Notices
ScoobyNet General General Subaru Discussion

Can the Police Pull you without a reason ? Yes or No

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 29 December 2005, 02:19 AM
  #1  
pimmo2000
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
pimmo2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: On a small Island near France
Posts: 14,660
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Can the Police Pull you without a reason ? Yes or No

I'm sure there was an ad that said they need a reason!
My friend was pulled today, he had all his docs and very polity asked "Could you tell me why you pulled me please?" This guy was police tech support for a few years and has major respect for them! he even told them he used to work for the police when they asked if he'd been in trouble with them

"NO" was the reply, and the copper walked off.. this really made me angry.. the ***** of a copper could have said "sorry I cant" or made something up.. but the, I'll do as I please attitude really pissed me off!
Next time I get pulled I'm gonna report them if they even look at me wrong!
Old 29 December 2005, 06:59 AM
  #2  
Nathan L
Scooby Regular
 
Nathan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pimmo2000
Can the Police Pull you without a reason ? Yes or No
Yes.
Old 29 December 2005, 07:16 AM
  #3  
T5NYW
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
T5NYW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Posts: 11,468
Received 22 Likes on 19 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pimmo2000
"NO" was the reply, and the copper walked off.. this really made me angry.. the ***** of a copper could have said "sorry I cant" or made something up..
Everyone is allowed a bad day but agree the "I'm Hollier than thou" attitude is becoming very prevulent within the Police and I've met a few The Police provide an important but difficult service to the Community.

Where Goverments has concertrated on increasing performance figures the have neglected tothe all important "Police respect" figures which i reckon it has just keeps dropping. IMHO

Anyway back to your Question. I don't think they need a reason, as such. To be honest I don't think they should need to they have as long as your not picked on Robbers don't wear black masks and carry a bag with "Swag" written on the back They have to work on Instict and that sometimes goes wrong.

Tony
Old 29 December 2005, 07:18 AM
  #4  
pimmo2000
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
pimmo2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: On a small Island near France
Posts: 14,660
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I have a lot of respect for the police. very little for the law. A police person has a very difficult job, but by pissing me off (joe Public) their not helping themselves!

and yes my name is Joe Public, strange aint it
Old 29 December 2005, 07:20 AM
  #5  
elgordano
Scooby Regular
 
elgordano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Herts
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

why pull someone for no reason. surely there must be thousands of cars out there that can obvioulsy be pulled for something.
Old 29 December 2005, 07:26 AM
  #6  
pimmo2000
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
pimmo2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: On a small Island near France
Posts: 14,660
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by elgordano
why pull someone for no reason. surely there must be thousands of cars out there that can obvioulsy be pulled for something.
thats my point! Surely its in the drivers best interest and the polices for that matter to sort the problem out !

He was in a vectra, totally standard and diesel
Old 29 December 2005, 08:04 AM
  #7  
wide
Scooby Regular
 
wide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have respect for law but very little respect for Police, majority I meet are complete *****!
Old 29 December 2005, 08:12 AM
  #8  
pimmo2000
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
pimmo2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: On a small Island near France
Posts: 14,660
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wide
I have respect for law but very little respect for Police, majority I meet are complete *****!
I know a few and they are fine,

People getting away with **** is down to the law not the police!

Insurance companies **** me off more though.. I mean someone damages your car and it costs you ! Even if they catch them
Old 29 December 2005, 08:17 AM
  #9  
acko
Scooby Regular
 
acko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: grimsby
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

they can do what they want. 1 law for them and 1 law for us.

in the papers yesterday 45,950 police vehicels were snapped by speed cameras and only 9,128 were given the fine. What does that tell you about the police.
Old 29 December 2005, 08:45 AM
  #10  
brihoppy
Scooby Regular
 
brihoppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I have a lot of respect for the police. very little for the law. A police person has a very difficult job, but by pissing me off (joe Public) their not helping themselves!

