Gav

I was watching some WRC on tv and i thought to myself "how would a standard scoob go on in a rally?"

Would it be miles behind or not to bad?? I'm basing this on a stock STI or Spec c!

How much of a WRC car are they???????

Gav..

scooby_matt

I reckon they look similar that's all.

The WRC cars cost something like half a million each

highlander68k

lol @ scooby_matt - that pretty much sums it up - looks!

It think it may be more of a case of would they finish. Those WRC cars really get some grief. A road car's geometry get's knocked out of alignment if they just look at a pot-hole, let alone some of the surfaces the WRC cars encounter.

It's an interesting thought, any volunteers?

Dracoro

It would probably last less than a mile. The suspension would probably fail first, if not that some stones being thrown into the engine bay would do some damage. You'd get a puncture on normal road tyres straight away and the dash would fall apart

The shocks, springs, wishbones etc. were not designed for the stresses that a rally involves so my bet is as above, the suspension would **** up in the 1st mile on any course other than a tarmac stage.

TonyFlow

OK then, how much money would be needed to make a Scoob able to complete a rally stage! Always wondered, as with the low price you can pick a scoob up for now, I think that in 3 or 4 years, I will get myself an early RA and have a go at a bit of rallying!

Pootle

Used to wonder the same thing about BTCC cars until I was able to have a good look at the BMWs that used to run.

They were bespoke from the tire-tread up!! Any similarity to a production road car ended at the bodyshell outline (and bizzarely, the little bit of dash that could be seen by the in-car camera).

dibbleyuk

iTrader: (1)

im abit mad in mine... being based on a rally car for some reason i think of it as one lol i like to do abit of off roading sometimes

abc

20 years ago (!) when we lived in Australia we had a Subaru (a Leone wagon, I think -- I'm not aware of the model actually having a name!) and they were highly rated for reliability and toughness off-road, and we certainly took ours into some wild and remote places where you might be lucky to see one other car per day. We had no mechanical problems, nor did the interior show any serious wear. The only limitation on rocky terrain, and it was a big one, was lack of ground clearance, though a serious OEM sump-guard helped a lot. They went very well in light sand and on gravel, but it was essential to drive with the great mantra of outback travel constantly in the front of your mind: "preserve your vehicle at all costs". There were no service barges, chase cars, or recovery vehicles! So speeds would be nowhere near WRC speeds, obviously, and nor would the handling, equally obviously. That said, I think a stock modern Scoob plus sump-guard would certainly finish -- but probably no-one would be around to see it do so!

From what I gather from friends still in Australia and NZ, Scoobs are still highly rated for toughness and reliability; you certainly see a lot of them out there.

In general though, I doubt there is much beyond body-work and basic engine design and transmission layout in common between a road car and a WR car.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

The body shell would end up twisted pretty damn quickly too!

ru'

Does anyone know the mods they do to scoobs for the group N class?

GC8

The bodyshell would fall to pieces; spend a little time Googling 'rally bodyshell preparation' and itll all be revealed...

Simon

Graz

The full on WRC car is as already mentioned a bespoke item. The only thing it really shares with its road going variant is the body shape and the 2l flat four engine but with massive upgrades, blueprinting, etc.

However group N is supposed to be based on production cars and there are limitations as to what is allowed. Subaru sell the spec C in a stripped down form (e.g. MY 06 Impreza WRX STI Spec C 16” Motorsport Edition This model has 16” alloys, throw away interior, brakes and is only suitable for Motorsport) specifically for group N conversion. From this base an FIA approved weld in roll cage is required, uprated suspension and wheels (gravel and/or tarmac spec.), sump guards, fire extingisher, etc.

There was an article in the previous True Grip written by TSL about the production of a group N rally car from the spec C base. Still costs £££ but not the 0.5 million plus for a WRC car.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Similiar in principle (flat four 2ltr turbo, 4WD etc..) and looks

Very different in practice and beneath the skin.

Oh, and the rally car costs a few bob more too!!

NS04

ReggieMY99

The wrc rally cars are actually modified productions cars

this link answers some questions about that

http://www.rally.subaru.com/rally/se...?part=1&page=1

peachy wrx

i imagine the older the scooby there nearer you get to the rally car....but the new ones dont even look similar let alone under the skin

Gav

So whats the difference with seam welding and normal welding????

Gav..

GC8

Cars are spot welded; seam welding is either a continuous weld or maybe 75mm welded followed by 75mm not. A massive amount of bodyshell preparation goes into a Group N car, let alone Group A / WRC.

