New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi all,

Just browsing through Scooby Mania and saw that SN got a mention. However, it's not a good one

http://www.scoobymania.co.uk/news_article.asp?id=18

Thought the mods would like to know. I'm sure there is another side to this story and in the interests of fairness, it's only right that they be given a chance to respond.

All the best,

NS04

Ray_li

Alot of the unsung heros of the old SN dont post as much and have moved on.
Iv found that the BBS is mainly full of new people and the old guys that still drive scoobies dont post here much but else where

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Why is this exactly, I'm genuinely interested in peoples views. I'm a relative newbie, so haven't really noticed.

Doesn't seem to have affected the muppet show tho! Some of the post counts in there are unreal!

Ray_li

Not my place to say and the walls have ears.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Oooo the plot thickens! You could send me a PM speculating! You're entitled to your opinion afteral!

Ray_li

I wonder if any of the mods will tell us how much advertisement and membership generates every year?

BTW - been using SN for years and Im happy with the tech info I get here

ex-webby

Before any chinese whispers start Mike's grievance is exactly as he states on his site (thanks Mike for giving Scoobynet exposure on the main page of your website.... jolly decent of you ), nothing more, nothing less.

As regards to some of the "original" posters not frequenting Scoobynet no more.... people's interests change, social circles change and life in general changes. People move on to other scenes etc etc. Nothing sinister in that either, i'm sorry to say.

If people want to spend their time listening to gossip and chit chat, than that is entirely up to them. But I refuse to let myself or any other representative of Scoobynet get drawn in to a public airing of "dirty washing".

This community has gone from strength to strength. Of course things change and unfortunately or fortunately Scoobynet will never be as it once was. I like to think everything has happened has happened with positive outcomes, and I am very proud to be part of something that so many treat as an extension of their social circle.

Hats off to everyone (past and present) that has contributed in to making Scoobynet what it is today!

Regards,
Shaun.

billythekid

I joined up when I got a WRX but dut to poor treatment by Subaru that got sold off and I now have another car but I still visit SN on an almost daily basis, dont post that much now but still browse the threads.

Its not easy to run a forum (I also run a forum) and hats off to ya guys for doing such a good job!

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

I've been on here 4 years now and have no complaints, (only when I cannot get on)
Cheers
Colin

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Shawn.

I must say I'm a little perplexed by the "not what it used to be attitude" Admitedly I've only been on here less than a year, but I've always found it very useful.

All the best,

NS04

ex-webby

NS04,
What I meant was that due to the natural way the community has evolved, unfortunately characteristics of the site have changed to cope with the sheer size of the the community itself and the demographic that it attracts. Of course, Scoobynet is still a Subaru based community, but due to this evolution Scoobynet now covers other areas of interest, which has come about at the request of what the community has wanted.

I hope this helps to explain my comment further.

Many thanks.
Shaun.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Sounds to me like a community has aked for something: extra forums etc... and then certain members have decided that -due to the extra noise to signal ratio that this attracts- to cut and run.

The internet has always been about taking what you want from it. If you don't want to hear about non Subaru related stuff, don't leave the general and technical forums- it's as simple as that. If there are posters who get on your nerves, ignore them.

Changes brought about owning to the expansion of the community are a necessary evil. It's not cheap to run a large website and it would be unfair to expect the mods to absorb the costs themselves.... some of them have Scoobies to run!!

Just my 2 cents.

Keep up the good work Shaun!

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Funny, I find myself agreeing with Tuckshop I'm sure there's far more to it and despite protestations to the contrary about impartiality, I personally feel uncomfortable with the association between Scoobynet and Scoobysport, particularly with the occaisional instance of Simon posting under the 'Webmaster' username...no I'm not going to trawl through pages of crap to support this, it happened, ok

ex-webby

TimW,

You are right it has happened..... but Simon is simple and it has been done purely by mistake. You wouldnt believe the amount of times his phone has rang, with me on the other end giving him an ear bending.