and yes my name is Joe Public, strange aint it
very good point, never really considered it like that before...but lets not turn this into a police bashing thread again...if we had police forces like some of the countries ive recently been too, the uk would be in a far worse state than it is now (is that actually possible?!)...

edited to add that im not saying that excuses the behaviour and attitude of some police officers...
Old 29 December 2005, 08:47 AM
  #11  
highlander68k
Scooby Regular
 
highlander68k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wide
I have respect for law but very little respect for Police, majority I meet are complete *****!
That is my favourite quote of the year. Well said!
Old 29 December 2005, 08:51 AM
  #12  
New_scooby_04
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
 
New_scooby_04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I don't think officers can pull you over just like that I think there needs to be reasonable grounds for suspicion that you have comited, or might comit, an offence. Of course, what constitutes reasonable grounds is open to interpretation and we could be talking an offence as minor as having incorrect typeface on your numberplate or suspicion that your car might not be road worthy....dodgy brakelight etc...

I think you are entitled to certain things under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act though, including an explanation for why you have been stopped. If in doubt, you can always ask for the officers station and badge number, as far as I know they are required to give this if requested.

Don't tar them all with the same brush though, there are always a few bad apples in the bunch and you'll be amazed a what a smile a decent attitude can acheive.

NS04
Old 29 December 2005, 09:26 AM
  #13  
ryn004
Scooby Regular
 
ryn004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes.
Apparantly its a international thing, the police in Malta here do the same thing (stop you with no reason and try to **** you off)
Old 29 December 2005, 09:49 AM
  #14  
Gastro
Scooby Regular
 
Gastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes - without any doubt.
Old 29 December 2005, 11:02 AM
  #15  
Trap2Terrorist
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
 
Trap2Terrorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Surrounded by sheep, tidy.
Posts: 3,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes they can pull over you for no reason, the same as they can stop and search you in the street for no reason.

I didn't used to like the fact that they can but now I'm a bit older and wiser (all of 31!), have a nice car and nothing to hide, I can appreciate it.
Old 29 December 2005, 11:11 AM
  #16  
Dannno
Scooby Regular
 
Dannno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

they only need to to make a judgement or suspect that you may have commited an offence (acting in a suspicious manner)which means that they can stop you without reason!
Originally Posted by pimmo2000
I'm sure there was an ad that said they need a reason!
My friend was pulled today, he had all his docs and very polity asked "Could you tell me why you pulled me please?" This guy was police tech support for a few years and has major respect for them! he even told them he used to work for the police when they asked if he'd been in trouble with them

"NO" was the reply, and the copper walked off.. this really made me angry.. the ***** of a copper could have said "sorry I cant" or made something up.. but the, I'll do as I please attitude really pissed me off!
Next time I get pulled I'm gonna report them if they even look at me wrong!
Old 29 December 2005, 11:22 AM
  #17  
Moley
Sponsor
iTrader: (9)
 
Moley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,884
Received 24 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dannno
they only need to to make a judgement or suspect that you may have commited an offence (acting in a suspicious manner)which means that they can stop you without reason!
Like when i was pulled over because my friend was wearing a baseball cap, or another time when my friend was pulled because a car with 2 blokes and 2 women in, in the middle of the day looks suspicous apparently.
Old 29 December 2005, 11:32 AM
  #18  
scoobynutta555
Scooby Regular
 
scoobynutta555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Markyate.Imprezas owned:-wrx-sti5typeR-p1-uk22b-modded my00. Amongst others!
Posts: 8,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

Read this out of todays Telegraph. More powers for the little Hitlers no doubt.
Now you can be arrested for any offence
By John Steele, Crime Correspondent
(Filed: 29/12/2005)

Police are to be given sweeping powers to arrest people for every offence, including dropping litter, failure to wear a seat belt and other minor misdemeanours.

The measures, which come into force on Jan 1, are the biggest expansion in decades of police powers to deprive people of their liberty.

