.

What do Subaru quote as bhp with a PPP car then?

Gutmann pug

From the official Subaru site 316BHP and 332Ib ft

CaptainJohn

I`ve had the PPP kit fitted to my MY06 WRX and it has made a HUGE difference to the car the Torque is awesome with the 2.5L engine. It really is much quicker and smoother than standard and the noise is much better too .

The thing is though with the MY06 that there is just so much torque you don`t need to rev it as much and the power is available lower down the rev range so you have to adjust your driving style to get the best out of it , 3000 to 5000 revs is all you need for a massive kick in the back. If you are used to revving the **** off a 2.0 L motor you may be disappointed until you learn to adjust your technique.The characteristics are totally different.

Gutmann pug

STi not the puny WRX

corradoboy

I found this even when driving the standard car. Much easier to hang on to a gear where the 2.0l would have you up & down like a *****'s knickers. Just need to convince them to fit a strong 5sp 'box and it would be superb.

CenobiteSith

Got a 06 Sti had a few tweeks done by power station

339bhp 447Nm (about 330Ib ft) and yes it feels faster than standard

Gutmann pug

Thanks for your help but totally no relevance to the thread........

Leeroy

please expand...

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

If you haven't already, get the boost level checked. My son had a 03 STi PPP and it felt slow. We rigged a boost gauge and it was struggling to reach 0.85 bar! Turned out to be a blocked restrictor in the pipe going to the wastegate.
JohnD

svennard

I have a 06MY STi UK which I had fitted with PPP about 6 weeks ago - now got 4k on the clock from new.

Had it dyno'd at Powerstation a couple of weeks ago;

my STi PPP - 308.2bhp / 423.5nm
Prodrive's official figures = 316bhp / 450nm

a little down on Prodrive's advertised figures and the 'cert and sticker' that you get from Prodrive to go with your car..

However, as there is always differences between different dyno's, a shortfall of 8bhp and 26.5nm may have to be accepted as 'within tolerances'

I've spoken with Mike Wood at length about this and I'm satisfied that the same car on a different day, with different fuel, on a different dyno' may well hit or exceed the 316bhp / 450nm..

(by the way, I use BP Ultimate on its own - tried Ultimate with octane boosters - with no noticeable improvement - but I have found Ultimate to give better response than Optimax)
I'm returning about 29mpg and that was driving it in mixed mode.

As far as the performance - have a search on some of my other posts - its took a little getting used to driving the car, bearing in mind that it's the first impreza I've had, but overall I would say that the PPP does show improvement over the standard sti, particularly in the initial response, and ultimate grunt when you 'drive' it, but you might struggle to notice much in general day to day pottering.

For 1700 quid, it may be a little too subtle for some..

Svennard

killa

iTrader: (7)

I think you would have a problem with getting it removed as it may only be a minor problem if there is one, or getting your money back..they may offer a small return to you for the ppp but you may need to keep it,
Also is a new stage 2 ppp coming out on the 06 sti, which should be better than the stage 1..

bigknd

Gary,

I've had PPP fitted to my 06 STI for over two Months now and have covered over 7K with it fitted. I can confirm that it pulls much better than standard in all gears and have no complaints what so ever.
I have defi's fitted and can confirm that boost on full load has now gone up from 1.1bar standard to 1.32 so mine is deff doing something

On your other point I would get the car checked out by Subaru dealer as at least they can see what it's boosting at and of course get the ecu changed if faulty.

Kev

Gutmann pug

Thanks Kev and Svennard for those replies.

Gary

AllyJ

Well if it makes any odds Graham at TSL was talking about the new 2.5 ltr STIs and isnt very impressed with them at all, whether there is some particular problem with this car on its own who knows but he doesnt particular rate the newer engine over 2ltr version, specially the MY05 which is his favourite.

