Neil Smalley

Fair nuff. But let's not get into that should we, should'nt we tell on bad suppliers thing again.

SDB. Could we create a seperate page where people could mark popular dealers,suppliers out of 10 or something. That way we still get the feedback we need but there's no chance of libelous comments. I guess
you could grade them on things like prices, quality of workpersonship, service,knowledge and aftersales etc.

There are a number of ways you can stop people multiple voting for the same company.

What'ja think?

ex-webby

Hiya Neil

There really is no problem with people saying "This is my experience of dealer x", as long as its not "This dealer is a t****r".

I emailed the person who started the thread before deleting it out of courtessy (sp?). But the content was unquestionably unsuitable so there was no choice.

I would hate for this thread to be taken as a request to not post what you think or feel.

Judging by the high quality of posts I think the majority of people are respectful of this anyway.

Best regards

Simon

johnfelstead

I think the idea of some kind of customer satisfaction survey is brilliant.

If there is some way of making an objective question form with marks out of 10 and then this being combined into a database we can access that would be very usefull.

Sounds like an awefull lot of work though, maybe something a bit OTT for our BBS.

I agree with simon, we must keep threads objective, still tell when things go right or wrong but not use personal attacks, just facts. It's a slippery slope to a useless thread when we let our personal emotions take over.

cheers
john

ex-webby

I was INCREDIBLY keen that threads were not deleted or closed on ScoobyNet without extremely good reasons. All of the moderators are of the same thoughts, and we have agreed to uphold this.

This is a forum for us all to communicate in any way we like.

But to safeguard the BBS and it's future for us all we need to ensure that libellous or offensive posts are removed (or even better, never get posted).

There was a thread today which was telling us not to buy a car from company X...

I don't think this is wrong in itself, but the content was almost certainly libellous / slander, so it had to be deleted.

I really hope this will not offend anybody, and promise that random or agressive deleting / closing of threads will never happen on ScoobyNet under current management .

I would be really grateful if everyone could make an effort to ensure this kind of content is not included in any posts.

Kind regards

webmaster

Suresh

Webmaster,

Your tolerant and mature attitude is very much appreciated.

Re: surveys -

ex-webby

Suresh

Thank you. That looks lovely!

How easy is it to set up?

Cheers

Simon

Kev

Hi all ..

From what Ive been told happened while I was away on my summer hols I think it's a good idea that the BBS never goes down down the same road again .. we are all adults and with enough of us going to meets etc word always gets around about dodgy dealers etc without having to use this excellent BBS as a platform and risk loosing it for good .....

For info .. I looked into a web site just for offering details of dealer's by make/area and quality of service by asking punters to vote with a 1-10 scale. However I was advised be a local web site owner/webmaster to take some "free" web type legal advice .... and what an eye opener I quickly decided it just wasn't going to be worth all the hassle (and exspense !) it could cause .... so dropped the idea .... just did'nt fancy facing court action etc ...

K

Suresh

Simon,

Glad u like it.

Our "premierhousekeeping.com" survey took about two hours to prepare and publish. The set up is all menu and template driven. You can even choose your own colours. Easy peasey - especially for an IT guru such as yourself!

Certain features are disabled in the free version. Using your own graphics in the survey form is one of them. Never did look at paying as an option, as students don't like to pay for anything!

Suresh

Gary Foster

Who was the dealer ?
Why would you not like me to know if a dealer is a w****r ?
Is the dealer an advertiser who you do not wish to offend ?
Is this website now being run for the benefit of Subaru owners or Subaru dealers ?

OK, Thats a bit harsh and I'm sure Simon et al would not let this happen I'm making a serious point however, surely you could have moderated the offending post - (ie ***** removed as it was libelous !) or 'suggested' that the poster moderate the comments himself.

Deleting the thread is like cracking an egg with a sledgehammer and sort of goes against the free speach thing.

Just my 2c, I don't pay for this I guess.

(Opinions expressed are not necessarily the opinions of ScoobyNet / ESoft Solutions Ltd, and besides this Gary Fosters opinions are a load of t*ss anyways)

ex-webby

LOL @ Gary

OK...

Firstly, re-read my posts, there is absolutely no problem in letting people know your experiences with a dealer as long as you do it in a legal way.

The dealer was not an advertiser, in-fact I had never heard of them, and if your comment was not a joke, it would genuinely be resented to a degree I could not express.

In answer to your third question..
This site is being run for the benefit of the entire scooby community, that includes any individuals who are interested in scoobies. If it is closed down because someone takes it to court, we will all lose out.

I considered editing the posts on the thread, but decided against it as it is actually CHANGING what someone has written. I would consider this an insult, and wouldn't dream of inflicting that on anybody.

In addition to this, the content was structured in a way which would have made it impossible to edit without completely changing it.

I think that this thread and my messages in it are testiment to how strongly I feel about censorship and how much I hated having to delete it.

Best regards

webmaster

Gary Foster

Hiya Simon

Yes If you didn't guess, I was just playing devils advocate

I'm certainly not having a go at how you handled it, I didn't even see the thread remember - I'm sure the decision was sound.

