eng622

Read a lot about both but seek owners advice. PPP seems to deliver less than quoted power so is the TSL the same? I know I will loose any warranty if I go for the TSL but would this just apply to the engine? Like the sound of the extra bottom end grunt of the TSL but are their other factors to sway me to PPP? Do they both have a full stainless exhaust, so what are the differnces, I don't want to keep making mods and want one that will last? Finally the overriding question which may make the decision. Can you insure the TSL 333 as a Prodrive? I ask since my present company and a couple of others contacted list the Prodrive and the quote was very good, however if I mention power upgrade for TSL of 25% over standard Sti they either won't quote or the premiun is outrageous (to me anyway)
Many thanks

GazTheHat

The PPP is a generic mod, plug n play. TSL get you on the RR. Details of the mods, inc the exhaust:
http://www.prodrive.co.uk/uploads/03MY%20STi%20PPP.pdf

http://www.tsl-motorsport.co.uk/news...0002&detail=45

Here's more info.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...hlight=tsl+333
Plus you could type 'tsl' or '333' in the search forum option for more info.

You could also buy the Evo Mag back issue (Jun 04) which has a write-up about the tuning co's for this kinda mod. I did. Check eBay etc...

If you insure your tsl mod as a prodrive, your insurance is void, simple. If the insurance is too much for you with the tsl mod, then get the PPP an be done with it.

ShyTot

I will pick up on a couple of points, because I havn't driven a TSL, only a PPP

The PPP on the MY02 STI completely transforms the power delivery at lower revs and gives you a much nicer car to drive in slower traffic. I understand that the difference is less pronounced on later STI models because the non PPP starting point was not quite so bad.
I personally don't care about the power output at 6000 rpm, but I can tell you that there is a big difference between the non PPP and the PPP between about 2500 rpm and 3800 rpm.

As for insurance, you can't insure a PPP as an "STI Prodrive" model, although I imagine alot do. The "STI Prodrive" model listed on most insurance companies is the "MY02 STI Prodrive styling model, not the PPP version. I wouldn't risk that.....
You have two choices for insurance now. If you have an MY05 model, then some insurance companies are starting to recognise the "STI type UK 301", as it is now registered with the ABI, other than that, it should be classed as a "modified car", and for the PPP that is 15% BHP modified, but for the TSL it is 25% BHP modified, both also have a modified exhaust.
That may not make a HUGE difference for a couple of the insurance companies mentioned on here, but for most it is a big problem. Even Privilege will charge you a 25% additional premium for adding a PPP to the STI, no doubt much more for the TSL

GazTheHat

Do you know if Admiral would charge similar?

p1doc

recent big thread on general re tsl 333,also try aplan
martin

Gutmann pug

PPP and TSL333 are similar in price I think. However its worth considering that PPP is a recognised mod in Parkers guide etc and is worth around £750 when trading in. TSL however is not and will generally detract from std cars value (unless selling privately of course)

My suggestion would be

If you have a UK car which will be changed in the next 3 years buy PPP
If you have a UK car which you will be keeping a long time TSL
If you have a Euro car and no access to PPP then either leave as is, or get TSL but accept its money lost at trade in time.

I have the TSL by the way and the car is great. How much different is it than a PPP car? probably not an awful lot in fairness, an extra 28bhp on a car as big and heavy as the scoob wont make that much difference.

Scoobynet is a great place for people to talk you out of money, sometimes for the wrong reasons. For example they bought it and to justify their spend they bang on about it.

Consider the points above before you purchase and if necessary drive the cars back to back.


Gary

eng622

My insurance Co. is First Alternative and the quote they gave me was for a MY 2003 Prodrive and as I understand in that year this was not a cosmetic option so I took it to include the power upgrade. When I mentioned TSL and a power upgrade they would not quote, so perhaps I should check out with them the Prodrive quote and I ill also try A plan. Many thanks for all advice

STEVECHAPS

Although it's more about driveability than anything the difference between an 03PPP & the 333 (remap only on top of PPP) is significant & feels an awful lot more than 10%. My problem with the ppp on my car was the on/off switch nature of the power delivery & the laggy response (god knows what a non ppp is like - waiting for xmas???).
Myself & Dazza did a series of rolling tests on our private airfield last year & there was enough of a difference in terms of straight forward performance between the PPP & PPP remap to in my humble opinion make the extra money I spent very worthwhile . The quicker spool up & longer smoother range of power enabled it to get a lead & hold it with the gear changes then coming later.
In a couple of instances it was very noticeable, a couple of others negligible but generally the remapped car pulled a couple of car lengths eg 40-?0.
I now have an 05ppp & have been assured that it's a 'developed' map so next week when I'm free to drive it post 1k service we'll see. If I don't like it in the same way I didn't like the 03ppp then warranty or not It'll get 333'd either remap only or the full hog with the ppp bits going on ebay to get some of the cost back!
At the end of the day drive both if you can.
PPP is a great package in as much as it gives a reasonable insurance friendly, warrenty intact increase in performance but with the drawback of a standard map which may suit car x better than car y, whereas the 333 has the advantage of being tailored to each engine's 'characteristics'.
In short: Warrenty/Insurance v Risk/That little bit extra!

G_Sleigh_STi

Triple 3 from TSL. Customer service is so good its unreal. So next you know anything crops up. just pop down, have a chat with the lads and they are always more than willing to help out.

The Triple 3 pack is also crazy impressive. Still loving mine.

ShyTot

"Just pop down" - Thats fine if you live in Nottingham!!!

p1doc

i popped down from dundee 3 times so far!
martin

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Did you ever consider the new turbo route on yours Steve? Any ideas as to what the potential cost would have been and what you would have done had you kept the car.

I'm really tempted to add something to it now but confused about the route to go down.

Dont forget to give me a shout when you need to borrow the wheels (and on a more depressing note........the graphics are coming off the car this weekend as I'm starting to use it for work more and more now....gutting!)

G_Sleigh_STi

Thats true, i do live just down the road. lol. Well down some really nice twisty country lanes actually so its even fun doing the 5 min trip their

STEVECHAPS

Hi Rob, my next plan was to go past the turbo's power rating (350bhp) & had tentatively sounded out TSL but never got round to serious discussions.
AFAIK the engine itself is ok up to 400 but if you look at WRC's web site then it's £7k+ to get there!
My problem was that having (potentially) junked the warranty for what I considered to be a safe upgrade I didn't want to lose reliability (so I bought a plastic bathtub which wouldn't work properly if it rained! Go figure!!!!!!).

I'll be in touch regards the wheels but as my new car is presently off road being fixed (long story but warrenty work on a 3 week old car), & as the Yellow wheels are actually growing on me, I'm not able to sort it yet.

Remember to use a hairdryer when you remove the graphics. It will be a shame to take them off but it's not unique anymore I guess & attracts soooo much attention. Have you thought about going from one extreme to the other & debadging totally?
Cheers
Steve

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Well sent TSL a mail Steve to see what they think and asked for a bit of advice. We'll see what they say. Must admit not really wanting to plough too much in her after my last love affair with modifying the Classic..........

Bit depressed about losing the graphics. Will certainly look very different come tomorrow evening though.

Sorry to hear about the car. Bet you wished you'd never swapped now!

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Have to agree, The service at TSL is really good, and are always willing to help.