Olly

Currently looking long and hard at buying a new motor. Very little is turning me on at the minute, except for the ugliest bread van on the road, the BMW M Coupe. After 3 Subarus in a row, I am now looking for something a little more grown up, and (dare I say it) classier. Build quality, rarity and decent depreciation are also redeeming features.

Have fancied an M3 Evo for years, but have now seen a few baseball hats driving them, which puts me off. Also to my eyes the M3 is now looking rather dated compared with a new M3. Would consider a 4 door though.

Has anyone ever owned/driven an M Coupe? Or can anyone suggest a reasonable alternative?

Squizz

I think they're cool. I love the shape!

Check out 'EVO' magazine. Haven't they got one as a long-term test car??

pwebb

depreciation now hitting these too - a pal has had one from new and now wants out - also, as you note, they are a car of choice for some (presumably well heeled) thugs :-( - available circa £19k now.
Definitely not a 'sensible' option - and not that refined either - though a lot of fun if you are brave enough to not need ABS/DSC etc.

I think things have moved along a bit now and this would feel dated if you have sampled more recent cars.

still a lot of 'presence' though.

JJamess

I've moved from a Impreaza to a Legacy B4 RSK. It is alot more grown up,larger,more comfortable and alot better build quality. It is a great car to drive, nobody knows what it is and your can still drive fast in the wet.You can't do this in a BMW belive me.
Mine has half leather, climate control, huge boot,sits four easy,twin turbo,porshe tuned suspenshion, bilsten struts=great handling, great sound system and much more.

astraboy

One of my mates had one a few years back. He also has a fair bit of talent behind the wheel so I was privilaged to see him thrashing the **** of it on a regular basis. Classy donuts and burnouts on the queens highway all the way. That car can do some amazing stuff with the right person behind the wheel.
astraboy.

Beemer_Deano

Personally I like the M coupe and odds of parking next to another one in Safeways are pretty slim. It's definately a niche car though as most people either want the M roadster, or an M3 if they're going for a hardtop so you might have trouble flogging it later on. Also, the new Z3 isn't far down the line, although new models don't normally affect older BMW prices in the same way as other marques (look at the crazy prices E30 3 series still go for).
You don't get the 6 speed box of the M3 though and while it's still a very fast car it feels a little bit sterile.

If you're looking for something a little different in a BMW (sir ) and that probably won't cost you as much in the long run, consider picking up a 3 series cabrio with factory hard-top. Although it does sort of defy the point of a convertible (and you'll need somewhere to store it in summer) they look fantastic and are different enough to make people double take. The chassis is also excellent, especially for a soft top, and if you pick an M3 the performance is close to a hard top.

Dean

eliot

got a mate who just bought a 1 yr old 330 Coupe and he is gutted. It handles like a barge and responds like microwave!!
I know the M3 is a different kettle of fish but maybe try a Skyline or a 911!!!

Beemer_Deano

Eliot,

erm?

Dean

wilf

Burnouts and donuts sums up the MCoupe pretty well.

Trouble is it does both of these when you dont want to and even in the dry.

I have toyed with buying one of these on 3 occasions now and each time have returned to scoob.

Sure it is very quick in a straight line compared to say a UK MY00. It is also a classic rear driver. However, compared to a scoob it lacks confidence inspiring grip and handling and comes across as a fairly crude set up. In my last road test the blighter was spinning its tyres out of nearly every slow speed corner in teh first three gears.

As mentioned above, Evo are currently running one as a test car and when I read the report a month back the writer was saying bow the car had caught him out so that he was having to treat it with a new respect.

Other factors to consider with it:-
Very poor head and leg room if over 6 foot
claustraohobic cabin
uncharismatic M3 engine - I'm sorry but no comparison to boxer 4
poor resale
not even got body coded door handles.

In summary an entertaining but flawed car. Certainly not grown up or as effective on B roads as the likes of a P1.

Olly

Hasten to add that I would never buy a new one even if I could afford it. Would far rather let someone wealthier than myself stand the 3 year/30000 mile/20 grand hit and pick up the pieces. Would spend no more than 20-21 grand. Depreciation should trickle nicely from here: good K plate M3's still fetch over 10 grand, and the M Coupe's rarity value should keep prices firm for cars over 3 year old and growing older. All IMHO.

