Ian Waller

I have just come off the phone from talking to Richard Grimes, and I cannot believe what is about to happen!

I am a relative newcomer to Scoobies and the SIDC. I consider myself fortunate to have already attended one of Richard's driving courses. Richard is one of the founders of the SIDC and has quite obviously put a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time and effort into the club.

Some of you must live on another planet The club is NOT run by Subaru, it is run by people who have a passion for Subarus. Apparently some of you think that the club should be manned during office hours (who is going to pay for this!!), some of you seem to think that paying by direct debt should be the way to deal with membership. And according to the AGM held recently, some of you (about 90ish out of 1300) believe that the SIDC should become an INTERNET club!

Richard does not agree with this, in the interests of those without computers, and I for one STRONGLY agree with this. The SIDC is not the IWOC!!! Are we saying that going forward you have to own a Subaru AND a computer?

At the AGM it was decided that going forward the SIDC will be run via email, not post, so those without computers will get left behind. Richard is standing by his beliefs that the SIDC was founded for Subaru owners, not just those with computers. And as such he will be resigning from the club at the end of August unless the club continues to cater for ALL owners.

I urge you all to think about this, I am sure that any of you out there who actually know Richard will stand by him. I for one, will NOT continue to be a member of the SIDC if Richard leaves. Obviously, I am a user of the internet but I still believe that the club should not be 100% internet.

Obviously, there was not a substantial turnout to the AGM (long way to travel from Scotland ) Please give your support to Richard in this matter (via POST to the club address) and let him know that the club should continue to service ALL Subaru owners.

Ian
STi II

Ian Cook

Hmmm,

In what way do people live on another planet!!

Subaru Impreza Drivers Club, kinda implies you own one !!

Direct Debit was mentioned as a possible way of dealing with membership fees, but no-one uses DD as its only method of receiving payment!!!

It was suggested that the club have email and be able to send flyers out to internet members, saving the cost of postage, and still sending out flyers to those that wanted them posted. True Grip was also suggested to remain as a printed magazine not on the interent, as non members would then be able to read it FOC.

All this was discussed at the AGM, there was no suggestion the club should be solely Internet, and there is no reason why it should, but to save costs of postage it is a good idea, its a lot of money being taken out of the club, that could be used for more driving courses or events.

Ian
Member no 51

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

B4 I repost my original post, please can someone post the minutes of the AGM - in that way, we should all be able to see the issues at hand.

[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 11 August 2000).]

chuckster

I wasn't at the AGM, but after conversations with Anders, Pete C and Lee I was under the impression that it was proposed that we could adopt an attitude as outlined by Ian Cook above. I can't beleive there is any motion to become purely internet based. Just look at the turnout at SIDC meets, 95% of the people there are not internet regulars!
Confusedly yours,
Charles

CharlieWhiskey

This rather sounds to me as if Grimes is so anti-internet he is trying to stir things up and get people worried about the SIDC becoming Internet only club! If so it is about time he did stand down as that is misrepresenting the AGM decissions.

Pete Croney

I hope my post on 22B.com sets the record straight.

Ian... why did you choose to put your message on the BBS's?

Was it so you could communicate with several thousand people at the touch of a return key?

If you had to print out several thousand envelopes and copy your message several thousand times, then buy several thousand stamps and drive the lot to the post office, would you have bothered?

Mark Coleman

I think somebody needs to get their facts straight!

What is about to happen???

I was there at the AGM and can confirm the facts as Ian stated earlier.

Concerns were raised over the very high cost of postage and stationary, and it was proposed that if a member was in agreement then certain details could be emailed rather than posted. This would be down to the individuals choice and maybe save a few poor bloody trees.

'Apparently some of you think that the club should be manned during office hours'

ONE member ONLY, suggested credit cards as a source of membership payment. This was thrown out by the chairman, Pete Croney because of the office having to be manned in the daytime to accommodate this service!!

'some of you seem to think that paying by direct debit should be the way to deal with membership'

Why not? Standing orders would probably be more appropriate and you don't have to go through expensive bank setups as with DD's. Lots of my subs to magazines are done this way and you don't have to send out yet more expensive post, and we leave another tree standing!!


'And according to the AGM held recently, some of you (about 90ish out of 1300) believe that the SIDC should become an INTERNET club!'

Rubbish, 90ish had internet access and it was agreed that it was impossible to have the club 100% internet based due to some members not on line.

I think you have your facts somewhat **** about face and suggest you get a copy of the AGM sent to you.

We all have the club and especially the founder members interests at heart. We are only trying to save the club money and make it more efficient and if we can do it for 90% of members via email then I'm sure everyone will agree.

NOBODY is trying to shut out non internet members.

Mark Coleman

DocJock

I respect the amount of time and effort put into the SIDC by Richard and Yvette, far more than I would be willing to for sure.

The club is however democratic and if a majority voted for Internet dissemination of information to those requesting it (not compulsory) club officials should defer to the wishes of the members.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it is an opinion not a criticism of any individual(s).