I must say though, that ScoobySport follow the same rules and policy that any other advertiser does on Scoobynet. I will not allow Scoobynet to be compromised by showing any special favourtism or allowance amongst any of our Supporters, regardless of origin.

Regards,
Shaun.

OllieC

Originally, this was a community where folks could come together, swap opinions and advice, and learn from the well-informed. Now, many of the old timers have gone and this is a sterile, dull place where mainly newbies post, and only a patient few of the old timers bother to provide some fact amongst the ill-informed opinions that abound.

This is because of the change in direction from being a helpful, not-for profit community, to a place where the commercial interests of Simon and Shaun are put first (having to keep advertisers happy, incredibly heavy-handed censorship etc.). I hope you're enjoying the money guys because you've trashed the place...

ex-webby

OllieC,
Living in yesteryear is all well and good, until reality bites back.

Unfortunately it is all to easy to make comment concerning the workings of something that people do not quite grasp, let alone comprehending the logistics of developing a medium the sheer size of Scoobynet.

Realistically I dont expect people to understand or take on the board the time and costs involved in running something that a small majority take as "just" a BBS. The cold reality is that this is not "just" a BBS, and does take a lot of peoples time and at times personal expense to ensure it continues.

My biggest joy comes out of being part of Scoobynet and it's community. Thankfully, this pride and good feeling compensates for any negatives that rarely rise.

Regards,
Shaun.

terryb

Bit harsh there Ollie...

I maybe a relative newbie myself having only been a scooby owner for 18 months, but in that time I have received a lot of useful info from SN and other forums - SIDC, P1WOC, etc, etc.

Also as a Regional Organiser for SIDC, I could not have generated the interest in meets and events that I have without SN. Just look at the size of the list for the Southern Big One - 240+ at the moment. Also the Stelvio Tour attracts the most interest from here.

And to top it all I bought my P1 after seeing the ad in the For Sale section on here - and via this forum I got my car featured in EVO magazine

You get out of SN what you want. I for one never look in the muppets section (not for me, but I don't complain that it's there) - it's an on-line community that has to cater for all

This site is not all about technical modifications, etc.

Well done Scoobynet and keep up the good work - you'll never please everyone after all as there will always be miserable gits out there that are never satisfied

Cheers

Terry

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

So does this mean that Simon no longer has full admin rights or access to the Webmaster account anymore? If he does still have access, doesn't that smack a bit of a conflict of interest?

blueone

Oh to return to the days of about 2000 members. Its not going to happen. As the membership increases so does the responsibilitys of running and maintaining this site. I dare say that Mike Tuckwood has benefitted as well from the explosion of the Scooby owners modding their cars. IIRC Mike use to operate from home untill he was able to justify having his own dedicated business premisses. Not having a pop at Mike here, just pointing out that it is daft to suggest that Snet and its webmasters is the only benefitees of the explosion of the impreza scene. Quite a few people have gained monetry gain from the exploitation of this resource. Nothing wrong with that as long as people know the reasons for support being given. Paying advertising fees does no way mean that only you can exclusively benefitt from the site, as I only to well know! A message to Mike, as long as you continue to give your customers what they want then regardless of how the *rules have changed* on Snet, they will come back for more of the same good service you no doubt give them.

ex-webby

Hi All

Simon here..

Two main things I'd like to comment on. 1) The "old timers" not appearing to be around anymore. 2) Tuckshop - briefly.

It is a fact that many of the people who used to frequent this site, now appear to have moved on.
- Show me a site where this is not the case after 5 years.
- These people were right in the middle of specific situations at the time which made them "famous" (maybe they were building the fastest 22B in the country, maybe they were setting a world record , maybe they were compulsive liars which made them look more special than they were?, maybe they'd just bought an RS200, maybe they were the quickest round "the ring" when "the ring" was the new big thing, etc, etc), and those situations have now passed.
- They appeared to be more "famous" at that time than the current people who are equal in importance, simply because there were less people involved in the scene.
- Your subaru is not as "cult" or unusual as it was back then. There are far more people owning and enjoying the impreza.
- You were looking for specific information in those days, and the subject itself was new and exciting. Now these things are old hat, and dull, and you get tired of people asking the same questions - like you did once. There are plenty of people on here now that you would have considered heros a few years ago.. but the clever things they have to say don't appear to be clever to you anymore, as you've already heard them.

