stilover

As some of you may know, I'm wanting to sell my 05 STI PPP. Last week I went to a local dealer that had a Brand new Clio 182 up for sale. I asked about part ex'ing my scoob in on it. They only offered me £14k, so naturaly I refused. Now, speeking to my local Subaru dealer, I was trying to get him to buy my car off me, knowing that he has the same cars (age, milage, PPP, etc) sat on his forecourt for £22,995.
He registered his interest in buying it, but wouldn't commit himself to a price, although he did say that the book price of £16k was laughably wrong, and admitted they are worth way more than that. Considering what he was selling his second hand car for, I asked for £18,500 to £19,000. Now, he didn't say NO, but never said yes either. He said it was something he would only be able to confirm at the end of next week (Friday just gone).
Antisipating selling my car to the Subaru dealer, I then agreed to buy the Clio of the other dealer for £12k. I didn't pay a deposit, nor did I sign anything. Friday morning comes round, so I phone the Subaru dealer, and this is when it all starts going wrong. "Only yesterday" he says, "I bought the exact same car as yours (bullsh@t) but for £X amount, so I can only give you £17.5k for your".
OK I said, it's less tha I want, and I know I shouldn't but if you can write me out a cheque for it, I'll take it.
This is when he starts getting funny. He can't buy it off me, cos it's more than book price, and he'd get wrong off the manager (more Bullsh@t) so the best I can do is try to sell your car for you, and if I sell it for more then I could give you more for yours (even more Bullsh@t). This then made me think, he makes his money from selling cars, so he's bound to phone me up saying theres someone here wanting to buy your car, but he only wants to offer £x, so I would only be able to offer you £17k, or less. (while selling it really for £22k).
This made me think it was a waste of time, so I phoned up the other dealer and cancelled the Clio. This was at 11:15am Friday. I got a phone call from said dealer at 16:58pm giving me the plate number for the Clio, saying it's took all day to register it. Obviously I pointed out that I'd cancelled it this morning (Friday). Got a stroppy phone call on Saturday morning asking why I'd cancelled it. I explained that I thought I'd sold my car, which would have given me the funds to buy your. The deal fell through, so the Clio deal has fallen through, as I don't have the funds to buy it.
Was talking to them this morning, and I'm being told that they are still going to invoice me for the car, as they'd registerd it in my name.

As I didn't sign anything, never paid a deposit, and cancelled it before it was actually registered to me, can they take me to court for the money ??

I'm sure they can't cos no legal contract was signed. It was their fault that someone never got the correct message to say I'd cancelled it.
I've tried to calm the waters by offering to drive my car to them for them to sell on my behalf. Anything over £19k they keep. This would then give me the funds to buy their car. This was turned down flat, even though they could make money on it, and they are not buying my car off me. Again all he was saying is that they want there money for the Clio, and I will be invoice in due course.
I'm not going to pay it obviously, but what do you all think. Do they have a leg to stand on?? Could they take me to court ??

As far as I'm concerned, if I didn't sign anything, I'm not legally obliged to go through with the deal.

Sorry for such a long thred.

MY93WRX

****, what a **** up, im not sure how you stand on the verbal contract side of things but be aware they may try and put a CCJ against your name. Give trading standards a ring in the first instance, they are very helpful with consumer affairs.

AudiLover

They can suck on your long one cause you didnt sign anything and cancelled before it was registered.

Basically the dealer shouldnt have registered the car neither till you signed although they could argue you had a verbal agreement. Just deny everything.

acko

they cant do a thing m8. Anyway you have a 14 day cooling off period but you didnt sign anything so tell them to take you to court or even better tell them to **** off

paulg1979

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree. They can't do **** all unless you have signed anything. There is no proof on a verbal agreement!!! They're just trying it on. I've had a Clio 182 before the scooby. I wouldn't bother. Its an excellent car but you will get bored quickly. Its too much of a Go Kart.

scotthldr

Hi mate,

How did they manage to register it?? as you need to provide your insurance details when you do.

But with no signed contract they don't have have a leg to stand

Anyway why did you want to buy a f**king French car for in the first place

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

You dont need to provide insurance to resister a car, the last three cars i have bought, dealer didnt ask to see insurance

Gary C

Don't think a verbal agreement can be used anyway, no proof of contract = no contract.

Ring them and tell them its all in the hands of you solicitor, they will probably back off.

If they don't get a solicitor to write a letter as a statement of intent (is that the correct term ? will cost, but not too much).

They know they hav'nt got a leg to stand on but are trying it on to cover their losses (they probably feel a bit pissed off, but that's their problem)

scotthldr

Yeah you're right am thinking of road tax

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

TheVoices

iTrader: (5)

Unless the dealer was registering the car in their name (ie pre registering the car with them as first owner) it is a legal requirement that they have either a certificate of insurance or cover note from yourself. They are just trying to put the frighteners on you, no way they can have registered the car to you without insurance and a signed order form. Not coming from Motorpoint or similar is it ? With regard to the value of you car, it's worth what someone is willing to pay, might have been a bettter idea to get it sold before agreeing to the Clio verbally. I can't imagine that a dealer will pay more than book value for the car as there are still lots of pre reg and new STi's out there in dealerships at silly prices.