Have considered an R33 Skyline for all the usual reasons. Don't fancy a 911: my Old Man has just sold his beloved 911 C2 Speedster. Wonderful motor, but a badly driven Scooby would eat it in the twisties. Bends to be charged into in an Impreza had to be tiptoed around in the 911, even in the dry.

pwebb: have only ever owned 3 cars with ABS (all Imprezas), and none with traction control, so shoudn't miss it too much. And anything will feel refined next to my 205 1.9 GTi.

M3 Evo 4 door in the right colour (not bloody Puffa Jacket Estoril Blue or Dakar Yellow) and a few grand in change still seems to makes sense compared to the Coupe.

Will consider a P1 when they are selling for £15k, no more. Shoudn't have to wait too long.

Wilf: interesting comments. I enjoy a challenge, but do not fancy owning something overpowered, and undriveable in the wet, a la TVR. Do you reckon the car falls into this category?


[Edited by Olly - 10/29/2001 4:11:44 PM]

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

M coupe looks fantastic - if I was going to change my Scooby for a BMW then that would be the one.

Simon K

Gents,

Its been a pleasure reading your comments. I own the following cars :-

98' M3 Evo convertible + hardtop
97' Twin Turbo Supra (mod to 350 bhp)
99 STi Version 6 Coupe R

All three are totally different cars.

M3 Evo
This is my pride and joy. I brought this new and yes, Ive taken the hit of depreciation but I have the full warranty and I know the history of it and will never sell it. Nothing beats the raw grunt on 321 bhp from a naturally aspirated engine. The double vanos is a little noisey and when buying second hand example you must ensure that your car has a full BMW service history due to BMW having problems with vanos (2K to fix). I love driving my M3, not due to speed but due to class. Everyone looks at it, the birds love a convertible Bimmer. The roof is one touch and the noise is pure motor sport. Its not as fast as the supra or at all near the STi but the pure low down torque is delightful. I brought the convertible model for the summer, but add the hardtop and its a coupe in the winter. The hardtop is condom tight and solid. Yes, it is Estril blue. I did want yellow / or black but the blue was the safer of the three when re-slae comes around. It also shows the body mouldings better and when polished ! Sweet ! The car looks sexy, it looks money and it must be considered as a fast tourer / conv, than a sports car. Women love a BMW, I get far more looks when Im in this than any other car.

Twin Turbo Supra
I love this car. I use this as my daily runner. I do 700 miles a week and this thing just eats them away. Its an auto which is about 1 second slower than the manual but with out the hassle. Ive seen the speedo reach 175 mph on this down the m23. Nothing turns you on more than the turbo whilste, build quality is good and reliablity is excellent. Doesnt have the sharpness of the STi or that explosive performance but when that second turbo comes online, you know it. The handle is better than the m3 but Im sure thats because it's a coupe not a convertible. The build quality is good but you dont hear that cluck when you shut the door, unlike the M3. But, it looks wide and menercing and I love the point and squirt feel of it. This car should be considered similar to a porsche 928, big speed for big miles in comfort and reliablitly. Women look at this car as ugly, but in an attractive way.


STI V6 Coupe R
Well, this thing is a rocket. Pure speed and acceleration. The ride is hard and knocks you about but the reason you've got it is for speed and therefore you accept its uncomfortalness. Its not a car to use every day, the gearing is too short for motorways and it will eat fuel. You manner of driving just changes in here and you turn into a right nutter. This car demands respect and every boy racer and erection knows what it is and leaves it alone. Get to race porsche with but it has no top end. It will get you to 110mph but runs out of steam due to the close ratio gearbox. The build quality is ok, the engine doesnt look as sexy as the M3 and the engine noise is love or hate. Women consider these cars ugly / boy racer.

If I had to pick one to keep, it would be either the M3 or Supra. The M3 shouts money. The build quality, the engine is what your paying for. However, the Supra is far quikcer over 90 mph but is a bit Essex boy in regards to looks. Im 30 years old and am getting too old for ladish cars, well so Im told ! ;-). So, I would pick the M3. I know that I will be able to do at least 120K on the car without problems. But, I know the Supra will do that too, but new turbos will be required. The STi is like a one night stand, play with it, do want you want, then get rid of it to the next person. Fun, but you wouldnt want it to be your only ride.