This all means that YOU are only going to be here for the long haul if you are into general community spirited discussion / friendly banter.

As shaun said. Things move on. In the main, scoobynet is a very friendly and community spirited place to be right now. This has not always been the case - as many of us will remember - but I believe strongly that one of the main reasons for this, is the fact that we no longer spend time listening about the vocal minority intent on spoiling it for the majority. We spend our time looking after the majority / community.

2) Tuckshop
I am convinced that most people will find the fact he's taken up valuable space on his main commercial page to advertise the fact that he won't contribute to scoobynet, now he is not allowed to profit from it against the rules, rather distasteful.

The members who are still receiving email and PM responses from him when they've posted about products he sells or competes with, probably find it strange and a little "underhand" that he still seeks to profit from scoobynet's community even after his strong words of criticism.

For these reasons I have not commented so far on his strange outburst. Many will know the true chain of events, and many more will be able to read between the lines.

All the best

Simon

budgie55

well I'm a scooby n00bie on here and would like to say I'm loving it... I've read lots, learned lots and had a few laughs along the way (pslewis) sorry Pete you do make me smile though :P

Whats it cost me .... zilch , squat, nothing... do I appreciate it hell yes!

Thanks to all who contribute to Sccobynet without you I would be a lot worse off knowledge wise and where would I go when I fancy a giggle if there was no muppets forum?

Not even gone on any meet ups yet, which me and the wife plan on doing at some point... dunno what to expect though... whats the North west meets like ? /me goes to search

Allan

edit:- damn thats my second corner to date

Redkop

I am absolutely appalled that you have chosen to make this personal Simon. It's not what I would expect from a Webmaster to ridicule someone so flagrantly, when in the past he has helped SN.

I remember quite clearly clearly an instance when I was a Mod, carrying out orders from you to have a go at Mike, when in fact you had cocked up remembering you gave him permission to post something.

You, I feel have just shown users your 'true colours' and what to expect if they cross you.

A sad day indeed.

p1doc

scoobynet has increased as obviously subarus became more popular and what started as a pure enthusiasists website had to evolve into a more business oreintated venture as there is only so much you can do for nothing.
i think scoobynet is spot on and is a credit to all of the people involved over the years but there are always people who do not share this opinion
martin

ex-webby

LOL

Thanks Lynne. I am sure Simon is always pleased to take advice from you (knowing your track record) on taking things personally, and especially pleased to hear that he's shown his true colours in your post which releases information which was considered confidential, regardless of how irrelevant it is.

I'll ask you once, to please leave this thread alone unless you have anything positive / constructive to say.

p1doc.. and in fact, the majority of people on this thread.

It is a credit to you all, and to the general spirit of this community currently that the majority now feel more able to stand up to this minority element and speak positively about the good sides of scoobynet.

Regards,
Shaun.

Redkop

I have plenty of positive / constructive things I could say. At least I am honest and don't apply double standards, but out of courtesy & respect to other users, I will refrain from contributing more to this thread.

BTW I signed nothing to bind me to confidentiality.

Chris

From my personal experience, I contacted Scoobynet a last year with a view to taking out an advert for a month to try the water. I was told by shaun that it would cost £450 for 3 months.
I replied that I would rather test the water a little to see if it worked or was cost effective, but the rather terse reply came that it was 3 months (payable in advance) or nothing.
I replied again saying that there was no way I could risk £450, but would certainly be prepared to risk maybe £150 for a month. The reply came, but it was as if he hadn't bothered to read the message, telling me it was 3 months or nothing.

Does that sound like a friendly community-based organisation to you?

I was a little offended by this, not just because of the tone of the message, but because I also had supported SN in the early days, by giving SDB 10 VHS copies of Scoobytrax to sell, on the basis of SALE OR RETURN. A couple were sold, and paid for, but he doesn't seem to be selling them anymore, and as far as I understand it, SALE OR RETURN means if you don't sell them you RETURN them.