steve05wrx

Hi
I think you might need to take legal advise.
In UK law verbal contracts are legally binding (although often difficult to prove) - except when buying land or credit.
If you verbally ordered the car face to face with the dealer - this is a legally binding contract.
If you ordered it over the telephone - then distance selling laws apply - which gives you better rights and the ability to change your mind.
From your description above - you dont say whether you ordered over the phone or face to face.
You also describe above that you have discussed allowing the dealer to sell your car for you to fund the purchase - this is weakening your case - as you are still agreeing to them that you ordered the car by discussing this option with them.
You really need to stop talking to this dealer until you seek professional advise from a solicitor that specialises in contract law or failing that talk to the Citizens Advise Bureau.
Cheers
Steve

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

with distance selling are you not entitled to 14 day cooling off period

Phil

The dealer SHOULD have had the buyers insurance when registering a NEW car

I doubt they have actually registered it

chrisola

how did they register it in your name? Did you give them your name\address etc etc?

Verbal agreement, not worth the paper its written on :P

pslewis

What I 'think' has happened is this ...

You ring and cancel order (by the way a verbal contract has the full weight of law behind it).

The salesperson tells his boss, who has heard it all before ..... he knows how to make you buy

He rings you and tells you it's been a struggle, really hard work and they have gone out their way to register the car in your name ........

You say tough luck ....

He calls you and says you will be invoiced ..... hoping all the time that you will actually buy it in the end ..

I doubt they have much on you - but a verbal contract is still a contract!

Pete

MY93WRX

From my experiance Trading standards are a better point of contact than CAB.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Ah the last three cars i have bought have alas not been NEW.

Phil

PSLewis hits the nail on the head

Sweepickit

Hi

I've worked for three years in main dealerships selling cars, and can see flaws in the dealership's arguments.

1. DVLA will have issued the dealership a certain number of Reg Nos. My understanding is that to register a particular vehicle on the affrol system an insurance policy certificate number is required, because the registering of the vehicle allows the issuing of Road Fund Duty.

2. With no signed contract there are too many opportunities for discrepancies to arise, for a court of law to hold a binding contract was in place. (I would have sold ten times the number of cars I have, if every time someone said "I'll be having that!" I counted it as a done deal). Also without a deposit, no sane dealer would register a motor vehicle... as there is no material commitment on your part.

3. Even with a signed order form and deposit paid, you have seven days to rescind the contract.

The dealer is trying it on with you, and I think the tactics suck!:

That's my two pennies worth: 2yrs Vauxhall main dealer, 230 cars/year sold, 1yr Mitsubishi, 160 cars sold. Over 3000 blaggers not sold!

Sweepickit

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on , how can it be proven? I think you have a good cause to file a counterclaim for harrasment and stress. Don't be fooled a verbal contract is not legally binding between a business and a member of the pubic.

Gutmann pug

Tell them to stretch their pants over their head and you will see them in court ...... bet you dont hear from them again.

Gary

[Davey]

If you havent signed anything then just deny that you agreed anything.. problem solved!

stilover

Cheers for all the advise.

I ordered the car via telephone conversation. I did give them my name and address. They have never asked for any insurance details from me.

If they try to contact me at work, I'll get the secretary to say all contact with me should be done in writing. I think I'll send them a fax tomorrow asking for there sales terms and conditions. Hopefully it will say something about a 14 day cooling off period. If it does then I'm ok. If they refuse to send it to me, then take me to court, then it won't look good on there part.

Also, I might just tell them that a family member is a Solicitor, and he said to tell you "to go take a run & jump".

Personally, like many of you have said, I think they're just trying it on hoping I'll just pay up.

Wish the whole sorry incident had never happened now. I've learned my lesson. Sell my car first, then buy another car . D'oh

Again. Thanks.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

how about i give you 17.5k for your sti, you can buy your clio and everyones happy?

Sti_Pete

as regards to them putting a ccj against your name, unless you have a signed credit form they can't do **** all m8. I would just leave it as they are just trying it on big time!

RRH

I would very much doubt that there is sufficient incentive for them to pursue a claim against you based on what you have said- they simply don't make enough out of the sale of new cars.

It sounds like they are trying to put pressure on you with their threats, and would suggest the old adage of 'empty vessels make the most noise' as I think they would probably struggle with this one.

Before you do anything else I'd speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau and / or a solicitor for some proper advice.

DonnieDarko

most main dealers have a 1000 mile/ 1 month swap guarentee anyway.

remind them that if you did that it would be EVEN MORE hassle for them

silent running

There is absolutely nothing they can do, unofficially or through the courts. You simply have no contract with them whatsoever. A verbal agreement means nothing.

I can 100% guarantee there is nothing they can do. Tell them to **** off. They would have to be the stupidest people in the world to try for a CCJ. The process would be this: they apply for the CCJ saying you owe them money for a car you ordered and then cancelled once it was too late. The court writes to you asking whether you accept this debt and are going to pay it, accept it but can't/won't pay, or don't accept it at all. You then write to the court to say the debt doesn't exist as you never had a written contract with them at all and merely mentioned that you were interested in the car. The court looks at this and asks them if they want to go ahead with their claim and whether they can bring supporting paperwork etc. They then realise that they are ***** and they have no signed contract whatsoever and no claim to any of your money.

I'd let them try it just for the laugh!

chrisola

ignore them.. dont ask them for Terms and Conditions etc just go on with your life and make a note not to deal with them again.