Going from a Turbo to the M3 will be a little dampering due to you being used to and enjoying, the feel of the turbo coming online. The M3 has power from right down at 1K revs and you will not suddinley feeling it burst into life like a turbo. But, the car itself does handle and goes very well. The brakes, well the brakes are ****ing excellent. They are the floating type design ones, similar to motorbikes and Ive never driven a car with such good brakes. Ive done 45K in my M3 and it still feels tight and sexy, I doubt after 45K miles in the STi this will be the same.

You must test drive one of each to deicded. I couldnt and brought all three ! Dont you just love IT Contractors ! :-)

SBK

SimonD

Just a quick post in defence of the MCoupe from someone who has owned a UK Turbo and a MCoupe - each for a couple of years.

I think the problem with going from a Scoob (particularly if it is your first performance car) to any powerful rear driver is that it is easy to become used to getting away with silly corner entry speeds and rather unsubtle use of the throttle. That is why the Scoob is such an amazing car. In standard form the handling is hardly inspiring but the levels are grip are incredible.
If you drive the MCoupe like it is possible to drive a Scoob you'll end up in a hedge (if you're lucky). It is NOT however a real handful. Try a TVR if you want twitchy rear drive handling. The MCoupe feels pretty much like 3 Series to drive at low speed, just a lot more fun when you put your foot down........progressively! The handling is much sharper than a UK Scoob.

Yes the cabin is pretty cramped, but I am 6ft 1in and find it easy to live with. The sunroof actually gives you a bit more headroom. The clutch has a long travel and sits quite high. It took me a while to get used to it but does not bother me anymore.
Don't let anybody tell you that the M3 engine is uncharismatic. It is without doubt the best engine I have come across - no waiting around for the Turbo to spin up and a fantastic sound at higher revs. I love the Impreza engine - sounds and goes great particularly with Mr Croney's assistance but the M3/MCoupe six is in another league - as it should be at the price.
Poor resale? Maybe, but compared to what, an Impreza?
Colour coded door handles. Yep, and no tea tray spoilers, fake grills dodgy body kits and attractive lighting combinations. You pays yer money……….

Having said all that, I miss my Impreza like no other car I have owned - I'll be back.

Type R

Sonu a guy who uses this board who owns a M-Coupe, i met him at the Ring in July, he also has a Scooby. He really rates the M-Coupe. He said it is difficult to drive quickly compared to the Scoob thou.

I love the retro bully boy look, lurrrrvleee

Simon K

SimonD

Is yours a 5 speed box ? What's the fuel stats like ?? Also, have u modified it at all ??

I find the engine rather thrashed now in sound compared with my quiet supra. Also, do u havee a noisey gearbox ?? M3 Coupes / Convs are known for having a rattley old gearbox, just wondered if the Mcoupe had this also.

SBK

wilf

SimonD

Thanks for your reply which I think was aimed mostly at my comments on the MCoupe.

My observations on the car were not intended as an all out criticism. As I said the MCoupe is an entertaining powerful rear driver. However it is not the grown up machine that the writer was looking for at the start of the thread.

As you mentioned the Scoob is far more foolproof than the MCoupe which requires a great deal more skill and judgment to drive quickly. In the hands of most drivers and on narrow B roads this makes the MCoupe a considerably more daunting prospect.

As a rear driver (and I have owned several myself) the car demands more respect and is therefore slower in the real world (wet greasy roads etc). When I last tested the Mcoupe I drove back to back with my scoob which seemed even more impressive in terms of ride grip and body control over the same roads than it usually does. Whereas at most corners the BMW's rear end and tyres would sing away and squirm the Scoob was firmly planted. (Maybe this was down to the outdated rear axle taken from the old compact that testers have criticised)

On the qualities of the M3 motor - we'll have to differ on that. I must confess to a dislike of BMs generally with their long travel clutches and floor mounted accelerators. I think it is also undeniable that the cabin is cramped. In particular I found myself catching my knees on the underside of the steering wheel and wedged into position.

