M3 Compact

Hi all, I'd be grateful for some advice.

I'm looking to buy a WRX.

I test drove a new one yesterday and I was disappointed with the engine power above 5.5K revs. The engine pulled very strongly from 3.5K to 5.5K and I was hopeful of it continuing all the way to the red line.

I've not much experience with later model WRXs and wondered if this was correct.

I've heard stories of Suzuki bikes that are not properly 'unleashed' until the first service (via a timing retardation), I don't know if it's true or not but this car felt so strangled above 5.5K that I wondered if something similar may have applied?

It pulled 3.5K to 5.5K better in 4th gear than 5.5K to 7.5K in 3rd, is this correct?

Was I too expectant having driven modified classic shape examples mostly?

Cheap chip to unleash the extra power which was obviously available somehow?

Final question. UK car £18250 + RFL. UK spec' import £16600 + RFL (both blue), which would you buy? (I'll keep it 2 years/40K miles).

Thanks in advance, Simon.

http://www.bmwrallying.com/

M3 Compact

87 views and no opinions.

I'd really be grateful if someone can tell me whether I've expected too much, I've fancied owning a Scooby for ages and now I have the chance I don't want to reject it because I've driven a lemon.

5500 revs and upwards, it really was flat.

Are all the new WRXs like this?

If the one I drove was 'working as intended', can I 'sort' it reasonably cheaply?

Thanks, Simon.

BMWRallying.com

Dockie

Sorry to see that you get no replys but dont be too pissed! The same happens me.......... It appears that the guys who would help are fed up with the same questions every day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iwan

Ok i'll have a stab at this, in my old MY99 turbo the torque all seemed to be from 3500 to 5500 ish rpm, though it would easily rev to the redline there wasn't any point as the torque was much lower down. I was told this was a normal characteristic of the subaru engine.

Then i got my P1 (STI5 engine) and found the power delivery was very different, the torque seems to be more spread out than the MY99 i had. It's weird because it felt slower than the MY99 to start with, it was deceptive because it didn't seem to have the same mound of torque in the middle of the rev range. I believe STI engines are supposed to be like that whereas the normal WRX engines are different.

Try an STI and see how you get on.

Chris Barn

I tested a WRX the other day with 230miles on it.. Having previously owened a classic and one of the first Sti type UK, the WRX felt a better, if a bit slower car, The one I had pulled cleanly all the way to the redline (only once though as it had not been run in).

Ordered WRX SL yesterday with PPP to give a bit more when needed.

Hope this helps...

Chris Barn

"Try an STI and see how you get on."

As I said above I hap an STI and hated every moment of the 6 months I had it.

No power / torque below 4500rm often left embarresed when approaching a roundabout and nipping into a space as it just would not go below the magic 4500rpm.. Above this it was a quick car.

Ordered the WRX because its a better everyday car (in my opionion)

corradoboy

What mileage was on the car, and had it been warmed up properly ? Scooby engines don't free up until over 5k usually, and by 20k they are sweet as a nut but brand new they can feel a bit tight and restricted. I'm not sure about the basic map, but I'm led to believe that the PPP map has in built protection limiting the power until oil temps are suitable. As stated earlier, the torque on a Scoob is between 3 and 5.5k revs, so they do get a bit breathless above 6k. I rarely go above 6k and once you're used to not wringing the cars neck all the time you realise that there's no need to.

I'd go for the UK personally. Does the import price include a Cat1 alarm and locking wheel nuts, if not add another 3-400, and also consider the 1k lower resale value when you chop it in later and the savings are negligable. Also, as you stated, you might want to "chip" the power up a bit and the easiest way to do this and retain the warranty (which needs to be valid at resale again to protect the trade in value) is to add the PPP (1600 quid, new back box, I/C pipe and remap giving 0-62 in 4.8s and 155mph) which no UK dealer is supposed to do to an import (rules state it MUST be fitted in the country of origin).

Personally, if I was thinking of spending 18k+ on a Scoob, I'd look at a low mileage unmolested '03 STi PPP.

Welcome to SNet

scoobie elf

How long will a subaru engine last if it serviced on regular intervals? Are imported cars more expensive when it comes to replacement parts? If you buy an import, are there modifications I will need to make to run the car on normal 95rom fuel?

corradoboy

How long is a piece of string ? If you thrash it, it might blow in a month, or 20 years. Treat it with repect and it might blow in 5 years or 20 As for imports, it depends if they're Jap or EU. EU are identical to UK (probably 'cos we're in the EU ) except a few trivial bits (alarm, seats (used to anyway) locking wheel nuts). JDM cars have some different bits, but not all, and there are plenty of places stocking just about every bit you'll ever need. Jap cars are set up to run on 100RON fuel, and need either a remap for UK 98, or octane booster in every tank.

scoobie elf

If it is a eu import (ie from Alliance Imports), does this need to be remapped or anything to run on 95ron?

I was asking the question about the engine life as I've read various threads with people saying that they have had engine problems at about 60k which does seem very long.

M3 Compact

Thanks for the replies.

I understand about repeat questions being tedious but I couldn't find a search facility.

The car had only covered 30 miles, it was thoroughly warmed and it didn't feel like a 'tightness' issue. This felt like a fuelling/sparking/cam profile issue.

From the replies I think that it was working as intended.

