What if ?

The first 1,000 miles was almost text book 4000RPM max, the last 100 miles before the oil change I had taken it to 4500 a few times. Then I spent 200 miles at 5000RPM, another 200 miles at 5500RPM and now I have over 1,400 miles on the car and taking it to 6000RPM in the first 3 gears at every opportunity it is starting to loosen up and show what it is made of. Still giving it a mix of engine speeds and after a few slip road dashes clipping 6000RPM I am letting it cool down for a few miles in 6th at 70MPH then exiting to re-join at the next slip road. It does seem to be be helping it loosen and even after 100 miles of the above continuous treatment it feels different. After another 100 miles and I will lift the limiter to 6300RPM for 200 Miles and keep building it that way. This sytem has worked for all my previous cars from new and always given me a quick example each time.

Roll on 10,000 miles and a fully loosened up engine !!

How have you run your car in and what results have you got ?

rizzy

i assumed from all them articles,it was in the cars best intrest to thrash it from the start?

but every one has a mixed opinion on that.
i personally just stick with the science and the facts.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Sounds fine to me!
There are theories about the best way to run-in depending if you want a quicker engine or one that will last longer. I don't see a problem in your regime.
JohnD

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Where do you get the notion that he was thrashing it from the start?
JohnD

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Haven't had the chance to break a new car in yet...mixed blessing I guess! Your method sounded perfectly sensible to me! It's certainly what I'd do: Under 4k for the first 1k miles, don't drive at constant rpm etc....

I must say I do find it strange that the for the first 1k you must stick below 4500 Rpm and then even only after one mile after the 1k service you can gun it! I'm not an engineer, but that doesn't sound like good mechanical sympathy to me :-) Personally, I think increasing the rev limit in steps -as you're doing- is the most sensible approach. Personally I'd also want fully synth oil in it before extending it too, rather than the semi synth that the dealers use.

I wish you a very happy and trouble free future with your car!

NS04

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Too early for fully synthetic. Semi-syn is fine - change to full syn. at the 1st year service, but do a mid service with semi-syn until then.
JohnD

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Sorry John, I forgot to say that I only do low mileage so I very probably wouldn't have got to kind of miles where I'd feel comfortable going right to the redline on any regular basis by the first 6 month service.

Just out of curiosity -i've wondered about this for some time- can you direct me to any articles about the reasons behind running an engine on semi synth for the first year. It'll save me troubling you for an explanation.

Regards,

compshack

The first 1000 miles are difficult, with coming up to 4000rpm the boost is just coming on song and you can feel the shove and if your not careful it will rise to 5000rpm in a blink of an eye. I spoke to the dealer today and they recommended not to run it any higher than 4500 to 5000 with the viscosity of the oil that is in when the car is new.

Getting the PPP fitted at 1K service so that will make a big differance in performance. The engine does feel tight and stangled but the PPP should sort that out.

Handling is sublime, cornering takes on a whole new meaning. Being able to throw the car so fast into a corner and it just goes round with out a problem.

I have done 700 miles since last Thursday and only cheated by going on the motorway a few times so most are done on A and B roads. Must have spent a £200.00 in Optimax but can't wait for the service and PPP

m66beg

What i did was take my wifes car to santa pod......lol

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

There are a number of articles on oil usage and suitability but I can't for the life of me remember any specific one! Millers for example recommend running-in oil for the initial break-in before going on to semi-synthetic.( A number of oil manufacturers produce running-in oils) The use of genuine full synthetic too early will not allow the rings to bed in correctly with subsequent less than perfect compression seal and possible increase in oil useage.
I'm not sure what the original fill oil is in the Subaru but it is certainly thin! I would guess at best a 5/30 but this is fine of course for the initial running-in process.
It's worth doing an internet search on oil related subjects - there's a lot out there!
JohnD

compshack

On the Evo's they use Semi until 4500 and then Full synthetic from then on.

What if ?

Oh Poo ! that's me buggered then. I paid an extra £14 at the 1k service to go Fully Synth. So after all my careful driving and calculated running in, it was a waste of time anyway and I was planning another oil change at 5k too. Lets hope I'm one of the lucky ones that gets away with it, I hate it when a car uses oil !!

