spark666

Does anyone know what the specs are for a STI with TSL's 333 fitted? Does it make the car quicker 0-60 and 0-100 than ppp?

I know most people will say go for 333 over ppp but i was wondering what other plus's there was apart from the smoother drive

p1doc

look at last year's evo june mag or could even be 2004 test comparison of ppp/tsl 333/graham goode/rcm tsl 333 came out top for pp alikes gave figures and subjective views,you need to go and drive one and compare to ppp i did and now run tsl 333 decat with chargecooler spot on,there are quite afew tsl 333 owners on here do a search for tsl 333 and i am sure you will find the figures but you really need to drive one to appreciate it
martin

spark666

I have currently driven a standard STi and a PPP STi and the difference is so noticeable.

I'll have to see where i can pick up an old copy of that mag from unless someone can scan in the article.

Gutmann pug

I had a 333 car and it made 336bhp and pulled away from ppp cars in every gear. Not sure about times though.

crazyman1979

I recently bought a TSL333, never had it dynoed though.
The difference between the PPP car was hard for me to compare since it was a while ago that i drove the PPP car, it seems to pull lower down and is less laggy (although i do still notice some lag occasionally), although my friend who has been a passenger in both says the 333 car gives much more of a 'thrill' than the ppp.

I have never had a run in with any PPP or STI so what the real world difference is i couldnt tell you...

crazyman1979

From TSL website.

0 – 60 mph - 4.6 s
0 – 100 mph - 12.6 s
30 – 50 mph 3rd/4th - 2.2 / 3.9 s
60 – 80 mph 3rd/4th/5th/6th - 2.7 / 2.9 / 4.2 / 6.8 s

p1doc

see i told you there is a few of us bouncing around scoobynet! i am sure tsl must have a copy of article-give them a ring and ask for a copy
martin

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

I had my STi PPP re-mapped by TSL so it's pretty well on a par with the 333 package (Prodrive exhaust retained) It is quicker!
JohnD

MattW

What about the negatives? Resale (Gutmann didn't you struggle to sell??), warranty etc. The 333 package is a fantastic bit of kit but make sure you weigh up all sides.

Gutmann pug

Mine sold on here for good money in approx 2 weeks.........Gingerboy took about 3 months to sell his although they all struggle to sell 333 / ppp or standard.

The only issue comes if you want to part ex the car at a main dealers subaru or not they wont be interested as 333 isnt a recognised tuning package.

Gary

crazyman1979

Gingerboys car, which i bought, had a few glitches which is why it didnt sell quickly, however he did sort them all out and the car is fantastic!

Stephen Pope

Even regarding warranties, S&S in Ayr re-set my ECU when the exhaust/ CEL came on and sorted my rear suspension struts and mounts yesterday even although the car has TSL333, strut braces, TSL fast road set up and Prodrive springs. I think it depends alot on the dealer and the relationship you have with them. I always use S&S for servicing (and repairs on my classic hsitorically) and found them to be 100% bang on.

I was told that the TSL 333 will always make good power on the rollers compared with the PPP which can often be under.......

Cannot fault mine - it regularly scares the **** out of me!!!!!!!!!

GazTheHat

That answers my previous question then. I think i'll swap to them. They good with courtesy cars?

Stephen Pope

You again!!!

I have never asked for one, however I bet there would be more chance of getting one there compared with Eaglesham!!

I am telling you, join SIDC, then get down to S&S!!! Besides, they have some nice motors in the showroom!!

Finally, remember the A77/ M77 now makes S&S far more accessible. There is also the train (they dropped me off at Prestwick train station last time.)

Or you could beg pals/ bird/ wife/ brother/ sister/ mum/ dad etc!!!!

Leeroy

These are very cloce to the standard figures - are TSL being conservative?

spark666

Thanks

Thats close to P1 territory and speed. Would it be closer to that than a ppp scooby?

Stephen Pope

Who knows but the TSL is a nice package anyway and is far more driveable!