I consider this a big black mark against SDB and Scoobynet in my opinion.

Regarding the original point, if someone's offering advice, I think it's quite sensible for them to quote their sources or expertise, but it seems that if you're a potential advertiser, but not a paying advertiser, then your advice or expertise isn't really all that welcome...

As for the newbies that can't see what the fuss is all about, it's a shame you weren't about in 98-2000 when Scoobys were owned pretty exclusively by professional types and it had an intelligent and friendly atmosphere, rather than (with respect to some) the somewhat Chavvie style of posting and literacy that you can experience nowadays... :-(

Bubba po

Hmmm. Have you asked for the videos to be returned, before making this public accusation? It's possible for people to forget things, you know.

blueone

There probably in the same store cupboard as the scoobynews VCD's

ex-webby

Chris

(Simon here)

Firstly. I am absolutely sure that I returned those videos. To the point that I can specifically remember discussing it with you are asking for them to be sent. But this is the absolute first I have heard about the fact that you don't think you have received them.

If you honestly haven't received them, and I don't have them anymore, I will of course send you a cheque for the difference immediately with my utmost apologies. You only had to mention this to me.

Regarding the £450 for 3 months or nothing comment.

Firstly, reporting that we said this in that tone is pretty harsh, and if you really did receive a pm in that tone, I'd be very interested to see it.

Secondly, unfortunately, advertising on scoobynet is expensive. The reason for this is the fact that it is incredibly powerful. This is why countless companies have made themselves successful mainly (and in some cases entirely) through this medium.

This does not mean that everyone can afford it. And if you cannot risk that ammount of money, then you can't. I completely understand that.

If you went to your local Porsche dealer and said "look.. I tell you what, I'll buy that 911 but I can only afford half the cost." do you think they'd say "oh ok then, it's yours".

If you can't afford the porsche, buy a cheaper car.

ScoobyNet advertising is incredibly high exposure. This is the reason it is expensive.

For your information, there are now some new forms of advertising on scoobynet which are much less expensive. You may wish to consider these. They are of course, not as powerful, but may be more suited to your business.

Again, on the Videos. Please contact me. If you honestly haven't received them (god knows who did if that's the case) all you need to do is tell me and tell me how much I owe you. I've spent the last 3 years thinking that was all done and dusted.

All the best

Simon

MarkO

I know the full chain of events, and frankly whilst I agreed with the initial stance that Simon took in asking Tuckshop to either pay for ads or stop talking about his products, I have to say I thought the demand for Mike to remove his business URL from his profile was bang out of order. Plenty of people on SN (including myself) have links to their own sites in their profile, and yet Mike was banned from using his for no discernable reason I can fathom.

Fact is, Scoobysport has always had an unfair advantage over other companies on SN (both when Pete C was in the frame and since). Shaun and Simon can deny it, but most of the old-school SNers like me (and a fair few of the newer members) all know what the score was - mainly because we were around when SN consisted of just 50-60 people and when it wasn't charging people to post in particular forums etc. In other words, when Scoobynet was an enthusiasts forum and not a business concern. Mike was one of the 'old-schoolers' and contributed hugely to both the growth of the impreza community as well as the growth (popular and commercial) of Scoobynet itself. Therefore, it's not surprising that a fair few of us totally understand and support his point-of-view.

I don't find Mike's statement distasteful - I think it's something that's perfectly justified given the way he's been forced to withdraw from posting on SN despite still being a 'major player' in terms of products and knowledge. He was banned from showing his company URL in his personal profile, but of course had he continued to post giving advice and information, he'd have undoubtedly been slated for being biased, having a conflict of interests, and not clearly stating that he was a supplier.

We all know how bad backlashes against suppliers can be (particularly on SN). Anyone remember Power Engineering and Anders? Or even Greg from BPM? I think Mike's just stating his case in response to being backed into a corner by the owners of SN, and I can't blame him for doing that.