dexter

I posted on here recently (thanks again to those who replied) about whether, or not, to PPP my new WRX. The replies were unanimous in its effectiveness, and I was advised to do it by most.

However, in deciding whether, or not, to shell out for it to be done, I am wondering what mods I would need to do (non-PPP) to achieve the same 40 BHP increase ?

I am aware that PPP is the only mod that allows the warranty to remain intact, but not withstanding this, surely the same power increase can be achieved less expensively, and, if so, is it the warranty of the entire engine that is affected, or just the parts that are altered/replaced by the modifications made ?

Thoughts, please, anyone ?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

You can gain more with an Sti intercooler, a full decat and Ecutek Remap for rather less than £1600. Andy F made about 305bhp and just over 320 ft lbs on the Project WRX in Scoobymag

NS04

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

I think I made 40bhp (over std.) with a full decat, dawes device, afr/knock display, a boost gauge and switching to optimax.
cost about £400 all in as most bits were bought of here

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

did the knock display and boost gauge really increase the power that much

fastfrank

Hi Mate,

I've got a WRX03 - simply just changing the back box and panel filter showed my car to be putting out 210bhp at the wheels, thats 265.9bhp/265ftlb at the flywheel. Its no bullsh1t.

dexter

Cheers Frank.

That certainly sounds like a good improvement ! It sounds like it should be the way to go for me, as I think that PPP, although giving peace of mind, is too expensive for what you actually get. I need to do some more homework on this, and then make a decision. Thanks again.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

If you increase the power in the engine you loose your warranty on ALL parts, as its the main point of stress due to increased performance.
The PPP is your best bet, if you want 300bhp you need an STi with PPP

Tony

dexter

Noted Tony. That does put a different slant on things now, as I am reluctant to completely destroy the warranty; peace of mind an` all that.

The warranty was actually one of the reasons that I bought new.

Having said all this, it`s not like I feel that the standard car isn`t quick, as it slaughters most things I meet up with anyway (not that that`s particularly the issue, but we all like the power, or else we wouldn`t get a Scoob), but even more power would be nice, but without having to fork out for as much as PPP costs.

Oh well, my decision then is whether to PPP, independent mods/re-map, or just leave it alone altogether.

We`ll see. Thanks for your advice Tony.

Daz34

IMHO the PPP is a great value package. Ok it might cost a bit more than sourcing your own remap & exhaust but you get to keep your warranty, it's recognised by insurance companies (most anyway!) and will add value to your car when you sell it rather than scaring potential buyers off. It's also the best developed tuning package out there.

dexter

Daz, I must admit mate, that I never even considered the fact that it does actually add value, and I do know what you mean about other mods not being to everyone`s liking. Another viewpoint, and thanks.

fastfrank

Dexter,

I fitted my Ninja backbox/filter at 6000miles (owned the car from new by the way). Its now on 24000 and feels just as mint. Personally I wouldn't be too concerned about the warranty melarcy unless you are screwing around with other bits like decats and dump valves. If your dealer is funny about you changing bits then you might have no alternative but to PPP.
I also do my oil changes every 5000miles or 6months (which ever comes first) and I'm sure that this will make all the difference in extending the longevity of the engine.
I've would think you very unlucky to have any major engine problems caused by an airfilter and backbox mods.

Once your car has seen out many more miles (in my case it was 16k) it starts to loosen up and feels even quicker. Providing you keep it past the 3year then you can go down the upgrade route which is what I intent to do (providing you don't decide to extend your warranty).

If you want to view my Rolling Road printout (its worth a look) - check out the link:

http://fastfrank.bikeshows.fotopic.net/c468429.html

Go NEXT>NEXT a couple of times to get to the picture of the printout.

Hope this helps

Go on- get those mods ;-)

Frank

fastfrank

Oh yeah, the reason why I didn't persue the PPP route - insurance hike was too high (like £450 extra a year). A backbox was no extra cost on my policy and provided more pull between 3500-4500 rpm

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

no, but it did mean I had an idea of how it was behaving under the new conditions, I was trying to show the whole package required not just the go-faster bits

as for warrenty, if your up to two spanners in the haynes book then I would fit what you like as none of it is particularly hard to replace should you need to go back to the dealer for anything

dexter

Frank, you`re gent, and thanks for your effort.

