Colin McRae talent or luck?
08 October 2000, 08:08 PM
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Chaps,
I have just seen McRae's off in corsica via a friends video. He said I should watch it and after I saw what happened I realised why. The reason I am posting this is to pose the the following question :
B4 he left the road he was really going for it, it seems that when McRae needs to get the job done he plants the pedal and relies more on luck rather than judgement. Some times it works ( GB rally in a Scoob) and sometimes it doesn't ( I can't recall the year but I remember him piling Imprezas left right & centre for most of the season). I came to the above conclusion when I saw the in car footage of the GB rally when he was doing at least a ton 20 through fog. I remember thinking " he can't be in control of that car, pace notes can only help so much" Has anyone seen him really going for it (or even been in the car with him)? was he in control or was it all ragged? I'm not disputing the mans speed and commitment, it seems his attitude is go for it and 2 hell with the consequences. Maybe I'm reading this all wrong and that is what they all do. Are there any other rally boys out there who can offer an explanation? I really need an opinion or two.
I have just seen McRae's off in corsica via a friends video. He said I should watch it and after I saw what happened I realised why. The reason I am posting this is to pose the the following question :
B4 he left the road he was really going for it, it seems that when McRae needs to get the job done he plants the pedal and relies more on luck rather than judgement. Some times it works ( GB rally in a Scoob) and sometimes it doesn't ( I can't recall the year but I remember him piling Imprezas left right & centre for most of the season). I came to the above conclusion when I saw the in car footage of the GB rally when he was doing at least a ton 20 through fog. I remember thinking " he can't be in control of that car, pace notes can only help so much" Has anyone seen him really going for it (or even been in the car with him)? was he in control or was it all ragged? I'm not disputing the mans speed and commitment, it seems his attitude is go for it and 2 hell with the consequences. Maybe I'm reading this all wrong and that is what they all do. Are there any other rally boys out there who can offer an explanation? I really need an opinion or two.
08 October 2000, 08:15 PM
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To be honest mate Colin Is a top Driver! He is now in the Best car he has driven! When he goes for it he goes for it!!!
But its a question of just when any of the rallye drivers are going to have an off as an if! But i would say watch out for the Network Q! As Colin will be back with the force behind him
oh and of course the Focus! (scooby killing machine? we will wait and see ) 
CheeRS Rhys
But its a question of just when any of the rallye drivers are going to have an off as an if! But i would say watch out for the Network Q! As Colin will be back with the force behind him
oh and of course the Focus! (scooby killing machine? we will wait and see ) CheeRS Rhys
08 October 2000, 08:22 PM
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Very talented IMHO.
The trouble with rallying is that its not like most other motorsport. If you are circuit racing you can learn the circuit and job done.
Rallying wise if you drive within the limits you lose. Them guys push it to win and have my upmost respect esp. after seeing some of the in car stuff.
cheers
chrisp
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 08 October 2000).]
The trouble with rallying is that its not like most other motorsport. If you are circuit racing you can learn the circuit and job done
. Rallying wise if you drive within the limits you lose. Them guys push it to win and have my upmost respect esp. after seeing some of the in car stuff.
cheers
chrisp
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 08 October 2000).]
08 October 2000, 08:28 PM
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The thing to remember about these guys (not just McRae) is that they are driving at 100% of them and the cars limits. If they make one tiny mistake they usually get punished for it. Luck sometimes plays its part. For example one driver may clip a rock in the road and have no problems at all but the man following may break a wheel or bend the suspension.
As for not being in control of the car in fog I think that is a little unfair. In car footage is very deceptive. Vision is forshortened and the light is usually magnified hence you may be in the car and still able to see relativle well but from the video footage it might look like zero visibility.
To be fair Colin is a 'win or bust' driver to some extent, but these guys are there to win. That is why teams pay them and put millions of pounds into rallying. The win on Saturday means sales on Monday, a quote from Dave Richards I believe. The year that Subaru won in Corsica (96?) there were 5 Impreza turbos in the dealer on the island and noone had looked at them for weeks. Monday after the rally all of them went!
The driving style of the drivers also comes into the equation when you say about "being ragged and all over the place". Colin has an aggresive style whereas say Juha Kankkunen is more smooth. They can be just as quick as each other, as where one is slower through a part of the stage he may be quicker through a different part.
Sorry to spout on for so long
Mark
As for not being in control of the car in fog I think that is a little unfair. In car footage is very deceptive. Vision is forshortened and the light is usually magnified hence you may be in the car and still able to see relativle well but from the video footage it might look like zero visibility.
To be fair Colin is a 'win or bust' driver to some extent, but these guys are there to win. That is why teams pay them and put millions of pounds into rallying. The win on Saturday means sales on Monday, a quote from Dave Richards I believe. The year that Subaru won in Corsica (96?) there were 5 Impreza turbos in the dealer on the island and noone had looked at them for weeks. Monday after the rally all of them went!
The driving style of the drivers also comes into the equation when you say about "being ragged and all over the place". Colin has an aggresive style whereas say Juha Kankkunen is more smooth. They can be just as quick as each other, as where one is slower through a part of the stage he may be quicker through a different part.
