Col

Was pulled over recently and was told my exhaust was too loud,cops informed me it is illegal to have an exhaust louder than standard!
They said i could have up to 82 decibels as that is how loud a standard sti scooby is,they then set up a decibel meter and at tickover it was 83 and at 4000rpm it was hitting 100 decibels!
They issued me with a ticket for a defective exhaust and a fine for £30,since recieving the ticket i have done some research and can find no law stating how loud your car can be.My car`has passed 2 mot's with this defective exhaust fitted with no probs,its just your normal scooby de-cat job with magnex back box,not deafening loud and i was driving well below the speed limit at the time i was stopped.
I have written to the police but have had no reply as yet.
Can anybody help me on this?

Colin.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

From your dB readings you have no real arguement against their decision in terms of being noisy! You calmly stated that it is a de-cat system, so as you are technically illegal anyway, you probably got away lightly! Having said that, as noise meters can be affected by ambient noise level and also need frequent calibration, you could challenge the fine by demanding to see the certificate of calibration and confirm the distance and angle that the reading was taken - this is critical to the accuracy of the reading.
New cars must comply with strict sound emission regs. those particular regs do not apply once the car is purchased, although certain noise emission limits are still applicable (not sure of the figures unfortunately) eg PPP is louder than standard, but is approved!
JohnD

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

A quick Google reveals:

Regulation 54 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
provides for the fitting and use of an exhaust system , including a silencer , to all vehicles propelled by an internal combustion engine.

(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not after the date of manufacture be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

And from the MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/6-3.htm (http://www.ukmot.com/manual/6-3.htm)

reason for rejection.
"b. a silencer in such a condition, or of such a type, that the noise
emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a silencer in average condition

johnfelstead

what that means andy is the exhaust cant be modified once it leaves the exhaust manufacturers, so for example you cant chop up a magnex and remove the baffles. It doesnt mean you cant have an aftermarket exhaust.

The MOT isnt the same thing as the legal requirements for a device on the road, its a subjective test based on opinion, if they want to fine you they must have a specific level set under legislation.

This has been covered in the past, the noise limit is much higher than 82 db(A) to be legal on the UK road, you do not have to comply with the stock noise levels.

There is too much of this handing out of fixed penalties these days, its getting beyond a joke, i would fight it after finding the correct legislation as they are not correct in saying you have to comply with the limits of a standard spec car. If that were the case all WR1's would be illegal, which they are not.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

You may well be right - although the above is the only regulation I've seen on the subject. If anyone can clarify the limits that apply to cars with aftermarket exhausts (eg. pattern parts) then I'm sure that would be beneficial to many of us.

TonyFlow

Agreed - although with a Nur Spec R and E/L manifolds, I don't think I stand any chance!

I believe that only DOT bods are trained (and are allowed to issue defects) - i.e. the police are not trained in the use of the dB meter - as stated, get calibration certs, and evidence of how test was taken out and fight it all the way!

johnfelstead

well here is the Type Aproval noise test documented procedures. In order to state your vehicle is not to the same standard as the system that is type aproved they have to follow the same procedures at the Type Aproval tests, which they cant using a roadside noise meter. http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sg...1992&nu_doc=97

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

This seems to be getting more common as we speak..!

What would help is if we knew the correct proceedure for measuring, ie distance, angle and rpm. Therefore, should we get stopped, we would at least know if it's carried out correctly (regardless of the accuracy of the meter). As stated how many fiveO now the correct method..?

Jason (reasonably quiet Ninja BB)

pslewis

The public have a right to a quiet place to live ....... basically, these roybacers have it coming ...............................

Pete

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

I think you answeredmy question with your link before I posted John.

I say think because I gave up after page 4 (headache..!), can someone summarise the link for me (lazy barsteward I am).

Jason

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Your a one to talk with you noisy magnum..!

pslewis

The Magnum is a GUN you muppet!