I'd already realised that the thread must have been way OTT for you to have closed it, and the fact that you posted a thread saying a thread had been removed already proves there's nothing 'underhand' going on.

My point was, and still is this, if you start to censor anything on a 'public forum' you best be careful, it can quite easily be taken the wrong way. And by starting it you could quite easily become the target if ill feeling yourself. (I'm teaching you too suck eggs now - sorry )

Lol

Gary

ex-webby

Thanks Gary..

You are spot on! Posts will ONLY be deleted / closed if there is a VERY VERY strong reason for it.

I'm pleased you feel the same way.

Cheers

Webby

P.S. We moderators would never edit other peoples posts for them... that would be a blatant missuse of power.

[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 09 August 2000).]

PeteC

I think it would be a very sad state of affairs if views on dealers/products/etc were only discussed at meets.

IMHO one of the major pluses about this bbs is the wealth of information that it contains regarding peoples' views on such things as modifications and enhancements.

Much of this information is in the form of opinions rather than hard facts, but there is usually some supporting information backing up each opinion. As an example, I'm thinking of the "which tyres?" type of debate.

The same situation can apply to companies as well - dealers, tuners, etc. If someone has been particularly pleased with the service offered by a company, then obviously they should be able to post it. Equally, though, if service has been bad for whatever reason, then it is to the benefit of others on the board that this is made known.

I was on holiday when the problems that brought Scoobynet down arose, so I'm not exactly sure what went wrong. I would guess though that it boiled down to a lot of hot-headed emotion, and that's what, in my opinion, we need to stamp out.

Providing it's based on fact though, I don't see anything wrong in "naming and shaming" where appropriate.

Pete

LanCat

As PeteC says the bbs is the place for exchanging views. The fact its a public exchange of views means that everyone is in the loop not just those who meet.

However the fine chaps running the board must remove threads if they are libellous or could be seen as being so. It may be opinion and there may be a disclaimer but the risk of losing the bbs because of a rant seems to me to be too high. I think you should ask the poster to moderate/edit any dubious post themselves, if they won't then delete it and don't feel bad about it. They wont have to deal with any repercussions, you may.

The survey idea is good, surely everyone is interested in who's giving good service.

The disadvantage of the 1 to 10 scores is that they can be twisted by someone having an outstandingly good or bad experience. I can vouch for that because of the stunningly low scores I give IBM every month when they ring me up!

I'm no statistical wizard but there's probably a way to weight the scores?

Rog

ex-webby

Great comments...

Hoew about this..

we set up a voting page, as suggested, but we use it to publish a top 10 of companies and nothing else.

I am pretty sure that ANYTHING, no matter how well meant, which slates a company would be legally foolish, but this way we can all see a more positive thing...

"who SHOULD we give out business to", NOT "Who SHOULDN'T we give it to".

Comments?

LanCat

Simple always works the best for me.

Top 10 in various classes...

Dealers
Importers
Tuning
Parts/Enhancements
Insurance
Paintshops
Best cup of coffee while I wait ?

DavidG

I applaud Simon's principled attitude.

Unlike in Real Life, free speech is not the be-all-and-end-all in a BBS. As I have posted in a thread some time ago, if you want to see free speech, go to usenet. Totally unmoderated - total crap . Free speech is not a reason to allow libellous or offensive posts. Free speech was abused in a scandalous way on Scoobynet 1 to damage the reputation of Power Engineering.

It is possible to discuss dealers, and give reports - good or bad - about them, on the BBS without being libellous. I know that Sunilp has written in detail about his bad experiences with one dealer. He just described his experience and let people draw their own conclusions. More formally, the Elise BBS has a section where members can give their views on dealers.

[This message has been edited by DavidG (edited 09 August 2000).]

[This message has been edited by DavidG (edited 09 August 2000).]

APJ

Having read the thread in question, I must agree that it was better for it to be removed. For those who did not see it, the content of the post was not a sharing of recent experience, but was a rather provocative directive to boycott a particular dealer. Whilst the individual concerned may feel this action justified, it is only one persons perception, and as such may not be an accurate picture. A grievance such as "I paid £34k so I expect a valet like Audi do" is a very personal view, and if valeting is a key criterion for satisfaction then £34k would have been better spent on an Audi.

Anyway, ehough of a lecture. It was appropriate to remove the thread.

Andrew

ex-webby

Thanks guys

I have now spoken with the person who started the thread and he is completely happy with the reasons for deleting the thread.

Best regards

Simon

Dave P

The dealer guide is a great idea, expecially if it could be automated.

I for one have switched my servicing from a Kent based dealer to a Sussex one. I was careful to avoid posting for fear of making slanderous comments.

However a basic questionairre to be filled in after each service which averages out marks and gives details of highest / lowest scores would be great.

I am sure dealers are very aware of the existence of Scoobynet and a little competition can only be good for us... the consumer.

Scoobynet, glad to have you back.

Dave