MazingerZ

Hello there... I have been reading this forum for years but now I was about to join the Scooby owners club when....suddenly...

I was thinking in buying an impreza STi MY97 and decided to go JDM with a reputable dealer who is selling the car with "50000 km" (which is in good condition all around, I was satisfied except for a few things) for £6.5k; all the major services (brake pads, oils, fluids, cam belt, etc) has been done when it got into the country; I drove the car and feels and looks quite good.

- I asked the sales man if the car would have the jap auction sheet to back up the mileage, he said NO

- I asked is he had a BIMTA certificate to prove the mileage, he said NO, any jap (even short or incomplete) service history?, he said NO.

-I asked for the V5 and he didn't have it, was still waiting for the DVLA

He has however put the car in a immaculate condition, the paintwork is very good indeed, offer a 6 months warranty in writing (no extra charge) but there were a few things that quite didn't match, this things are as follows:

1- Unaligned clocks displaying 50000 KM (31000 miles)
2- Moderate wear in the steering wheel, especially between 90 and 180 degrees.
3- Slight wear (enough to see the shiny metal) on the left top corner of the clutch pedal.
4- Moderate-Advance wear on the gear **** (can hardly see the gear numbers)

I was tempted to ask for a cylinder compression/ pressure test, but thought I'd leave it for later (before paying for the car obviously) (BTW what are the nominal pressure figures for a healthy impreza STi engine?)

Since he didn't have any documentation (not even jap manuals) and the only thing he came up with to prove the milage was the MOT, in addition to that the car has been converted to read miles, so I thought that the 50000 KM would actually be 50K miles, which I was still ok with.... but then I took a decision and took the plunge and apply for a FULL BIMTA CHECK which was satisfactory in every aspect except the odometer reading, which came back with 170000KM (106000 miles)


Now, since I had put a small deposit to secure the car, I would like to know your views, opinions and will be very grateful if all of those were CONSTRUCTIVE and not ironical; I have done the best I could.

So Long

Koji Kabuto

[Davey]

Do the Import sheets actually have any Relevance to the value.. Our WRX came complete with the Export docs from Japan, the UK import and tax declaration docs and receipts from the auction which backup the mileage.

Best place to look to confirm the mileage are the pedals.. and the steering wheel as you say.

Personally I'd tell the dealer to give you back your morney or you will report him to the police for fraud and write to the VOSA and DVLA..

DanUK

Had the same thing on an EVO 5 I put £500 on. MIleage said 42000 on the clocks, BIMTA said 68000! Again, slight wear on the gearstick and a shiny steering wheel made me think!

Ask for a full refund which he should be happy to give you (To shut you up from what you know!) and walk away!

Up to you if you take it further but only when you have the readies back!

It is a minefield out there but you did the right thing!

I eventually got the car I wanted so be patient hey!

[Davey]

Infact I'd ask for MORE money back for your wasted time.. Hes screwed if you grass him up so its worth a try..

scoobynutta555

He's not one of these places that advertise as 'fresh import' is he, I truely hate that term.

Try these if you want a good import, not the cheapest but you pay for what you get IMHO.

http://www.svaimports.com/

MazingerZ

Thanks for your inputs guys,

I really do not want to go above £7K but want a decent post MY97 STi + I have a 94' wrx wagon to trade-in

Cheers

Koji Kabuto

chrisola

for £6.5k you could get a UK model or one thats been in the UK for a while!!

Sorry man but theres ALOT of scoobs around and theres no need AT ALL to go with anything that looks\seems\is less than 100% legit.

No reason at all matey.

Its your money, but seriously, look at all the import centers\these forums\autotrader theres hundreds and hundreds to choose from, dont bother yourself with anything less than perfect

MazingerZ

Any sugestions?

chrisola

where are you from?

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/
http://www.neweraimports.com/
www.autotrader.co.uk
http://www.futurautos.co.uk/
http://www.bonsaicars.com/home.htm

All of those will get any car you ask for.. autotrader is always a good start

GC8

The Japanese auction sheet is extremely important Davey, as you can see. Because the BIMTA mileage check only confirms whats written on the auction sheet, you can see where the fraud took place too... (by that I mean after it was exported; it may well have come through a docks auction the vendors here may have been innocent...)


Simon

MazingerZ

That is right CG8, the vendor has a very good reputacion here and especially in SIDC, but as a qualified mechanic with loads of experience with Imprezas, wouldn't he had not noticed the worn bits and pieces that I saw? or maybe he did and felt the car was in pretty good shape? Acording to him, he bought the car in the South East, and the person that he bought it from registered it and MOT'd it...

Any other ideas on how to tackle the situation? any law eagles around?

Koji Kabuto

[Davey]

So in essence its still pretty worthless as they could have clocked it in Japland . But I suppose you say atleast you know which side of the pond it happened.

I can understand why the dealer wouldnt want to show the auction papers though, you'ed see how much he is slapping your **** for!

GC8

But they arent Davey; it would be a mistake to assume that there are any parallels between the car industry here and in Japan, mileage fraud is (virtually) non-existant. The auction appraisal sheet is completed before the sale; its a condition report used as a guide by buyers who dont have the opportunity to inspect the vehicle itself (it wont include an details of the sale).

Simon

MazingerZ

Many thanks for your inputs and support guys!!

Does anybody have any suggestion on how to tackle the cancellation procedure?


cheers

Koji Kabuto

Gary C

Criminals,

Get the deposit back !, take the report but don't blame them, act as if they did not know and just ask for your deposit back. If they get difficult (DO NOT ACCEPT 1/2 back or anything like it) just drop into the conversation trading standards.