Pete

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Sorry everyone, I couldn't help myself. I've probably ruined a decent post now. I'll go and hang my head in shame for baiting him..!

johnfelstead

in sumary, the test has to be done under controlled environments, there must be no interferance from atmospheric conditions such as wind or rain, the test area has to be in a defined format in terms of space with no other building and noise generating devices nearby, the noise meter has to be a set distance from the vehicle and the vehicle must be being driven at 50Km/hr at 90% throttle.

A static test isnt adequate to determine compliance.

cw42

iTrader: (1)

john, you've got too much time on your hands
Do you think mine would pass?

Lemmy

So how do you drive at 50 kph (~30 mph) at 90% throttle in a Scoob?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

6th gear? Very steep hill indeed?

Lemmy

I don't think the engine would like that much!

From John's post it would appear also that the microphone would have to be fixed to the car and protected so as not to be affected by wind noise from travelling at 50 kph. LOL

johnfelstead

no, it should have read at least 90% throttle. The sound meter has to be located a set distance from the lane where the car drives through.

This test procedure is why the Impreza has a function in the ECU mapping where if you hold a steady state rpm for a few seconds, then give it full throttle the engine only produces half boost until you back off and then reaply the power. Without this the car wouldnt pass noise test limits.

johnfelstead

I know, and no, not even when its switched off and you were pushing it.

cw42

iTrader: (1)

Lol, true m8, true

jjones

the way they screw bikers is that the race cans do nit have a kite mark (or BS mark) on them. no mark = ticket.

skelly

Its a while since I've thrown a rally car around in anger so I can't give you the exact db level.. but something in the dust at the back of the brain says 85db at 5000 rpm was the level we had to have the rally car at for scrutineering.

Some of the scoobynetters that are rallying these days may well be able to give you the acurate figure for today's events. As forest rallies are multi venue we had to be road legal on noise levels.

See if anyone on here has access to RAC Blue book and that should give you the figure, and your grounds to challenge the fine etc.

Hope this is of some help
Skelly

johnfelstead

MSA Blue book has noise limits of 100db(A) at 0.5m distance at exhaust outlet height at 45 degrees to the outlet of the exhaust, 88db(A) at 2m distance at the centre line of the vehicle at 90 degrees to the vehicle with the sound meter 1.2m above the ground and 76db(A) at 8m taken from the side of the vehicle. With the 0.5m test there must be no object within 3m, for the 2m test no object within 10m and for the 8m test nothing with a clear radius distance around the vehicle of 20m. Background noise must be a minimum of 10db(A) lower than the noise limit listed. These are for a stage rally car using public roads taken at 4500rpm.

MikeWood

The basic principle is that all replacement exhausts MUST have an 'E' mark to be used legally on the road, just like bikes. The only difference is that most of the noise nuisance on the road has been historically down to bikes and cars have so far escaped relatively untroubled.

Guess who's silencers are 'E' marked.......??

Mike

DJ WATTS

Maybe this will be of some help:

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19963013_en_7.htm

Thanks.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Mike,

You've raised this point before - but somehow I can't believe that's the whole story.

Non-EU imports can pass an SVA test and be legally registered without an 'E' mark anywhere on them. There's no guarantee that 'E' marked pattern parts even exist. What's the scoop there?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

And following on from DJ's post, there's actually no mention of an approval mark here. The same regs do, however, require tyres to bear one.

Is it perhaps the case, that an 'E' mark is a GUARANTEE that the part complies to the UK Construction & Use Regulations but that it is in fact possible for a part to comply without necessarily bearing the mark? That would be consistent with the SVA situation, where all appropriate parts of the vehicle are tested for conformance whether they bear approval marks or not.

p1doc

tsl,scoobysport,APS,graham goode,roger clark-cannot think of any other good ones
martin

Vipa

You got a Magnum Pete?? Which one (manufacturer, calibre etc?)

Paul