At present, officers can generally arrest people if they suspect them of committing an offence which carries at least five years in prison. They will now have the discretion to detain someone if they suspect any offence and think that an arrest is "necessary".

The civil liberties organisation Liberty said the change represented "a fundamental shift" in power from the public to the police and the state and was open to misuse.

It pointed out that powers to stop people under anti-terrorist legislation, which the public had been reassured would be applied correctly and sparingly, were wrongly used against an elderly heckler at the Labour Party conference in the autumn.

There are also worries that the new arrest laws will create major problems for constables, whose judgment on the "necessity" of an arrest is likely to be routinely challenged in the courts, particularly under human rights legislation.

Officers will have to satisfy themselves of "a person's involvement or suspected involvement or attempted involvement in the commission of a criminal offence" and that there are "reasonable grounds for believing that the person's arrest is necessary".

They will also have the power to take digital photographs of suspects on the street when they have been arrested, detained or given a fixed penalty notice.

The Home Office said the move would save time spent in taking suspects to a police station to be photographed and that it would "greatly reduce the ability of suspects to deny that they were the person in question".

But many people fear that the move will create a vast database of photographs of innocent citizens which could be kept even if the police decide not to take any further action against them.

The Government says that the existing legal framework on arrestable and non-arrestable offences has become "bewilderingly" complex and needs to be simplified.

A Home Office spokesman said yesterday that arrests would not soar because, in addition to the necessity test, many offences would be covered by fixed penalty notices.

Police chiefs have made clear that, although they were concerned about the current system, they did not ask for all offences to be arrestable.

Liberty said that three years ago the Home Office and the Cabinet Office had advocated "a definitive list" of arrestable offences and enhanced training, not a move towards all offences being arrestable.

Mark Oaten, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said: "Officers need firm guidance on how to use these new powers. Nobody wants to live in a society in which every offence results in people being dragged down to the police station."

Edward Garnier, the Tories' spokesman on home affairs, said: "The effect of the new arrangements will need to be monitored closely."

Like Liberty, he referred to the ejection from the Labour conference of Walter Wolfgang, 82, a refugee from **** Germany and a Labour Party member since 1948, and how a policeman citing the Terrorism Act detained him when he tried to get back into the hall.

Last edited by scoobynutta555; 29 December 2005 at 11:34 AM.
Old 29 December 2005, 11:33 AM
  #19  
John57
Scooby Regular
 
John57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The Police have the power to stop any motor vehicle on a road .... they do not need a reason but in reality will always have one for stopping someone - whether that be literally a stop check to make sure a car is not stolen or a documents check.

When you consider that a recent random check in SE London showed 1 in 3 drivers to be uninsured it is, however, no surprise random checks are done.

Personally, I have never pulled anyone over without a reason and if I did I would tell them - even if I am trawling for a drink driver.... in which case it would be something I have seen about their manner of driving - which, as I say I would tell them.

There is no harm is telling someone why they have been stopped - even if a totally random stop. It is just plain rude not to say anything and most people are understanding if they know the reason they have been stopped or realise they are not personally being picked on!

I am busy enough dealing with calls and there are certainly enough people that do things wrong right in front of me without generally resorting to truly 'random' stops.
Old 29 December 2005, 11:40 AM
  #20  
Trem
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
 
Trem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Trap2Terrorist
Yes they can pull over you for no reason
If a copper pulled over me I would be fuming, spunk leaves a stain you know!
Old 29 December 2005, 11:42 AM
  #21  
John57
Scooby Regular
 
John57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by scoobynutta555
Read this out of todays Telegraph. More powers for the little Hitlers no doubt.
Just seen your post ..... you have always been able to be arrested for 'any offence' if certain things apply - and for minor offences they usually don't.