DJ (member#654)

Mike Tuckwood

Yep, I'm with Doc.

I was there and there was no plan to completely stop snail mail service, only to those with computers who <B>wanted</B> to receive info/updates Etc by E Mail, <I>(About 90% of sample audience at the AGM).</I>

I'm sorry if it seems heartless as I know both Dick & Yvette have put an awful lot of time and effort in to the running of the club, we are all greatful ..... But, the club is not Dicks to do with/run at his entire discretion.

If the membership decides for very valid reasons that a change of tac in certain areas would benefit the club then that is what should happen.


If Dick disagrees so strongly with the wishes of the majority then he is correct in standing down as club secretary.

I only hope that the membership will now be directly contacted, (E mail or snail mail) with proposals for the newly vacated posts so that the club membership can vote for the new prospective post holders.

Mike.

Chris

:-)
I like the dubious use of statistics in the first post!

The internet vote at the AGM that _I_ went to was NOT 90 out of 1300 people, it was 90 out of 95 people!
Quite different percentage wise....
:-)

Good effort though!! :-)

Sounds to me as if someones being a bit generous with the facts here....

The FACTS as I saw it were purely that using the sample group present at the AGM, 95% of the club membership were for having an option to receive communication via the internet rather than via post. The non internet users would still continue to recieve communication via post.

I'm afraid that it seems someone is stirring up things, to mask the real facts!

Chris.

Chip

So how many actual fully paid up members are there.

Ian Cook

1300 plus fully paid up members at last count!

Paul Wilson

Just a thought to allay fears of those who elect to recieve info by post. Why not send out postal stuff the day before the emails are sent out? Then everyone will recieve the info on the same day.

Ian Cook

This is confusing with 2 BBS's

Ian Cook

Minutes will be in true grip in the next issue, will not be posted on the net.

APJ

I presume that whatever was agreed at the AGM, it was by majority? Where's the problem then?

As Ian says, communication to members can be enhanced by email, and it reduces cost. To mail a flyer to 500 members at 30p/unit (paper, copying, envelope, postage, labour) is £150. To email it to 500 members is 5p, assuming ISP calls have to be paid.

No contest really.

Andrew

Ian Waller

With regard to the representation of the AGM do, I do not dispute the percentage of people who agreed at the meeting.

BUT do you really feel that the views of 90ish people out of 1300 people is fair representation? How many Scottish members were present?

As for cost savings, I am all in favour However, taking this a little further,how long before the club decides that as a certain percentage of the club members are using email for distribution, it is non longer considered to be cost effective to service those POSTAL members, as the economies of scale have been removed?

Ian.
STi II

Dave Thornton

I couldn't make the AGM but if Dick Grimes was not in agreement with the future direction of the club he surely would have resigned. It is vital that Dick stays involved because his presence will give balance to the committee. That said, the club must be democratic and decisions taken by majority.

It has been said that the AGM should have been combined with a trackday. I think it should be, in future, combined with go-karting or similar - not everybody wants to do a trackday.

chatmistressxx

I went to the AGM and the amount that is being spent on posting is not good when a lot of us have internet it would save the club alot of money and no one is going to miss out because people that r not on the net can have theres posted!! but i think SIDC needs to look to the future the internet is the way to go these days and iam surprised it has not been done already just think more money for track days!!!!

chatmistressxx

Ian Cook

Ian,

Every single paid up member recieved through the post a notice to say where and when the AGM was being held. Yet only 90'ish out of 1300 decided to turn up. I realise there was a track day at Silverstone (an RSOC track day actually) so some of the members were already busy, some live miles away and couldnt make it, there was nothing to stop them writing to the club before the event if they wanted to say something, or they could have appointed a proxy, none of this was done, so i assume some apathy among the members. The committee can only act if the members make it known what they want, and obviously 1200 members had nothing to add!!!

It always seems to be the same faces at these events as well !

There were several members at the AGM that were very outspoken in their views, as they have every right to be, after all its their club as well, but they turned up, voiced their views and seem to have been appeased, or at least have an understanding of whats going on.

GavinP

Maybe a postal ballot could have been used to get a larger potential member base (assuming people return them ) but as the suggestions are additional facilites rather than replacements, I do not see the problem.

Surely it is moving with the times and taking cost savings when available to put the money to better use.

Just my 2p

Thanks

Gavin

Stef

I can't see what all the fuss is about!
Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to give the members the choice of how they receive club information? E-mail for those that have it and postal for those that don't. Simple.

Stef.

muddy

Yep, SIMPLE not complicated but SIMPLE.

By the way why did this thread on 22b get closed so soon.
So the SIDC did not get offended!!!. I think a few people should grow up and act like adults.
Maybe this club will get somewhere!!!
(My personal opinion)

Muddy.

NITO

A classic example of why the SIDC should make more and better use of the Internet.

I received my AGM invite through the post as did everyone else. The invitation was misplaced and I had no info on where the event was held or at what time. So I turn to the information superhighway. Can you believe that under the events section on the SIDC website, there was no info re. the AGM, not even a date???

