PPP, Prodrive Springs & Geometry - Initial Review
20 July 2005, 08:28 AM
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PPP, Prodrive Springs & Geometry - Initial Review
Hiya. Had the above fitted to my 05 WRX (10k miles) on Monday, together with prodrive mudflaps. In case anyone is considering doing the same, here's what I reckon:
1) Mudflaps -
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
2) Prodrive Springs & Geometry -
As these were done at the same time I can't comment on the contribution of each of these individually. The car is slightly lower due to the springs, which makes it look better.
Handling is much better; body roll, lift and dive are all much reduced and the car feels much more planted on the road. Turn-in is much sharper, and grip is better (less understeer). I need to wait until I get a shot at some wet roundabouts to see how much understeer has really been reduced on the limit (I'm too scared to do it in the dry on public roads).
Comfort seems to be unchanged from before, which is amazing. I use the car every day and I didn't want a boneshaker ride.
It's too early to comment on tyre wear.
3) PPP -
First impression was the noise when starting it up/tickover; this is what scoobies should sound like! The noise from a standard wrx is pathetic, but the new PPP backbox (and possibly the loss of the centre moggy) is what I was after. It just sounds great all the time - even on the motorway (where sadly I spend a fair amount of time) there was no unwanted noise intrusion, just a bass note sitting behind the tyre/road noise.
Having a chat with the gaffer at the place where it was fitted he advised me that for protection the new map restricted boost when the engine was cold and when it was hot. Well, I don't drive hard until its warm but its good to know anyway. He also said a few people have complained about the PPP, saying it wasn't 'noticeable' enough - apparently they took their comments back when they realised how fast they were going...
Basically it's made the wrx into a better all-round car. Power delivery is smooth right across the rev range; changing up a gear early doesn't result in a drop off of acceleration, it just keeps pulling in the next gear. Whereas before I didn't drive at below 2k rpm, now its smooth down to just above 1.5k rpm.
I can't comment on fuel economy yet, it's too early.
In summary, the changes have turned a capable car into a great car (for my purposes). I've got to add these to the list of "things you have to do to a wrx" (along with changing the head-unit and 'speakers).
1) Mudflaps -
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
2) Prodrive Springs & Geometry -
As these were done at the same time I can't comment on the contribution of each of these individually. The car is slightly lower due to the springs, which makes it look better.
Handling is much better; body roll, lift and dive are all much reduced and the car feels much more planted on the road. Turn-in is much sharper, and grip is better (less understeer). I need to wait until I get a shot at some wet roundabouts to see how much understeer has really been reduced on the limit (I'm too scared to do it in the dry on public roads).
Comfort seems to be unchanged from before, which is amazing. I use the car every day and I didn't want a boneshaker ride.
It's too early to comment on tyre wear.
3) PPP -
First impression was the noise when starting it up/tickover; this is what scoobies should sound like! The noise from a standard wrx is pathetic, but the new PPP backbox (and possibly the loss of the centre moggy) is what I was after. It just sounds great all the time - even on the motorway (where sadly I spend a fair amount of time) there was no unwanted noise intrusion, just a bass note sitting behind the tyre/road noise.
Having a chat with the gaffer at the place where it was fitted he advised me that for protection the new map restricted boost when the engine was cold and when it was hot. Well, I don't drive hard until its warm but its good to know anyway. He also said a few people have complained about the PPP, saying it wasn't 'noticeable' enough - apparently they took their comments back when they realised how fast they were going...
Basically it's made the wrx into a better all-round car. Power delivery is smooth right across the rev range; changing up a gear early doesn't result in a drop off of acceleration, it just keeps pulling in the next gear. Whereas before I didn't drive at below 2k rpm, now its smooth down to just above 1.5k rpm.
I can't comment on fuel economy yet, it's too early.
In summary, the changes have turned a capable car into a great car (for my purposes). I've got to add these to the list of "things you have to do to a wrx" (along with changing the head-unit and 'speakers).
20 July 2005, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ru'
1) Mudflaps -
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
Thinking about the Scott Lowe ones, but it would be nice to get official Scooby ones if possible...
20 July 2005, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lordretsudo
Can I ask how much these cost? I really want some flaps for my car (oo-er) but I think I read they cost a few hundred pounds, right?! Thinking about the Scott Lowe ones, but it would be nice to get official Scooby ones if possible...
Thinking about the Scott Lowe ones, but it would be nice to get official Scooby ones if possible...Have a look on Scott's website as they aren't as much as you think
and if you can fit them yourself, you'll at least save the dealer's labour rate 
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20 July 2005, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by abc
I've been thinking about putting Prodrive springs on my PPPd 05 wagon, so that's very useful. Re understeer: What tyres are you using?