My MY05 had ppp (its now 333ed) but with ppp it was a big difference to STD and hugely better to drive, as has been said can't comment on the 06s as have never driven one.

p1doc

take it back to subaru and see if ppp parameters boost ignition fuelling is being reached and if possible drive another dealers ppp demo to see if big difference if still unhappy talk to prodrive
martin

Gutmann pug

Graham is bound to say he isnt impressed with the 2.5 until TSL have generated their own upgrade which will have to have more power than the current 333. I doubt he will get many customers considering a 333 upgrade and loosing their warranty rather than a 316bhp with full warranty.

Martin, thats what I advised my friend to do.


Gary

Leeroy

The standard MY06 2.5 is a better engine than any standard 2.0 - period, and is far easier to drive being less highly strung.

AllyJ

Well I only go on what people have said to me, not only TSL said it but also Days Suabru mechanic told me the same thing oddly, dont bother me tbh I dont own one, never drove one myself, dont shoot the messenger

svennard

Someone mentioned Stage 2 PPP...

To confirm, there is no plans for a stage 2 PPP.

Prodrive did test with a downpipe upgrade when developing the MY06 PPP, but decided not to include the downpipe upgrade in the release.

Many people have take this to mean that a stage 2 PPP will be released at a later date, with the dowpipe upgrade.

Mike Wood will confirm that this is not the case.

The PPP with the downpipe upgrade, whilst producing higher overall output, left question marks in relation to reliability of the engine - that is why the downpipe was not included - it is not being saved for a later stage 2 PPP on the MY06.

svennard

It's also worth mentioning that most upgrade packages for the MY06 STI will not go past the 340-350 BHP (and torque will be under 500nm) due to well known limitations with the 2.5L engine. (not gear boxes - we're talking pistons and associated)

When certain people say they pefer the 2.0L over the 2.5L I suspect it may be in relation to the build components used in the 2.5L and the apparent limited upgrade possibilities, dictated by the build components.

If you want to go further than 350bhp you are looking at major engine component replacement, which is unlikely to be cost effective and is bound to adversely effect re-sale value on newer cars like the MY06 WRX / STi

Prodrive provide the most conservative upgrade at 316bhp, but the best Warranty, while the likes of Powerstation and WRC come in around 340-350BHP, with a third party warranty (certainly powerstation)

You won't find much in excess of 350bhp for the approx 2k you can spend on a 'one day in the garage' upgrade

CenobiteSith

no probs.

Got the MY06 Sti and loved the feel of the car (had to trade up 350z needed a boot for mums wheelchair) but wasn't really thrilled with the performace. so i took it to PowerStation and got

Street Legal Package Stage 1
EcuTek Re-Map
3" Milltek Exhaust with Sports CAT
K&N Filter
~340bhp/340lbft @ £1350
inc. Comprehensive Warranty

Stage 3 - T25 Spec Kit
AST Sport-Line Suspension Kit
Rear Adjustable Roll Bar
Anti-Lift Kit
Front Adjustable Roll Bar
4-Wheel Alignment
£1400 + VAT

also got them to put on the JDM front spoiler, Car is much faster and really holds the corners with no body roll. It was quite a bit of cash to splash all in one go, but what the hell.

Not planning to do anything else at the mo, the car runs fine and i'm not trying to break any speed records.

oh yes also got a PSI3 data monitor from http://www.xtremescoobies.co.uk/

Overall i'm very happy with car

LitchfieldImports

Gary,

Mike's not at work at the moment as he has a broken arm (bet he's just watching the footie though ). Maybe the suppling dealer fitted something incorrectly as the Prodrive pack should feel better than standard, we've seen it here a few times

Iain

Gutmann pug

Thanks for the comment Iain.

Enjoy the football Mike, you lazy sod.

Gary

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Kev,
I know you've always been pleaed with your PPP

Surely a dealer can plug in and cheak Peak boost levels

Probably fell off his PC chair laughing while on Scoobynet LOL

Get well soon


Tony