Oh yes, forgot to say, PPP being fitted next week, so I will have about 1,600 miles on it then and will be setting the limiter set to 6500RPM so should be able to exploit it almost fully then at 2000miles it will be "hell for leather" as I will have completed my running in (allbeit with fully synth oil). Hope I managed a nice bit of polishing in the 1st 1000 miles and got away with it though. Dealer didn't say it was not a good idea, infact thought it was worth the extra £14. That's dealers for you I suppose.

Anyone else got any positive news about changing to Fully Synth at 1000mile service ? I could do with cheering up !!!

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

There are no real hard and fast rules about this, so I wouldn't worry!
JohnD

What if ?

Cheers mate, I was feeling a bit down after reading that. I'm glad that is it not a proven issue, just a well debated one.

Not like the "shall I thrash it or run it in" debate that makes me cringe and wince everythime I read it !

speedking

My 205GTi was 10 years old and 135000 miles when sold. Still in very good condition.

My personal running in regime is:

<1000 miles <4000rpm
<2000 miles <5000rpm
<3000 miles <6000rpm
<4000 miles <7000rpm

with occasional blips allowed. Using a range of gears and speeds.

I believe that this will show benefits in later life. If you only aim to keep the car for 3 years then the above can be ignored

Just because manufacturer's say that running in is not necessary these days, doesn't mean that this is the best approach for the private motorist.

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...hlight=running

hades

Subaru still say you should run the car in.

The reason for the 1000 mile cut off is changing the oil at 1000 miles, from the thin "running in" stuff to the "normal" oil. If you changed the oil at 995 miles, that's where the cut-off would be. Bearing in mind that you potentially get small metal particles in the oil whilst running in, changing the oil is at least as important a part of the process as what revs you use IMHO.

dazc

I always would run a new car in. OK it may still work at 6000rpm, but you are putting high stresses on parts that are not properly mated to each other. (Ie Big or little end bearings for instance).

You wouldn't (and shouldnt) stamp on new brakes without gently bedding them in first, as the surfaces need to wear to each other properly to create an even pressure. Same principle.

Think of this, in a normal family car there is 3 tons of pressure forcing each piston down. Probably more in an Impreza. Thats a lot for (possible high spots on) the bearings to take.

Once it has run in then thrash it. It will still loosen up then.

Agreed, manufacturing tolerances have increased accuracy these days (from your dads old motor) lessening the need to run in, but thrashing from new? Not for me I'm afraid.

Just my opinion. Daz

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, I understand that and- of course- the right oil is critical, especially if you're going to give the car a workout, but I would have though that this would have little impact on the extent to which the mechanical parts would have "bedded in" by. Surely, the progressive increase in rev limit over the next few thousand, miles is preferable to gunning it immediately after the first oil change?

Regards,

NS04

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

What if..?

The fact that a good fully sythetic oil virtually prevents any wear also prevents any futhur bedding in/loosening up (Or a least seriously reducing it). Given that scoobs only really start to give their best once ~5000 miles are on the clock (and quite often
improve furtur over the next 5k) putting fully sythetic in too early can leave your engine tight.

You could got back to semi on the next service I suppose..?

Jason

What if ?

Cheers for that Jason.
Some very interesting comments so far on this thread. I would say though, that I have heard before that you should not change between the two types as it can cause clogging and block oilways, so I would be a tad concerned about a dealership doing the usual "Quick! oil change and maybe leaving a little more oil in than they should before changing oil type. I understand you comments on slower bedding in and lossening up, but shouldn't they have said this to me when I asked about going fully Synth at 1000miles ? you really can't trust them can you ?

Would I be ok to keep building the revs and stay fully synth ? as least that way I know I am running with good lubrication.

dazc

I would say so.
Dealers don't really care either way TBH.

What if ?

Anyone know if I will do any damage leaving the Fully Synth oil in (It was put in at almost exactly 1000 miles and I am now at 1500miles and it has loosened up a little but it still feels tight) ?