I had a look at an EVO 5, beautiful car in everyway EXCEPT the VIN plate was missing and a piece of ally with a number stamped on it rivited right over the chassis number !

And this was from BOC in Bolton ! a large car supermarket !

I went to look at a Renault 19 (I know, I was young) advertised at 32k miles, the steering wheel was shiny, all the pedals were worn to the metal and the drivers seat was worn, can't remember the Garage, but it was a main dealer of another make north of Manchester.

YOU CANNOT TRUST DEALERS.

Its up to you to check, thank god you did.

MazingerZ

Right,

I will do that today, thanks again for everybodys input!

Will post the outcome

later

Koji

esp ltd

iTrader: (1)

Any decent dealer will instantly refund you so you'll have no worries there. One thing i would point out though is that it's a 9 year old car so i personally wouldn't be that worried if it looked good and drove well.......i've imported Skylines for customers with 100k and were mint, we've also had in a genuine 30,000 km car that had spent it all on a track and that was in really poor order so judge each and every car on it's merit.
Why oh why does every man and his dog think every car comes from an auction ???????? I have a supplier who buys in direct from the main dealers so will therefore not have an auction sheet as it wasn't sold at one!!!!!
All decent dealers, like myself, do occassionally get it wrong......speak to the dealer and re-negotiate or insist on an absolute refund.........as for the member who would "ask for more than his deposit back" that's called blackmail and would result in a friendly word from a couple of 'collegues'.
Be realistic and you'll come up trumps every time, every decent, polite person who buys from me goes away with a full tank of Optimax, UK handbooks etc......the rude / arrogant ones get f*ck all !!!!!!!!
Dave.

[Davey]

I assume your refering to me?

Lets say; If I had put my trust in your merchandise and you had wasted my time and therefore money I would expect to be refunded for the product and my wasted time. Simple as that really..

And generally decent dealers wont get the **** on because they have got a few hundred grand worth of assets sat out front of shop to worry about.

scoobynutta555

Someone not happy with your 'friendly words' (esp LTD)would make sure your displayed cars would be on fire/ soaked in brake fluid or your premises would be raised. A dealers near where I work (st Albans road Garston/Watford) seems to have suffered this fate. Went years ago with an ex to look at mx5s (for her ) and the place was as dodgy as hell, all the cars had led a hard life and the guy wanted top money. We walked away. Someone else must have got their fingers burnt as the next week all the cars were covered in brake fluid. The same happened when the dealer replaced/repaired his stock. After that the place closed down and was derelect for a good few years.

There's nothing worse than a dealer doing you out of a deposit when the car is not as advertised. Happened to me with Graham Walkers in chester AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE THESE CON ARTISTS.

MazingerZ

But How much room would I have to re-negotiate? when the mileage is twice as much as what is advertised? (original price £6500)

Koji

Gary C

Don't touch it

It has been fraudulently advertised, who knows what else is being covered up (polished turd ?)

Get deposit back and look for another. But be friendly when you talk to them, dont suggest that they were trying to do you (you never know, they might not have), just say, sorry I was looking for a genuine low milage car and can I have my deposit back please.

MazingerZ

Got on the phone and spoke to the dealer, explained the situation and he probably got the shock of his life! the guy was not aware of anything like this and apologiced and offered a full refund of my deposit and was happy to buy the BIMTA certificate off me.....

Excellent and genuine Dealer!

Koji Kabuto

fitzscoob

fair result, just goes to show you need to be extra careful when buying second hand cars.

Gary C

Good for them, and offering to pay for the BIMTA is good of them as well.

Result.

[Davey]

Exactly what he should have done

Lets just hope he now revises the vehicles description on the forecourt

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Koji ,

Excellent result/news, IMHO

Anyway good job you had you wits about you. Most people buy scoobs with their ***** and not their Brains. Me being one of them

Tony

MazingerZ

Many thanks guys for all your support and info, it really help


I have now located another vehicle in autotrader, it is from JCimports in Bedale, the car has genuine 71000KM on the clocks, back up by good pedals and steering wheel, in addition to the physical state of the car (excelent conditions), the guy showed me the full japanese service history and Auction sheet that came at grade 4... he would SVA it, service it, change the CAM belts and do the Waxoil protection thing, for £6500.

I have read some good inputs regarding the seller in the Pajero clubs.

http://www.jcimports.co.uk/SportsDetail.cfm?recordID=77

any views? comments? constructive narrative?

Koji Kabuto

GC8

"Constructive narrative"? Koji; I fear that you have logged into ScoobyNet by mistake! The only advice Id give you here was to re-invest your £17 with BIMTA: if the odometer readings tally then Id buy it, if you like it.


Simon

esp ltd

iTrader: (1)

Davey......agree with you entirely about wasting time, fuel etc that's i will always promise to refund anyones fuel money if i had wrongly mis-described a car, i've never had to yet!! As we only carry around a dozen or so cars which i personally drive and check myself before we buy them. However, if someone did actually threaten to damage my babies i would seriously damage them so badly they wouldn't dream of trying it again
I myself travel all over the UK buying and get really annoyed when i drive 4 hours to see an "immaculate" car which is nothing more than an effing pig!! It seems many sellers think "well they are driving all this way so they are bound to buy it".......i'd much rather drive home dissapointed with my money in my pocket!!
Dave.

MazingerZ

Well, the new BIMTA certificate arrived today and it is spot on.... the car is geniune..... at last!

Thanks to everybodys guidance and efford to post here.

Cheers


Koji