Effectively nothing much will change with the introduction of the new powers - the government has changed something that worked well as it was because, like any government they can't resist fiddling with things ...... I am sure the lawyers will be happy though.
Old 29 December 2005, 12:09 PM
  #22  
Arctic Chill
Scooby Newbie
 
Arctic Chill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have not long received training about the change in law as discused in the Telegraph.
It does not let police arrest anyone, if anything it's the other way round. It is now harder for the police to justify why a person's liberty is being removed.

As for being stopped by the police, if your car was in pristine condition, all lights working etc, and was stolen wouldn't you want it to be stopped. Not all car thieves drive like idiots.
I am sorry that cop was rude though, there is no excuse for that. There are plenty of criminals to vent frustrations on not a decent member of the public who just happened to get pulled over.
Old 29 December 2005, 12:34 PM
  #23  
wacky.banana
Scooby Regular
 
wacky.banana's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Arctic Chill, John57,

Thanks for your input to this.

If you wear your other hat as citizens, rather than Policemen, are you guys not alarmed by these fundamental shifts in legislation, seemingly with very little/no public debate, and their potential negative impacts on the law abiding public, and impact on the relationship between the public and the Police?

Blair, the London CPO, said recently that the Police could not do their job effectively, if at all, without the cooperation and help of the public.

Please see the thread link below, and Hedgehog's comments before responding.

Cheers

WB

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...77#post5297477
Old 29 December 2005, 01:02 PM
  #24  
Isoproturon
Scooby Regular
 
Isoproturon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Trap2Terrorist
Yes they can pull over you for no reason, the same as they can stop and search you in the street for no reason.

I didn't used to like the fact that they can but now I'm a bit older and wiser (all of 31!), have a nice car and nothing to hide, I can appreciate it.

You cannot be stopped for NO reason, but they can stop you to look at your documents even if no offences are revealed.

And you cannot be searched without grounds - they have to supply you with a form detailing who they are, what the grounds were etc.

GO WISELY...

Last edited by Isoproturon; 29 December 2005 at 01:10 PM.
Old 29 December 2005, 01:13 PM
  #25  
John57
Scooby Regular
 
John57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wacky.banana
Arctic Chill, John57,

Thanks for your input to this.

If you wear your other hat as citizens, rather than Policemen, are you guys not alarmed by these fundamental shifts in legislation, seemingly with very little/no public debate, and their potential negative impacts on the law abiding public, and impact on the relationship between the public and the Police?

Blair, the London CPO, said recently that the Police could not do their job effectively, if at all, without the cooperation and help of the public.

Please see the thread link below, and Hedgehog's comments before responding.

Cheers

WB

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...77#post5297477
Yes, I do worry ...... things could quite clearly go too far and it does bother me.

As for ANPR though, I use it (in car) and know how it works. There are issues that have, in the main, been addressed. We know it is not the magic cure for crime some people would have you believe but it is a handy tool nonetheless.

I am not going to go into why on a public website but I definitely do not see ANPR as currently used in any way as a threat to my free movement.....
Old 29 December 2005, 02:15 PM
  #26  
hedgehog
Scooby Regular
 
hedgehog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,985
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by John57
I am not going to go into why on a public website but I definitely do not see ANPR as currently used in any way as a threat to my free movement.....
What about the following application of the Section 44 laws though:

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....2&postcount=25

Pretty unpleasant I would have thought.

I suspect that ANPR, RFID tags in number plates, DNA and fingerprinting at the roadside for anyone stopped, Road Charging and satellite spy chips will all be interlocked and cross referenced. So, a weakness in one system will not be such a big problem because while ANPR, for example, may not be currently keeping records of movements the road charging system will be.

It must also be said that, as I maintain, society gets the police force it deserves. Recent reports indicated, for example, that all the good recruits leave the police and that the force is left with what the tabloid press described as the "Thickos." This isn't the fault of individual police officers within the force who also disagree with a lot of what is being done and a lot of the PC concessions being forced through while window dressing is piled on top to make the government appear "tough on crime." It isn't the police force who are launching spy satellites, or engineering congestion into the road system to allow for the introduction or road tolls. All these ideas are coming from their political masters and since Thatcher gave the police a pay rise to beat up the striking miners we have been on a downward slope all the way.

