edmy716

this thread is probaly going to upset some people but i feel the need to post my feelings towards a few companies as i feel a lot of people are getting the wrong advice and getting ripped off!

i have a 53plate sti ppp
i wanted to tune as we all do and went around various companies to see what the best package was for safety and reliability and also wasnt going to cost an arm and a leg

i didnt want to go mad bhp just tune what i had and aim roughly for around 350. the majority of companies i spoke to said i needed a 3" full decat all the way, top mount inter cooler, alot mentioned aps induction kit aswell, a few not all said that 350 wasnt really achievable on standard turbo, i also mentioned headers and up pipe and the response was headers wont give hardly any bhp maybe around 4 or 5bhp.

anyway i decided on my tuner RICHARD BULMER has he has worked on my cars b4, he said 350 was achievable on standard ppp downpipe cat, centre decat, headers and uppipe and a panel filter.

had my car on rolling road today, it made 357bhp/361fltb
the rest they say is history.

i just want to warn people that these so called subaru specialist are ripping peolple off and its not right.

big up RICHARD BULMER

cheers anthony

Gutmann pug

I think you should be a little careful using the words Ripping people off.....

The headers as said wont give you a BHP gain but they would provide more torque.

I have used Richard Bulmer in the past and he is very good. I will agree with you on that.


Gary

RLE

iTrader: (2)

I too was intially looking for more power from the same car. Most companies stick with tried and tested methods-some of these aren't in to the R&D like a few other well known faces on here.

I had quotes from several respectable companies before approaching Andy F and Harvey for inspiration. They gave me advice on the parts that I would need to achieve the figures I sought for a lot less than I was initially going to spend.

I too was going for the headers-not for the extra bhp but to improve the driveability of the car and make the most of the mods that I was having fitted.

Glad you are happy and clearly the key is to fully research your planned "project". Thanks to the receptive and approachable experts that remain true enthusiasts on this forum we can all benefit from their knowledge and save a few pounds in the process.

edmy716

weres the 60bhp come from? roughly 25bhp from headers.

edmy716

360bhp no BULL-mer

Gutmann pug

hmmmmmmmm not convinced.

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Just like EDMY716, I bought my bugeye STI 265 bhp, fitted FMIC inc induction kit and I also fitted a set of tubular headers. Year before last took my car to G-Force in Aylesbury Who did a tune up to 360 bhp. When I looked at the before and after power curves I noticed that the before figure was 295. Now by my maths 295-265 = 30, so a increase of 30 bhp over standard before the tune up. So Gutmann pug where did the extra 30 bhp come from if you say headers do nothing? My understanding is 25 bhp from headers and 5 bhp from induction kit and FMIC. Agree or disagree?

Gutmann pug

Was the exhaust standard other than the headers?

The induction kit probably did nothing other than restrict power. Suprised it didn't come off with the re-map.

FMIC did alot then what a waste of money

How do you know what power the car had as standard? Could have been more than 262bhp (265 is ps by the way) could have been less.

Just cant see 25bhp from headers myself

Gary

Edited to say power engineering quote 15bhp from theirs (so maybe just maybe). Although I guess its hard to prove as the car would no doubt need a re-map after fitting.

edmy716

gutman answer this 60bhp from a remap??? i cant see it. cos i havent got anything else apart from a panel filter will put my dnyo graph shrtly

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Disagree with your view on induction kits, how can a more exposed air filter be a bad thing? The fitting of a FMIC will give some increase due to the better cooling of the charge temperature but not the 30 bhp increase. Yes Subaru's can fluctuate a bit on power readings and my car was not RR'd before I started tuning. As you say the 265 is Pferdestarke (PS) to convert this to BHP you multiply by 0.986 therefore BHP equals 261.29 BHP. As the Certificate of Conformity states that the engine power is 195 kw which equals 261.3 bhp. S that gives a increase of 33.7 bhp from the FMIC, Induction kit and HEADERS. A number of reputable tunners advertise tubular headers as giving a 25 bhp increase, I don't think they would tell pork pies as it would be illegal. That's my opinion and the figures I have to hand to quantify my opinion.

ps. Thanks for getting my brain working,

Just hope we don't get pete 'pslewis' involved then I will hit the bottle.

Gutmann pug

60bhp from a re-map is reasonable feasible ....

I have said this before and I will say it again .... I had a trust induction kit on my car when Richard Bulmer mapped it. He was dubious about it being on the car but tried to map with it there anyway. He then removed it and replaced it with a green cotton filter. The inlet temp went down by 14 degrees with the cotton filter in place.