20 July 2005, 03:19 PM
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Is there are Prodrive geometry setup for the wagon? Probably worth finding out if possible, and getting done at the same time as the springs?
20 July 2005, 06:42 PM
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Copyed and pasted from subaru web site.
Front Black Prodrive Mudflaps Helps To Protect The Bodywork From Flying Stones And Reduce Road Spray In Wet Weather. Supplied In Pairs (4 Door Models Only
Part No. SACC2592
£ 112.49 (inc. VAT, exc. Fitting - unless otherwise stated above)
Rear Black Prodrive Mudflaps Helps To Protect The Bodywork From Flying Stones And Reduce Road Spray In Wet Weather. Supplied In Pairs (4 Door Models Only)
Part No. SACC2593
£ 112.49 (inc. VAT, exc. Fitting - unless otherwise stated above)
Front Black Prodrive Mudflaps Helps To Protect The Bodywork From Flying Stones And Reduce Road Spray In Wet Weather. Supplied In Pairs (4 Door Models Only
Part No. SACC2592
£ 112.49 (inc. VAT, exc. Fitting - unless otherwise stated above)
Rear Black Prodrive Mudflaps Helps To Protect The Bodywork From Flying Stones And Reduce Road Spray In Wet Weather. Supplied In Pairs (4 Door Models Only)
Part No. SACC2593
£ 112.49 (inc. VAT, exc. Fitting - unless otherwise stated above)
20 July 2005, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ru'
Hiya. Had the above fitted to my 05 WRX (10k miles) on Monday, together with prodrive mudflaps. In case anyone is considering doing the same, here's what I reckon:
1) Mudflaps -
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
1) Mudflaps -
My car's red, so I chose the black ones with the prodrive logo. I reckon they look great, but admitedly it's each to their own on that one. It's been dry so I can't comment on whether the car stays cleaner. All I will say is that it's possible to ground them out on very tight corners and high speed humps - no doubt I'll wear them down to suit my driving eventually, lol. Apart from that, really well made (probably won't wear them down in fact).
20 July 2005, 07:01 PM
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I'm not sure, however the bottom of the flaps is about 30mm (guessing here; I'll have to go outside and have a proper look) off the ground at its lowest point.
I like them low though, so its fine with me (although the noise was a bit scary when it happened!)
I like them low though, so its fine with me (although the noise was a bit scary when it happened!)
20 July 2005, 07:02 PM
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Fitting rear solid drop links will dial out most if not all of the understeer in the lastest wrx.
I'm planning to get the prodrive spring kit fitted to my 05 wrx in the near future, however, I fitted powerflex rear droplinks some time ago and haven't noticed any understeer since. 22mm adj. ARB is also on the list to dail out any remaining roll if possible, but as I've said I'm quite happy with balance at the moment..!
Dry roundabouts = 4 wheel drift if you're in the mood, quite something for the wrx..!
I'm planning to get the prodrive spring kit fitted to my 05 wrx in the near future, however, I fitted powerflex rear droplinks some time ago and haven't noticed any understeer since. 22mm adj. ARB is also on the list to dail out any remaining roll if possible, but as I've said I'm quite happy with balance at the moment..!
Dry roundabouts = 4 wheel drift if you're in the mood, quite something for the wrx..!
20 July 2005, 07:56 PM
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Sounds interesting. What about the warranty fitting non-approved items such as the drop links? What exactly are they (okay, I could search, I know)?
20 July 2005, 10:03 PM
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genuine subaru mud flaps are easy to fit - did mine after work on tuesday night - took hour and a half ish? hardest thing is you have to drill holes in the car - requires jacking up + removing wheels. all correct fittings make job easy.
i don't have prodrive spring kit so used lower holes
best thing was only paid £76 (genuine STI, brand new off ebay - jap instructions though but easy to follow pics)
i don't have prodrive spring kit so used lower holes
best thing was only paid £76 (genuine STI, brand new off ebay - jap instructions though but easy to follow pics)
20 July 2005, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ru'
Is there are Prodrive geometry setup for the wagon? Probably worth finding out if possible, and getting done at the same time as the springs?The springs & geometry were done originally at Wilson's & then the geometry was done again about a year later at Elite. They have menu settings or will customise to your requirements.
Mark
21 July 2005, 06:46 PM
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Mark, think I've said this before but, fine looking motor..!
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
21 July 2005, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonius
Mark, think I've said this before but, fine looking motor..!
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
And it now has way less understeer. this is probably due to the toe out at the rear, instead of the toe-in prodrive specify.. i am much happier now
i drive a 03 wrx
21 July 2005, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonius
Mark, think I've said this before but, fine looking motor..!