So, while it is perfectly reasonable to criticise the police force and the attitude problems that now seem to inflict the majority of the force if we want to change things then we have to do something about it. Those police officers who get by through being bad at their job ("my ***** are made of steel" "Why if you'd seen the things I've seen..." "Look at the size of my ego...") will not just give up and go home for the good of the force. If the government keep getting away with using the force as a political tool (remember the Party Conference?) then they will continue to follow this route. So, it is important that the general public call for a strong police force free from political manipulation and, in turn, the public must give their strong support to such a force so that the government are unable to put pressure on it when they need "favours." Of course this is a chicken and egg situation, do we give our support now to a dodgy force to drive it to improve or do we insist on improvements before we offer support? In the end the only thing we can do is apply political pressure, demand action from our MPs and make our views known. Society gets the police force it deserves and we deserve one that is free from political control and that has access to, and the ability to hold on to, good quality recruits who will offer us the policing we want without need to pander to someone in government.
Old 29 December 2005, 03:20 PM
  #27  
acko
Scooby Regular
 
acko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: grimsby
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SimonGawthorpe

As for the speed camera figures, what the press didnt tell you is that the Police cars and drivers caught speeding and NOT fined were the ones responding to emergency jobs to help people and therefore exempt from speeding laws. It's just another spineless attack at the Police by the press.


the press did state that an awful lot of them flashed were NOT and did NOT have there blue lights flashing, so to me they should be held responsible and made to pay the fine and get the points on there licence just like joe public would have to.

P.S. bet your a copper
Old 29 December 2005, 03:51 PM
  #28  
Stainy
Scooby Regular
 
Stainy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Lots of them will have been speeding plain and simple. But the fact is that under law Police are exempt from sticking to the speed limit if doing so hinders the execution of their duty. There's no mention of turning blue lights on and if asked, how many of them do you think wont say they they needed to speed? (and if anyone tells me they wouldn't use the same loophole if they had it, you're a lying B***ard!)

As far as the vehicle stop is concerned, they definately don't need any reason to stop you (search is different).

Finally, top post Hedgehog
Old 29 December 2005, 04:13 PM
  #29  
MikeCardiff
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
 
MikeCardiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

You're more likely to get a random tug this time of year anyway, with the Police being on the lookout for drunk drivers etc... - maybe your mate swerved a little on the road or took a corner a bit quick etc... and they thought they'd stop him just to see if there was any obvious signs he was on his way back from the pub.

I dont disagree that there are bad coppers out there, but most wont stop people just for a laugh and waste their own time - even if they dont tell you, they probably have a reason in mind for stopping you, even if its just being young or scruffy while driving a flash car.

I was stopped on my Ducati not long after I'd had it and was worried the copper would do me for having race exhausts fitted, but it turned out he was a biker ( as are loads of traffic coppers ) and he hadnt seen the bike around the area as they are pretty rare, and wanted to a) have a closer look at it, and b) find out who owned it.

He told me most of the traffic coppers get to know who owns flash cars and bikes in the area and they do keep an eye out for someone else driving them in case they get nicked.

Only thing I did object to was him spending ten minutes boring the **** off me telling me all the bikes hes owned in the past, what his mates have owned, what hes getting next etc... ;0)
Old 29 December 2005, 07:23 PM
  #30  
Isoproturon
Scooby Regular
 
Isoproturon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Stainy
As far as the vehicle stop is concerned, they definately don't need any reason to stop you (search is different).
Oh, so I suppose what I was told at training college was wrong then? You need some reason, even if it is just exercising the right to check a driving licence.


Quick Reply: Can the Police Pull you without a reason ? Yes or No



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:13 PM.