SimonD dont get me wrong - of all BMWs cars this is the only one I would even consider buying. It is just that in my view the car is not as well rounded or as practical as a scoob.

Guess we'll just have to differ.

father_jack

I too fancy the M-coupe and am keeping an eye on the prices in Autotrader. They seem to be around the 20-24k mark now for very low mileage cars. Most of these cars are really low mileage, probably sunny day use.
It's basically a thinking mans TVR. i.e. inlikely to break and leave you with expensive bills.
Bet a service is dear tho? Can any owners comment - also when are major services due, cambelts etc?
Only trouble is its a beemer so everyone will think you're a t0sser and it's more likely to get keyed etc.. plus are they all bloody Estoril blue or YELLOW? Cars should be silver or black.
You can't beat RWD for fun tho - I recently drove a Camero round California, and while it was a bag of pus in some respects, it was refreshing to drive a powerful RWD car for a change.

SimonD

Wilf,

no offence intended. I understand your point of view.
There is no doubt that if you want to drive quickly cross country, particularly if you don't know the roads or surfaces are greasy, the Scoob will cover ground more quickly and safely.
My comments about the difficulty of moving from a Scoob to a rear driver were based on personal experience and not aimed at anyone in particular. My Impreza was the first performance car that I owned and I was very conscious of the mess I could get myself into with the BM if I was not careful. I think that my experience on sports bikes has helped a lot. I found that I have learned much more about my (lack of) driving ability and feel that it has proved a more rewarding experience.
The rear end does have a strange feel when changing direction quickly. I am certainly aware of a lot of weight transfer at the back when changing direction, almost as if the rear roll centre were quite high. I am no expert but as you say this could be a function of the older rear suspension set up.

If we are talking about the driving experience, you are right that there is nothing "grown up" about the MCoupe. Maybe Olly was talking more about the "image" of the car. If so, I would say don't base your decision to change car on a perceived image. I did this; I was concerned that the Impreza was becoming too popular and was beginning to attract a younger "kiddie racer" type driver. This is, of course, bllx. A good car is a good car - if you like it, stick with it. I just got lucky and changed to a car that I have enjoyed even more.


Simon K

they all have the 5 speed box, apparently the six speed won't fit. It is not noisy at all.
Fuel consumption varies from 16/17 if I'm having a really good time to high twenties on a motorway run (at respectable speeds). Pretty similar to the UK Scoob actually.

PS: I was really anti BMW before I bought one but have to admit to a grudging respect for them now (the cars not the drivers! ).

ARRON BIRD

L like my new M3

wilf

Father Jack

You mentioned the Camaro
Was it the 3.8 the Z28 or the SS?

I thought about buying a Z28 when they first came out in the UK a few years back. I really wanted to like the car but I have to say that it was probably my most disappointing test drive ever. Again it was very quick in a straight line but otherwise it was a poor and prehistoric driving experience. Attempting things in the z28 that I took for granted in my then rear drive 200sx the Z28 was all over the shop. Add to that poor detail styling and a hideous interior and it was a definite no.

I also tried a Mustang Cobra which was much better.

Mcoupe though is in a different league to either of these cars.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Olly

I fancied one myself, and at £24700 for a brand new import, it's a bargain of the centuary! It also doesn't matter which you get for the price either(roadster or coupe).

I couldn't believe it either - check out WWW.carpricecheck.com for details.

I couldn't have one in the end, due to the little'un, but if the coupe was a +2 it would be different....
Oh and the fact that a new model is on the horizon.

I've been around the 'ring' in Sonu's car and it was great fun, especially in the wet!

F

Olly

Father Jack: I like the 'thinking mans TVR' bit: my thoughts exactly.

I am under no illusion that a Subaru would be a far better and safer all rounder. When I bought my first Impreza in 1997, it replaced a Mk 2 Golf GTi. At the time the difference was huge: the sheer fuss free ability and grip amazed me, and did for some time.

But after progression to a MY2000 and finally and MY2001, I was bored. I found the cars a little antiseptic, a bit short on thrills. A bit TOO capable. Maybe an STi6 or P1 would put this straight, but would never spend the money on a P1, and couldn't be arsed buggering around with octane boosters in a jap STi.