Sorry to spout on for so long
Mark
08 October 2000, 08:39 PM
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Luck?
hmmm, depends what level of luck you mean...
Trust me completely when I tell you that to just keep a rally car going down a *straight* forest road at the speeds these guys are doing take so much talent, finesse, commitment, control, sensitivity, etc, etc luck is not the overriding thing that keeps the car on the road...
The type of luck you DO need, is if you just decide to push it 1% faster than you think is safe, to try to make a 10th up in order to win....
If everyone drove at their 10/10ths (of them and the car), the amount of accidents would be dramatically reduced, the difficult thing in a rally is managing your pace and when to risk it and when not to...
problem is, if you always choose the easy point to push it, everyone else is doing that also... so at times (if you want to be the very best) you need to push when it is not ideal to do so... that way, it is probably only you who will do it, and you'll make an advantage for yourself...
In terms of the "raggedness" or not just flooring it to be quick...
To be truly quick you need to have TOTAL sensitivity to the surface, the car, etc, etc. I promise you that every time Colin moves the throttle 1mm it is deliberately and carefully planned for a specific purpose. If you just recklessly went really fast, your time would be slow even if you finished the stage...
The thing is, the mental model of a top rally driver is a really spooky place. They are doing things at a level that is totally devorced from anything we experience on the road or race track. Being reckless wouldn't see you through the first 10 bends.
Why does he crash? Well, he hasn't as much lately...
In my opinion that is because the car is becoming more competetive... At first, the car was slow. But McRae can't cope with second place, he needs to win, so he was pushing the car WAY beyond it's abilities. Just look at the records of his team mate to see what an astonishing acheivement some of his results were. But now it is faster, he can drive it more within it's abilities and still get good results.
This almost "win at all costs" attitude is an incredibly endearing quality in a rally driver (IMHO), but I'm sure team managers both love him and hate him at times.
Cheers
Simon
PS. Cool subject!
hmmm, depends what level of luck you mean...
Trust me completely when I tell you that to just keep a rally car going down a *straight* forest road at the speeds these guys are doing take so much talent, finesse, commitment, control, sensitivity, etc, etc luck is not the overriding thing that keeps the car on the road...
The type of luck you DO need, is if you just decide to push it 1% faster than you think is safe, to try to make a 10th up in order to win....
If everyone drove at their 10/10ths (of them and the car), the amount of accidents would be dramatically reduced, the difficult thing in a rally is managing your pace and when to risk it and when not to...
problem is, if you always choose the easy point to push it, everyone else is doing that also... so at times (if you want to be the very best) you need to push when it is not ideal to do so... that way, it is probably only you who will do it, and you'll make an advantage for yourself...
In terms of the "raggedness" or not just flooring it to be quick...
To be truly quick you need to have TOTAL sensitivity to the surface, the car, etc, etc. I promise you that every time Colin moves the throttle 1mm it is deliberately and carefully planned for a specific purpose. If you just recklessly went really fast, your time would be slow even if you finished the stage...
The thing is, the mental model of a top rally driver is a really spooky place. They are doing things at a level that is totally devorced from anything we experience on the road or race track. Being reckless wouldn't see you through the first 10 bends.
Why does he crash? Well, he hasn't as much lately...
In my opinion that is because the car is becoming more competetive... At first, the car was slow. But McRae can't cope with second place, he needs to win, so he was pushing the car WAY beyond it's abilities. Just look at the records of his team mate to see what an astonishing acheivement some of his results were. But now it is faster, he can drive it more within it's abilities and still get good results.
This almost "win at all costs" attitude is an incredibly endearing quality in a rally driver (IMHO), but I'm sure team managers both love him and hate him at times.
Cheers
Simon
PS. Cool subject!
08 October 2000, 09:52 PM
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Agree totaly with Simon, Colin is never happy being an also ran, he may settle for second in a rally but would never be happy as a mid table driver in the Championship.
In 1994 the Impreza was nearly spot on but Colin just had to push it that bit further and had a few mishaps, Colin McCrash !! if you remember. I think he's been doing the same with the Focus.
1995 the car was sorted and Colin had a storming second half of the season, going into the RAC he was level on points with Carlos in an identicle car. We all know the result but I remember Carlos saying he was driving 110% and Colin was leaving him.
Current WRC events are 3-4 days long and the top ten are usually a lot closer than in a 2 hour F1 race, risks are taken and luck has to be on your side but any of the guys in the WRC teams are there on merit and Colins one of the best.
Cheers
Lee
MY96 Series McRea
In 1994 the Impreza was nearly spot on but Colin just had to push it that bit further and had a few mishaps, Colin McCrash !! if you remember. I think he's been doing the same with the Focus.
1995 the car was sorted and Colin had a storming second half of the season, going into the RAC he was level on points with Carlos in an identicle car. We all know the result but I remember Carlos saying he was driving 110% and Colin was leaving him.
Current WRC events are 3-4 days long and the top ten are usually a lot closer than in a 2 hour F1 race, risks are taken and luck has to be on your side but any of the guys in the WRC teams are there on merit and Colins one of the best.
Cheers
Lee
MY96 Series McRea
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