The remap / uprated fuel pump (not bhp related) and cotton filter replacement gave me in the region of 50bhp. Its hard to say exactly as RR's vary as do run conditions but this was the result on my old car.

Gary

360ste

iTrader: (1)

I agree that 60 bhp is reasonable from a re-map. From what you say about your Trust induction kit I know that Trust products for computing are a bit dubious, wonder if it is the same company . Was yor green filter an induction kit or a panel filter?

Gutmann pug

Trust is a big jap tuning house ..... and the kit was fitted to the car from new..... (not computing gear )

Green cotton panel filter, very highly recommended....

Gary

edmy716

basically what im saying is you dont have to spend a fortune to get big power and a lot of tuners are saying you have to! and headers DO GIVE MORE THAN 5BHP!

suffolkdar

Just a couple of questions....

1 Do you lose the burble?
2 how much did it cost? (bearing in mind the wrc 350 for the stippp is @ £1500 and you keep the burble)

edmy716

still kept the burble
cost was 425 for headers, 761 for remap, 40 for filter and centre decat 100
1326 cheaper :-)

suffolkdar

sounds good, where abouts is he?

dougwrx

I think the figures talk for them self. If Guttman is right and the headers dont do much and the extra 60bhp is down to the remap why does a certain tuning company say you need APS topmount + induction and a remap in there 350 ppp package. I know edmy716 and he went to this company and they told him headers wouldnt work and that he needed all of the above, their test car has only come out at 337bhp. Bulmer didnt sell him the headers so did not gain anthing ,he just mapped it and got 357bhp so by your own thinking this company selling parts that are not needed. This is what edmy is getting at.

slammedmind

ill tell you what gains i get next week, im going to get before and after done on my98 type r, just repalcing headers nothing else

dougwrx

Yeah mate I will watching out for your post

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The design and quality of tubular headers will vary greatly. Also important in deciding what headers to go for is what turbo you are running and what is important to you in terms of drivability, torque and power.
With equal length tubular headers you will loose the off beat burble and at high revs your car will sound more like a Jap four cylinder motorbike. Most tubular headers are not equal length although the altered exhaust runs will have an effect on the burble sound.
Gains of 25 bhp are possible, in the right circumstances, on well designed tubular headers matched to the rest of your mods. I have a well documented case where a car gained 23bhp on the same rollers within a two week period from a change to properly designed headers and up-pipe and a remap from Bob Rawle.
The downside from that, as with most tubular headers was increased lag and the spool point moved 350rpm up the rev range. This reduces drivability.
Do not discount the O/E headers properly ported with a suitable up-pipe because they can come very close to the best tubular headers in terms of power delivery but with no loss of spool, better response and drivability. The number of people with this option is increasing and for very good reason.

Gutmann pug

Too many people spend money on here on the say so of others. Sometimes its money wasted........

gordywr1

id love these figures on my wr1 as its just too slow in standard form how do i contact richard bulmer and what headers did u use? i want to keep my prodrive sports cat am using a h and s system with panel filter want about the 350 mark would be nice

edmy716

exactly thats wat im trying to say

StiX

iTrader: (4)

With my classic today, remap produced 42bhp more - going from 230bhp to 272.

So 60bhp on a new age with more power to start with seems fair enough.

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

Some interesting comments about the choice of panel filter. I was running with a GREEN cotton panel filter but had the CEL light flashing a couple of times so replaced it with an HKS Hybrid panel filter (probably paranoia about oil-based filters affecting the MAF).

My WRX seems more sluggish with the HKS though, with more lag and less torque at lower revs but more grunt at top end. However I've also changed my Magnex oval backbox to a TSL Tiphoon so I'm unsure of the reason for the change in power.

Good to hear other people's views on filters though, perhaps I'll go back to a GREEN.

Daz1121

I've just got a magnex front cat back system and green panel filter. The sound and pick up from the car is now just nice with still a decent fuel return.

edmy716

at last my roller report
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...0042006095.jpg

MikeWood

Remember that rolling road dynos vary in the figures recorded for the same real power output. In our experience the homologated power figure measured on an engine dyno will be less than the figure measured on a chassis dyno. Chassis dynos can also vary by a remarkable amount, we've seen a variation of over 25bhp and 50lbft between dynos with the same car we quote at 320ps.

Mike

pslewis

I've got news for you ...... most of the tuning bollox is just that, bollox.

Thought up by morons, talked up by morons, fitted by conmen, lapped up by the stupid.

Pete