DazV

MY00 UK Turbo

Should I be looking at a dealer upgrade (ProDrive) or sticking some other stuff on.

Excuse my ignorance - the front of the scoob has beefed up brakes. Can they also be fitted to the rear, or will this upset brake bias ?

DaveW

DazV,

Depends on what you need. Have you had the standard brakes fade? Or are you looking to go on the track?

Upgrading the brakes all depends on how much you want to spend and whether you want something that does for you or just want the ultimate.

Braided hoses, brake support bracket and racing fluid will improve the feel.

Prodive upgraded disks and pads.

Upgrade the calipers/disks/pads for Bremsport/Tarox/Wilwood stuff.

Or spend £1500 and get some AP/Brembo/Prodrive 4/6 pot racing brakes.

The rear brakes don't do much braking so most people don't touch them but some put upgraded pads in.

But remember to consider your warranty.

There are lots of choices and lots of opinions on what is best. Do a search, go to a meet. Then decide and spend some money (if you decide you need to).

Daz, just read that you've got PPP and SS full system, so go for some big brakes, by the looks of things you'll need them

DaveW

[This message has been edited by DaveW (edited 04 October 2000).]

DazV

To answer your question why, its because mine feel a little flimsy on the road right now. I've read some posts from people who upgraded to the ProDrive / Alcon set via their dealer and they think they really do the biz.

When take into account my PPP and SS system, you say get some big brakes - you reckon the dealer fitted ProDrive one's will do ?

Don't drive on the track, just need 'em for good secure stopping on the road.

DV

AlastairB

DazV,

Prodrive do a couple of upgrades - they can supply uprated standard sized discs & pads for the normal (Subaru) 4 pot calipers fitted to MY99/00 cars - I can't remember the cost of that, I <I>think</I> it's about 500 pounds. A search will reveal....

Alternatively, they have the Prodrive 330mm upgrade (the one where Alcon make the calipers/disks) which is 1500 pounds, which uses bigger discs in combination with larger aluminium calipers.

As has been noted above, it needs 17" rims which you have, but be aware it won't fit under the Speedline SuperTourismo design that was popular on earlier Scoobs (the spoke pattern causes problems). Later wheels like the Speedline ST2, the RB5 wheel and the P1 wheel are all fine.

HTH
Alastair



[This message has been edited by AlastairB (edited 05 October 2000).]

Hoppy

Daz, from what you've said, you'll probably be quite happy with a ProDrive pad and disc upgrade. Fine for the road except under extraordinary circumstances.

But if you want to go further, and certainly if you're ever going on track, then the ProDrive/Alcon set up is undoubtedly top notch. The only problem is that you need 17in wheels to squeeze them in.

That's why I plumped for the AP kit, for 16in wheels. And I have to say that it's fanastically powerful and fade-free, even if I haven't done a track day with them yet.

But if I ever want to go a stage further, then I can upgrade to a bigger disc and 17in wheels (like ProDrive) or even further with the AP six-pot calipers.

ProDrive stuff is superb, but AP give you more options.

Hoppy

DazV

Hoppy,

Thanks for the info. I do have 17" speedline's actually.

Explain something - I thought the 'Prodrive' upgrade was the exact same thing as the 'ProDrive/Alcon' - whats the difference and whats the costs ?

DazV

AlistairB,

Thanks - although I'm not sure which Speedlines mine are - they're the dealer fitted ones on the front of the current ProDrive catalogue (17" Gold 6 spoke)

AlastairB

DazV,

I'm not sure which wheel is on the front of the ProDrive catalogue....

This is a SuperTourismo1 wheel. It <I>won't</I> accomodate the Prodrive 330mm kit.




This is a SuperTourismo2 wheel. The brakes will fit under this OK.



(Pictures from the spdusa.com website)

Dave is of course correct to point out there are loads of other options (inc HiSpec, Wilwood, Brembo, AP, etc.....).

I think however, the original calipers are cast iron, and as such are much worse at dissipating heat than an aluminium one as found in full upgrade kits. Whether this makes a difference or not is another matter....

Hope that helps
Alastair

DazV

Cheers for the pics - mine the latter one, ST2.

I've had Mike on from ProDrive (thanks Mike) quoting:
1. 330mm at £1,300+Vat or cheaper option
2. upgraded discs £280/pair and pads £140

£1,300 is a LOT of money for a new pair of brakes on the front - you reckon its worth it for public road use ?

DazV

Cheers for the pics - mine the latter one, ST2.