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
Did you notice any difference after the Elite setup, seen as Wilsons had set it up originally..?
Not as much as I thought,but that's not such a suprise as Wilsons also used Prodrive's settings. I was told by Elite that mine hadn't been knocked out by much either.Carefull avoidance of potholes pays off.
I was just blown away with the change in ride & handling as soon as I had the springs,geometry & 18" wheels all done together.I can't say which gave what improvement.I just know that the Stealth Wagon is now as taut as a ballerina's backside.
Must get off to bed,early start to JAE tomorrow.
Mark
22 July 2005, 08:53 AM
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I had Prodrive springs fitted to my 2003 WRX PPP on Wednesday, and agree with Ru's observations.
In my opinion the ride/comfort is not compromised at all. It is different, and seems to be working harder over uneven surfaces, but intrudes less. A much better ride/feel.
There is significantly less body roll, and handling along with the tendancy to understeer early is massively improved.
Steering feel and weight is also improved, along with braking (due less dive I guess).
I would recommend these to anyone who is disspointed with the present set-up on an Newage. Cannot really see any reason not to, except cost!
I would recommend shopping around, as dealers vary considerably. My dealer suggests a geometry set-up slightly off of the full Prodrive settings, as they believe handling is not compromised, and it is less agressive on the tyres.....
The photo illustrates the ride height difference, although they may settle a little further.
Cheers, GE90
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...s/8893a390.jpg
In my opinion the ride/comfort is not compromised at all. It is different, and seems to be working harder over uneven surfaces, but intrudes less. A much better ride/feel.
There is significantly less body roll, and handling along with the tendancy to understeer early is massively improved.
Steering feel and weight is also improved, along with braking (due less dive I guess).
I would recommend these to anyone who is disspointed with the present set-up on an Newage. Cannot really see any reason not to, except cost!
I would recommend shopping around, as dealers vary considerably. My dealer suggests a geometry set-up slightly off of the full Prodrive settings, as they believe handling is not compromised, and it is less agressive on the tyres.....
The photo illustrates the ride height difference, although they may settle a little further.
Cheers, GE90
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...s/8893a390.jpg
22 July 2005, 01:13 PM
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and it is less agressive on the tyres.....
Wobbly.
p.s. Also completely agree with Ru regarding comfort/improved handling. This and the PPP make the WRX a serious driving machine
22 July 2005, 01:16 PM
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Does anyone know if you have to have a Geometry setup when putting the Prodrive spring kit on an MY05 STi? or is it just for the WRX?
Wobbly.
22 July 2005, 02:31 PM
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They will definately settle a bit more, did you notice the OEM springs had dropped a little from new (presuming you had car from new)..? Mine definately did.
Great comparison pic..!
How much did you pay..?
Great comparison pic..!
How much did you pay..?
Originally Posted by GE90
I had Prodrive springs fitted to my 2003 WRX PPP on Wednesday, and agree with Ru's observations.
In my opinion the ride/comfort is not compromised at all. It is different, and seems to be working harder over uneven surfaces, but intrudes less. A much better ride/feel.
There is significantly less body roll, and handling along with the tendancy to understeer early is massively improved.
Steering feel and weight is also improved, along with braking (due less dive I guess).
I would recommend these to anyone who is disspointed with the present set-up on an Newage. Cannot really see any reason not to, except cost!
I would recommend shopping around, as dealers vary considerably. My dealer suggests a geometry set-up slightly off of the full Prodrive settings, as they believe handling is not compromised, and it is less agressive on the tyres.....
The photo illustrates the ride height difference, although they may settle a little further.
Cheers, GE90
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...s/8893a390.jpg
In my opinion the ride/comfort is not compromised at all. It is different, and seems to be working harder over uneven surfaces, but intrudes less. A much better ride/feel.
There is significantly less body roll, and handling along with the tendancy to understeer early is massively improved.
Steering feel and weight is also improved, along with braking (due less dive I guess).
I would recommend these to anyone who is disspointed with the present set-up on an Newage. Cannot really see any reason not to, except cost!
I would recommend shopping around, as dealers vary considerably. My dealer suggests a geometry set-up slightly off of the full Prodrive settings, as they believe handling is not compromised, and it is less agressive on the tyres.....
The photo illustrates the ride height difference, although they may settle a little further.
Cheers, GE90
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...s/8893a390.jpg
22 July 2005, 03:51 PM
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Didn't notice any drop with std springs. The dealer seems to think that the rear settles more than the front.
Got a good deal, as I had the 20K service done at the same time. I also played one dealer against another, as fitiing and set-up is not cheap!
Got a good deal, as I had the 20K service done at the same time. I also played one dealer against another, as fitiing and set-up is not cheap!