Whilst I agree that the club should not become 100% internet based, the SIDC really should get with the program and support snail mail with effective use of the internet.Surely use of the internet will just compliment the existing services as opposed to replacing them.

I had heard about the SIDC about two years before I signed up, but never actually joined because I couldn't be bothered to send of an SAE etc. If it was as easy as phoning up and paying by card then I would have joined much sooner!! I wonder how many more there are out there. I personally know quite a few who STILL aren't members!

So yes, it would be nice to have an office manned 24hrs. But as this is somewhat unrealistic due to the costs involved, then perhaps Internet support would be the way forward manned by volunteers who could answer the mails in their own time. Perhaps certain dealers/tuners could be appointed as collectors for SIDC membership fees!

Just my 2p's worth!

Nito

Nick

Just a little note about paying by credit card etc. The office would not have to be manned as the subs could be paid by either faxing a form or by Internet secure server.

Nick #352

Jo Peters

I wasn't able to make the AGM as I was on holiday so like many others I don't know exactly what went on, however, I agree with Stef (and others). The SIDC should be accessible to ALL Scooby owners. I would be more than happy to access the SIDC via. the internet to view True Grip, look at flyers such as the one for Brands Hatch etc. instead of receiving them by post, however, a friend of mine (Dave Brown STI iv) who doesn't have access to the net would lose out if it went solely on the net.

Jo (female owner MY95 WRX)

Ian Cook

Jo, there has never been a proposal for the SIDC to become an Internet only club, and i doubt there ever will, the internet is a useful tool to save an awful lot of money in postage, True Grip we never be put on the internet, as it would allow non members to read it. There is no reason why fliers and other bulletins could not be put on the net, as long as members that requested it recieved them by snail mail as well.

Also the minutes of the AGM will be with the next issue of true Grip, so you will all be informed of what happened and was discussed.

There seems to be some mis-information being thrown about, hope this clears some of it up.

[This message has been edited by Ian Cook (edited 13 August 2000).]

johnfelstead

it would be pretty simple to have a members only section of the SIDC web site to publish true grip on to save even more money.

The RS owners club have a members only section on their web site!

I still dont understand what the fuss is all about, people who want snail mail info will get it, people who want email will get it, so whats the big deal here?????

yours totally confused by all this nonsense.

john

Lee

the reason we closed the thread on 22b was that people read the first post by Ian, didnt bother to read the replies and hence everyone seems to go on a mission ranting how the SIDC should not be an internet club - whereas the truth is that it was never proposed to be an internet club.

The desirable position (I thought) was something like :

* TrueGrip to remain postal.
* Flyers for meets etc to be sent electronically to members who supply email address, and postally to those who don't.
* For the SIDC committee members to be able to receive emails
* Reduced admin due to electronic membership payment

thats all. not earth shattering and 100% common sense.
Si , close this thread will ya

Markus

OK, I've not read the thread fully, so flame way

I quote:
<B>And according to the AGM held recently, some of you (about 90ish out of 1300) believe that the SIDC should become an INTERNET club!</B>

Mr Waller, were you at the AGM??? I was, and I was sitting right next to Mr Berry, who was most vocal about the lack of internet awareness by SIDC, I also stuck my oar in as well.

However, we <B>NEVER</B> said that SIDC should become and internet club, and unless it was decied afterwards it was not stated that the club would be run via email. How the hell do you think that can happen when Mr Girmes does not like to use machines, and hates the internet, and this is not my opinion, it was his, as voiced with his pathectic reponse when someone asked 'what's happening now scoobynet has gone' Mr Girmes reply was 'arrrgghh (arms being erractically waved) what's scoobynet?'

We were making the statement that as it's the 21st century, maybe the club should kick itself up the backside and use the internet. Hey, we're commenting on this on the net, so it can't be all bad.

The whole internet issue was started when Mt Berry raised the issue that a few thousand pounds on postage was quite a lot, regardless of the 1200+ members. His statement of 'it's a subaru club, not a royal mail club' did evoke a laugh. With a simple email you can reach thousands, and I do mean thousands, of people very quickly.
The main point was that those who have email might like the flyers sent to them via email rather than post, it would make it quicker. But then someone said that this would mean that 'an elite core' would get info quicker than others. Yes, and maybe that elite core knows some of the non emailable people and they give them a ring.

I would not mind having flyers, etc, emailed to me, but I would also like a postal copy of TrueGrip, good reading when you;re stuck in traffic.

So, Richard is going to leave if this is not cleared up, what does he mean by that? If we all stick with postal only so he does not have to use email??? that's what it seems like to me. Richard is a great asset to the club and his, and his wifes' work in Club Admin is appreciated. But if he is going to be such a luddite and insist that the club remains 100 percent postal then maybe his leaving might get someone who can handle postal and email to do the admin.

As I've said, post is fine, but why not do post AND email, surely it can't be that difficult?

anyway, I've got me coat (fireproofed n all!) and I'm ready to leave, lest I get kicked out of SIDC for my views.