Daniel-S

do to the daft engine rules it doesn't reconise 333

http://www.scoobycity.co.uk/phpBB2/v...906&highlight=

GazTheHat

I thought standard was supposed to be around 5.2-5.5? So if it takes off that much when the times are that low, then that's an achievement, but judging by comments, it's more than about numbers.

ZEN Performance

The biggest thing is that the 333 package is custom tweaked to your car rather than a generic map for every car.

anthscooby01

Agreed! A map done specific to your engine has gotta be better than generic 'one for all' PPP one. Seems that there are some vastly varying BHP figures out there for STI PPP's.Worth looking at WRC350 package as well

jay knowles

My car standard apart from center decat and 3" pipe and group n backbox.04 sti basically stayed with ppp cars,maybe its a good one.Had triple 3 done with a few other mods far better than it used to be and never missed a beat in 8 months and its better on fuel.JAY

MikeWood

anthscooby01 / Zen Performance

I agree that custom mapping will be better, but will each individual cutomer pay for their car to be mapped in all the conditions he's likely to see? It's simply not possible to cover all the bases in the limited time a customer is prepared to pay for and with the best will in the world, whilst it may give a perfect result on the day, it may not be able to cope with changing conditions. What happens when he has to use a different fuel or the air temperature changes or the humidity changes and it overboosts or he sits in a traffic jam and then wants to use all the performance (drag strip styleee...) or he takes it on holiday to the Alps and the air pressure is much lower, or it's now -10C, or he's driving down the motorway and sucks something into the intercooler or radiator that blocks the airflow? We've covered all these bases and it all takes time to do. We've also got National Type Approval which is a first for any such conversion.

As I've said many times, it's not possible to 'custom map' a car in a day and get the perfect result for all operating conditions. You may well get the best out of that day but performance on other days will be down to how well the mapper has guessed (albeit a very well educated guess based on lots of experience but not proven on that car) the rest of it.

With the fixed mechanical spec of our cars, 'custom' mapping is not necessary as it's designed to cope with all conceivable conditions and operate safely. Where it is necessary is when you've got a mechanical spec that differs from that which the ECU is calibrated for such as a different exhaust or intake system.

Ref the variation in 'dyno numbers' of PPP cars, we've just tested the same car on various dynos whilst logging what it was doing and made sure that it operated as we've designed it to each time. The variation in the numbers was >25bhp and >50lbft and the best numbers were generated on the dyno that it achieved least boost and mass airflow on. I think this proves fairly conclusively that it's a difference in numbers generated NOT the actual bhp that's being achieved.

Regards

Mike

Stephen Pope

Not refuting what has been said above, but the TSL 333 package seems to be a good one!!

jd5217

there are alternatives to the 333 spec.

www.wrc-tech.co.uk

gingerboy

May I add that I still miss the old girl, oh the rumble and performance.

Back on track, when I was looking for a scoob I tried STi, STi + PPP and STi with TSL333. For me the TSL333 was a far better all round package, with as crazyman says lots of low down pull and far less of a "ON / OFF" power delivery which made town driving a lot easier.

Generally compared with a PPP car the TSL just felt a lot more usable and quicker, you don't seem to have to work as hard from a driver point of view with fewer downshifts etc.

Mike has some valid points but ultimately it is all down to personal choice, TSL have an excellent reputation and some very knowledgeable technicians who obviously know what they are doing. Best advice I can give is go and test drive one.

I will find the link to the EVO write up and post it shortly.

Paul

p.s. Crazyman, hope all is well and you are still enjoying the car - certainly sounds like it .

gingerboy

http://www.tsl-motorsport.co.uk/news...0002&detail=45

The above link will take you to TSLs' website and includes part of the EVO write up. Hope this helps.

Paul

p1doc

i found my ppp ran rough overfuelling on idle was poor in town traffic compared to ppp and felt very jerky on acceleration all vastly improved on 333 spec,interestingly 3diferent dealers thought it was better than ppp for performance/driveability/smoothness

martin

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

Mike,

Are you going to share the results you found across the different dyno's?

Cheers

Anders