Just let me clarify; you`ve not had a re-map at all, just a back-box and filter ?

spireite

it's all ok increasing power , but you also need the capability to stop the car ppp give s you the lot

Daz34

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

does PPP come with brakes

patkin

Not that I'm aware of, FastFrank I would like to know what air filter you are talking about and is it just a Ninja backbox, no Decat ?? I have a MY05 WRX and its a Euro so PPP will affect the warranty as well but a backbox and filter can be put on and off easily.

Please contact me with more detail

fastfrank

hi, Dexter/Patkin

yep, my car's is stock aside from the Ninja Backbox and Green cotton panel filter. I have not remapped. I also use the recommended Shell Optimax fuel.

Personally I don't feel the brakes need changing as they're good enough for me. If you need more powerful brakes your leaving your braking too late.

If you read up on the Prodrive site the only recommended extra they suggest for you car once fitted with the PPP is the 18" wheels. Quote

Gutmann pug

PMSL .... maybe they give you a parachute too?

Gary

axgt_bwaii

iTrader: (6)

40bhp even without a remap?

stew

patkin

Would a K&N oil soaked filter be as good as the green cotton panel item ?

fastfrank

I think the K&N and Green are pretty much the same to be honest -both cotton based. They both use the same oil to lubricate - I used to have a K&N and used my green oil on it.

I presume you are talking about a K&N soaked filter and not a paper subaru filter soaked in K&N oil?

dexter

Bit of an update on this, as I have been doing some digging this week:

Spoken to the Service Manager at my dealer, and he tells me that independent mods will only affect the warranty if it can be proved that any engine problems were actually due to the mods themselves, so if the problems were not mod-related, then the warranty remains intact. He also felt that you would have to be very unlucky to get any type of engine problem due to a re-map, cat-back and filter. (Surprised me a bit all this, as I expected him to try to "sell" the PPP). Obviously a good dealer for a change (Riding & Co at Preston).

Something else they did point out though, was that PPP (as mentioned by someone earlier) does actually increase the value of the car, and is probably worth an extra £500 - £600 when you come to part-ex after 3 years. (Obviously nothing like the initial £1600 for PPP, but something to be considered.)

I also contacted A-plan, my insurance brokers, who informed me that both PPP, and independent mods (ie: re-map, cat-back and filter), would be an identical increase of £100 on the yearly premium, for me anyway. This doesn`t sound too bad compared to what some on the forum have mentioned.

Taking all this into consideration, and what others on here have said (special thanks to Fast Frank BTW), I still can`t bloody decide what to do.

fastfrank

Hi Dexter - cheers for the comments.

Seems simple to me, your dealer is happy for you to mod so just start with a backbox and filter. See how that goes for a while then if you feel the need go down the remap route. This could be the cheapest option if you have limited funds.

How old is your car? - you should pop down to check out my car, maybe you'll feel more comfortable about the mods if you saw one in the flesh?

Your dealer is quite right by saying the stuff about PPP, however there is another perspective you could take on this pack being fitted to your car - if you come to sell you may limit your market as some buying might not be keen or able to insure the PPP'd spec vehicle.... at least with DIY mods you can rip them off and sell the car as stock.

RE: insurance, don't say that the exhaust is performance improving - just say its makes it sound better, so not to impact your cost so much.

Frank

dexter

Frank, some more food for thought there mate, and you may be right about the PPP being a disadvantage when I come to sell. Again, I never thought about it like that, and another thing to consider along that line is that if I mod only, then I can remove the bits when it`s time to sell, return it to standard, then sell the bits on again. My fcukin` head`s hurting now.

Mine`s a brand new one (it has been run-in) BTW.

patkin

Frank when I spoke to Scoobyworld they said backbox max 7 bhp increase and panel filter may take it to 10 ??

fastfrank

Yes, that is the kind of power increases to expect. The thing is you don't know how much your car is already give out - maybe 235 for example.

Do a search on scoobnet, you'll find loads of example of people with WRX03's,04's who have achieved suprising results with simple mods.

When car's come from the factory and have been run-in they do tend to give out slightly higher horsepowers (well, at least it seems to be the case with these ones).
My friend has a completely stock 04 Sti and had his on the RR at the same time as mine - the results were impressive. It should be 265bhp as standard but was putting out 278bhp and yes, with NO mods.


and Dexter, do the deed mate, don't waste anymore of your life contemplating what to do.

Frank

Daz34

IMHO it doesn't really matter what the dealer says about the warranty being safe as it is International Motors who decide if a failure is covered and they are notoriously fussy about any warranty claim.

fastfrank

fair comment but if your dealer is on your side and you are able to revert your car back to standard in the event of a failure of some sort IM won't be able to argue (a bit of a song and dance approach i know).