My drive to work involves around 4 miles of empty, greasy B road, or 4 miles of cow **** ridden back lanes, depending on which way I go. Low speed, sideways thrills is what its all about, in which case something between a TVR and a Scoob would do very nicely. So far, no car has done the job better than my 1.9 205GTi. I sold mine and replaced it with a MY2001, the worst car buying decision I have ever made. An MX5 is doing the job well at the moment (RWD again), but now fancy something more different, more classy and more German.

Arron: no car in the world would do me better than a new M3. One day m8

Simon: nice toybox m8. Wouldn't say no to any of the 3 in your garage.

wilf

Just in case you are interested there is an MCoupe buyers guide in this Month's BMW magazine. Details of serviceing costs etc are set out.

father_jack

Wilf - it was the limp 3.8 v-6 about 100bhp short of the V-8s.
I tried my best to get a V-8 but it couldn't be done in sf plus I wanted a convertible. It was a disgrace inside, dodgy finish but handled not too bad (on merkin roads anyway).
When I got to Vegas you could hire Vipers, 911s, 355s helicopters anything.... anyway....

Floyd - gaaaaah £24,700 new!! My life has just changed if its not too good to be true.

Olly - know what u mean - had test drive of MY01 ppp - it was its own worst enemy - excellent at covering unknown roads with no drama, but thats the problem - I'd have to drive everywhere at 140 to get a buzz. I did the same test route in my Accord R straight after at the same speed but it was like - whooah there big fella, all over the road, fighting the steering, but fun.....
I've given up on the bikes so RWD has to be the way to go....

philwaring

I think the M Coupe is a cracking car, if the missus had her way this would be sat on the driveway now (but she didn't, I pulled rank and now she is a converted Scoob fanatic!).

I know its a bit clinical, but have you considered an Audi S4?
It's a great Q-car, has good spec, 6-speed, c/c, twin turbo, 265bhp etc.and has pretty good residuals. I've driven a few and although they don't offer the 'wow' factor that a scoob does they are still pretty rapid, handle reasonably well and are on most accounts more grown up.

Any views?

father_jack

Olly - did carprice check, best I got was £31k ??

S4 is interesting and a bit more undercover which I like. Are they a 2.7 v-6?

philwaring

Father Jack - yeah, I'm pretty sure they're a V6 (30v) ... performance is, by the book, as quick as a Scoob but upon experience it is less raw and more laid back. Its got bags of torque (about 295 lb/ft) and will pull 90mph @ only 3000 rpm in 6th gear which is nice on the motorway. Although it doesn't feel as quick it is actually v. deceptive, they're nice motors in both the 4dr and Avant.

AFR

Olly

I've had a black M Coupe for three months and find it a hoot. I used to own a Sti Type R which may be faster, and no contest in the wet, but prefer the enjoyment/danger(!) factor of the M. I haven't had any problems with the handling which is much more fail-safe than the Griffith 500 I used to have. At the end of the day, whatever floats your boat, but I reckon it's OK. I wouldn't disagree with the M's ability to bite if provoked but then you could say that about any front-engined, RWD with 300+bhp and no traction control.

Bought mine secondhand for low £20's BTW (17k mls) and don't think the depreciation will be too much from now unless I stick huge miles on it.

Good luck whatever you do.

Olly

£31,000? Bit different to £24700. Where's the difference? Let me guess: VAT, delivery, commission, registration, tax, extras, "sundries"(hate that word).

S4? Nice motor. But not quite ME. A bit TOO grown up? Always liked S3's though. Forget the TT, common as Fiestas around our parts. I do like Audi's, but reckon you need a quality suit and a neat haircut to own one. Counts me out.

Back to the M3 (4 door-do not really fancy a Flash Harry 2 door). Same engine as the M Coupe, nearly as fast (tad heavier) but more practical. Plenty around though, compared to the rarity of the Coupe. Several grand cheaper, probably similar running costs. What would you do?

By the way, has anyone seen Clarksons Head to Head video? The M Coupe EATS the Impreza 22B and Evo6 on the runway dash. Fancy some of that..

Olly

AFR:Nice car in a nice colour. Just what I wanted to hear.

How did you buy yours, BMW approved or otherwise?