When could I expect maximum power now that I am on Fully Synth?

Should I hold back on building the revs anymore (currently hitting about 6300 max, when the engine is warm) ?

When would I be able to safely take the revs any higher ?

Will the engine still run in properly and polish the surfaces as well ?

All these questions eh ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Many would argue that Scoobies don't really loosen up fully till they get about 5k on them mate, so I wouldn't worry about that. Maybe you should speak to David at API engines about what to do regarding the oil! He's the expert on engines- he rebuilds them!

Best,

NS04

What if ?

Do you have a number for API Engines ?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

The number is on his website mate

www.apiengines.com

Regards,

NS04

Engineer@Uni

I feel i should also add a few pointers on this very technical chapter.

1) There is no need to change the manufacturer's choice in semi-synthetic oil on a new car. You can be absolutely certain that it is more than sufficient and perfectly adequate at what it does. While there are benefits to swapping to full-synth oil on a high-demand vehicle, a new car does not fall under this category and as such should be left with the semi. As correctly noted, it is more appropriate for running-in.

2) There is neither a rule nor any point to having such strict guidelines on running in. Having a 500rpm difference for 1k miles in running speed seems to me to be more of a fun game for over-enthusiastic drivers than anything to do even remotely with running-in. Firstly, engine time should not be measured in distance, as this wrongly assumes that there is a set amount of revs and running time per distance traveled. Indeed, many people who want to run their car in fast think that higher speeds accelerate this process due to more miles amassed. Please lets not be so obsessive with 500rpm differences for a few k miles. I can assure you the frictional difference from a casting imperfection in the block, or from the tolerance fit in the pistons is way way more innacurate than any difference such discrimination will offer.

3) I'd also like to point out that during running-in it would be a wise idea to avoid zero-throttle in-gear. Engine breaking requires little or no fuel being injected into the cylinders. When running-in, increased friction results in higher temperatures. Lots of engine-breaking will cause the problem to increase and may cause strain that will lead to excessive temperatures during this delicate stage. Its also a wonderful opportuninty to run-in your breaks.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Perhaps you need to explain your theory behind this a little more? Consider:
With the throttle shut the ECU cuts the fuel, the resulting lack of combustion will remove this source of generated heat from the equation. The oil is being pumped at the same rate so there is no increase in friction there! so where is this extra friction coming from? If you descend a long hill on closed throttle just watch the temperature gauge go down! The only downside here is possibly the reversal of torque as the car drives the engine and forces change direction in bearings, piston thrust face etc? but with the uninterrupted supply of lubrication in correct clearance bearings this should be of little consequence?
JohnD

Scooby-Monster

Facinating tread as I too have just completed my 1000mile service at the dealers.

Not only have they filled her up with fully synth oil but it is also 0w 40 mobil1 which although a good oil is not reccommended for Scoobs apparently having read a few threads on the subject.

It's their choice and I have a 3 yr warranty so lets see what happens.

Opinions on the obove would be appreciated though.

Cheers,

Dan

buzzard

theres millions of opinions re engine runnning-in, but i have to say that in my view point 3) could be up for healthy debate depending how it is interpreted. i read point 3) as no engine braking should be allowed during the running-in period but i would disagree in part. i agree "continuous" engine braking is not good but in my view "occassional" engine braking is essential to draw down and suck the bores of low frictional area deposits and allow for better eventual ring/bore seal and better compression in the long run.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

The latest generation Subarus, like most modern engines, accept the use of thinner oils. My 03 STi handbook recommends 5/30 as the "preferred" grade, however the handbook of my previous 99my warned against prolonged high speed operation with this grade! Indeed, at the time, Subaru sent a service bulletin to dealers warning against the use of "thin" oils ie Mobil 1 0/40 and arranged with Mobil to supply a 5/40 grade for those wishing to use a synthetic oil. It may be the case that 0/40 is now approved although personally I would not go "thinner" than a 5/40, and then only with a good fully synthetic.
You'll probably have no problems at all but just to comment on your statement about the warranty - would you honestly be happy with a dealer re-built engine????
JohnD