I've had Mike on from ProDrive (thanks Mike) quoting:
1. 330mm at £1,300+Vat or cheaper option
2. upgraded discs £280/pair and pads £140

£1,300 is a LOT of money for a new pair of brakes on the front - you reckon its worth it for public road use ?

DazV

Cheers for the pics - mine the latter one, ST2.

I've had Mike on from ProDrive (thanks Mike) quoting:
1. 330mm at £1,300+Vat or cheaper option
2. upgraded discs £280/pair and pads £140

£1,300 is a LOT of money for a new pair of brakes on the front - you reckon its worth it for public road use ?

DazV

Alastair,

Thanks - that confirms it, they're the Super Tourismo 2's I have, which means I can go for the 330mm jobs.

Sounds a little too steep for me though at £1,300+VAT (thanks Mike@Prodrive for prices) - isn't this more for the track, opposed to public roads ?

Anyone tried the £500 upgrade (upgraded pads and discs) ?

sunilp

Dav, i have the ST2s on my UK MY99 and use AP6 pots.

Whilst you have concerns over whether the outlay is worth it, consider this -
Brakes, amongst things, are very safety critical, if you want to drive your car hard and fast then confidence and consistency in your brakes is everything. Unless you do track days, you may never realise the limitations of uprated brakes (you might not even realise them on track) but isnt it great to know the safety margin you have?

Its like all the power and torque you have in your scooby - you can never use 100% on the road (or you shouldnt) but you know its there if you want/need it.

Better to be able to stop quicker than you can go in my book,

The choice is yours, 50/50, ask the audience, phone a friend or take the money and run.

[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 05 October 2000).]

DazV

is there an echo in here ?

AlastairB

DazV,

Glad to be of help...

Are they worth it? I can't really answer that, as it's down to the individual. I've got the Prodrive 330mm kit, and I'd just echo sunilp's points.

In hard cash terms, it <I>is</I> hard to justify, but most people who've upgraded to kits like these - regardless of manufacturer - seem very happy with them, and quickly forget how much they cost

Don't forget, if you've got 4 pot Subaru brakes, you can usually sell these on for about 300 pounds to owners of older cars. It helps take some of the sting out of the upgrade cost.

Re the cheaper upgrade of disks and pads, I believe "gregh" did this - try a search in the brakes forum and see what it turns up.

Cheers
Alastair


[This message has been edited by AlastairB (edited 05 October 2000).]

Jake

Also consider this, I made the mistake of spending £400 pounds on uprated pads and tarox discs braided lines, racing fluid only to find that it made a big difference but not enough and now wished I saved another grand or so and went with the prodrive/aclon kit.

Jake (saving hard)

gregh

if it's purely for road use, try uprated pads as a cheap starting point, then if they don't provide the stopping power you need, look at uprated discs.

I would think that the full > £1k kits would be overkill for road only use.

Greg

chiark

Is it worth trying a couple of cheap mods first, like the PowerStation bump-steer removal and a master cylinder support bracket?

The bump-steer mod can eliminate squirming under braking, and the master cylinder may firm up pedal feel a bit.

Just so you know, I've done neither of these but it may be just what you want before shelling out big time?

Hope this interruption is of some use

(edit: Gregh and myself are northern cheapskates, Jake is affluent southerner )

[This message has been edited by chiark (edited 06 October 2000).]

DazV

Chiark,

From one Northern cheapskate git to another - thanks for the info!

I think I'll be a decadent northern ******* and splash for the big guns at 330mm

gregh

DazV,

>> I think I'll be a decadent northern ******* and splash for the big guns at 330mm

Well join the SIDC and get to a track day then!



Greg

DazV

GregH,

>>Well join the SIDC and get to a track day then!

Ok, I'll come and burn some 'southern nancies' - I'll even bring my flat cap and whippet

-will have to save a few pennies first, so it'll be a little while yet

DazV

first, I'm gonna buy me some ICE - can't believe I haven't pulled out that Subaru tape unit - yeuchh!

MD Head Unit
10 Disc Changer
CDT Speakers

oh, and sheepskin jacket, floppy brimmed hat and some bitches in the backseat will complete my pimp-mobile.

DV

Jake

Is that a challenge?

RON

Daz
If you want a stop-gap upgrade I've got a set of brand new Pagid pads for the Subaru 4pots if you want them, £90 +post (195 from ss) and ther yours!
Ron

chiark

DazV: You're going for my ICE setup . Let me know if you want a hand fitting it... (And post something in the ICE section - it's been quiet over there recently )