Simon

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Prodive can do you a Group N car for around £80,000 I'll have 2 Guv

leonpoole

It would be a good idea for topgear to try. Get clarkson to take a scoob or evo round a rally stage (well as far round as it could get).I know id like to see a road car fall apart on a rally stage.

Tidgy

i've seen a video of a standard sti and then a rally car doing a slalam on a track (normal tarmac race track) the rally car pisses all over it, where the road car drops as it turn and understears a bit the rally car just turns in and goes round the corner doing about twice the speed of the road car.

pippyrips

new group n cars can be found for about £70,000 i think

scooby_matt

I think it'd raise a small tear

Danny B

Sometimes even less.. http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/43423.htm

Syms PWRC

Hi guys,

I am the marketing/event coordinator for Syms PWRC and we build and run Subaru Impreza Type C Group N production rally cars on the WRC.

This will be a fairly long reply but I can tell you exactly what we do to the cars, how many hours they take to prepare and how much they cost.

Lets start with the guy who asked how close to WRC cars are road Scoobies.....Nothing like.

The cars do cost close to £500,000. Nowadays , Prodrive use timed usage parts and this bumps the prices up enormously. Ie they may build a WRC engine and it must be rebuilt every 1000kms. Rebuild cost....Minimum £25000.
The computer control system is now costing over £75000 alone. If you buy a 2005 spec car from Prodrive you have to employ one of their engineers to actually look after the computer system as it is so secret. Bump a corner after a heavy landing and kiss goodbye to at least £25000. They do not use a standard bodyshell. The basis is there but virtually nothing on your road car will fit.


Now back to Group N cars.

Basically it is the car you drive on the street. Here are the main things we do when we prep a car:

Take bare shell. Seam weld (virtually as already described). Fit multi point roll cage. Remove all glass and roof panel to achieve this fitment otherwise you cannot get to weld the top most welds. Replace roof. The roll cage acts as a body stiffener and has been carefully designed to give maximum performance from the chassis (shell).

Engine: Completely strip and rebuild using matched pistons etc etc to get finite balance. Various other tweaks within the rules but cannot divulge. Programme ECU's to suit FIA fuel. This alone is worth 15/20 BHP.

Gearbox: Change to dog box as homologated by Subaru STi. Strip and rebuild for each event.

Diffs: Set to ultimate tolerences and to suit driver style.

Fit STi driveshafts.....Rally spec.

Use standard brakes with metallic pads

As far as possible loose weight wherever we can down to the minimum allowed.

Fit Bag tank for petrol.

Fit floor guards, sill guards, internal foot plates , wheel carrier in vehicle (for weight distribution). Fit ultra thin glass (now standard on cars).

Fit 50 or 55 mm tube external reservoir suspension units by Tein. Hand built and costing around £5000 + per set.

Fit Carbon rally seats, fire extinguishers, trip computers, cut offs etc.

On event we will reset the track etc at least twice per day. Even our cars hit bumps.

Air filters are changed twice or more if very dusty each day.

No primer when we paint the cars. Saves many kilos in weight.

If we have the bare shell returned from the bodyshop with the cage installed at least 150 hours are already used.

An engine build alone may take over 40 hours.

Gearbox....8 hours.

Fit all to car, brake/fuel lines inside (aeroquip), to full build and ready for the road.....in a rush.........2 days...in practice.....one week.

So there you have it......Road car lets say.....£24000
Extra to convert to Group N rally car......Minimum to compete at top level £26000 but you would not be competitive.

As with our car last year when we won the championship........Total cost of new Group N car on the road £65/75000.

If you wish to go club forest rallying you could buy a car and prepare it for £10/12000 and you could go out and be well up the field. It would not fall apart.

If you are happy doing airfield type events then you could prep a road car for maybe £4000 or less as you dont need severe welding and really have a good time. Plenty of second hand parts nowadays.

good luck and I hope at least some of you get to try it some day.

Howard

Always assuming you can drive......

ru'

Excellent reply! Cheers for the info.


So, I can't afford to buy the car, and I can't drive it properly? I think I'll stick to Richard Burns Rally on the PC for now then...

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

In best Blue Peter tradition.

Here's one I made earlier.















Mark

GC8

I bet you had fun removing all of that seam sealer. Ive seam welded one car, I'll pay someone else to do the next one..... I did it all 100% too, not a 50%er (50mm welded - 50mm not).

Simon

Syms PWRC

Hi Mark,

An interesting shell and cage......obviously Group A and may I say that the welding looks excellent. A few hours work there !!!!!!!!

What series car and what are you doing with it........events that is??

H

StickyMicky

yea i saw that one, the jap one if i recall

StickyMicky

does the primer really weigh a good few kilos