I'm gonna reconsider now. I didn't want to spend £18K but I can't find anything 'proper' around £12K and I won't pay £15K+ for used, when new is not much more.

Can I get a removable chip that would just give me a little more at the top end without upsetting the excellent driveability? I don't want to spoil the car and I don't need another 'racer'.

I found it a little frustrating when so much was promised from 3.5K to 5.5K and then it petered out (although smooth enough all the way to the red line), I just felt that a lot more was hidden away somewhere up in the higher rev range.

I don't want to spend £1600 or change the zorst.

Thanks again, Simon.

BMWRallying.com

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

I would say that the 3.5K - 5.5K band is where the turbo comes in then you go through the peak torque point & then proceed on to the peak power point.After that any further revs are only going to burn more fuel for little more gain in real terms.That's why people set there shift lights to 5.5K - 6.0K as you then need to change up a gear & go through the bands of torque & power all over again.

The car that comes alive over 6K would be the Honda CTR with the V-TEC engine.

My PPP "chip" gives a flat topped torque curve with good torque from just over 3.0K all the way to 5.5K before it drops off.This means it pulls like a train between those revs & then so long as your gear change keeps the engine within that range it pulls like a train to the next gear change.



Mark

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

EcuTEK remap would help get what you want, along with STi panel air filter and maybe exhaust change, although you don't want to change the 'Zorst... plemty of quiet better sounding low as restriction exhausts outthere and all in les than PPP cost ... although warranty may be a problem.

Or ask Bob Rawle what he can do for you ... he has done amazing things with new age cars I read on here in Projects!

Brun

If the car only had 30 miles on it then i seriously suggest you test drive a second hand one with a few k on the clock. At 30 miler will be tightto say the least

corradoboy

With only 30 miles on the clock, the car will still be on running in oil and so shouldn't be going above 4k revs anyway The main reason why NOT to buy an ex-demonstrator As I said, you really need to drive considering the vehicle and it's characteristics. A Civic Vtec should be driven on the redline, but a turbocharged car runs out of boost quickly and thus needs to be moving up a gear long before the limiter. My mate followed me a few days ago and was falling behind on every straight. When we pulled up he asked if I was redlining it to pull away from him, and was surprised when I told him every gearchange was around 5.5-6k, maximising torque in each gear. BHP counts on a standing start, but torque comes into play once rolling. A Skoda Fabia VRs with an AMD chip and some other bits will realise 300lb/ft of torque and is astoundingly quick through the gears in mid range acceleration even though it's a diesel with a 4.5k redline

I believe Ecutek do a switchable map, which can be set to standard (for servicing ), economy (for long runs) or nutter , but it really does need to be combined with exhaust revisions as the standard BB is too restrictive. I'd recommend driving an STi and a PPP'd WRX before making any further conclusions. Standard maps can vary though. A mate had his PPP STi remapped by Richard Bulmer and found the Prodrive map to be overfuelling at 3.5k to give the big kick but running out of fuelling and going off cam by 5.5k Now it pulls like a train from just below 3k all the way to 7k

EU imports don't need remapping.

M3 Compact

Thanks everybody, you've told me excactly what I needed to know.

Most of the few 'classic' models I've driven have been competition cars with an intake restrictor, smaller turbo, better exhaust and a programmable ECU. I know that these motors aren't 'screamers' but I've never noticed such a profound/important mid range before, I'd guessed at a bit of toning down for refinement? (Which has made a very nice package)

It's down to me to decide now, I like wringing the neck out of stuff as much as I'm bothered about going fast, so a Scooby may not be for me.(I use 600 sportsbikes in preferance to 1000s).

Thanks again everyone, I know it's tedious to get the same 'newby' questions repeatedly. I couldn't find a 'search' facility?

Great forum.

Simon.

BMWRallying.com

corradoboy

Each to their own. I find I get a smug satisfaction when I anhialate (sp ?) someone and it didn't even feel like I was trying I would still recommend trying some others before you turn your back though.

M3 Compact

I'm not giving up yet mate and I understand the 'smug satisfaction'. (You can't beat winning without 'trying')

I'll give an 'officially' improved one a go, it's not just extra power I'd like, a slightly wider/higher power band would be nice for me. I don't want to pay the same/extra for a used Sti.

The dealer has an 04 with PPP, I'm going to ask for a drive.(It's £20K with leather etc, so no good for me.)

What chance some dealer discount on the PPP,(may consider) if I order the PPP at the same time as the car as an extra? 04 model car at £18250 + RFL. (£1K extra for 05 model)

Better price anywhere?????

corradoboy

Discounts on PPP are rare, at best you might be able to use SIDC membership to blag 10% off (25 for membership, 160 saving ). Bully hard on the 04 model, I was offered one for that in January. Get a price from Tins, Drive The Deal etc, then play a few dealers off each other. I'll PM you with some more info

M3 Compact

Thanks mate, if I liked the PPP I'd have a real go at £19K and 'keep the spare bits', for the blue one at my local dealer. Mitzy 260 at £19K in another thread.

Links/info would be great thanks.

M3 Compact

Ah, PM, thanks.

I'll let you know.

corradoboy

www.sidc.co.uk

http://www.sidc.co.uk/article/default.asp?art_id=119

www.tins.co.uk

www.drivethedeal.com

What do you mean, "keep the spare bits" ?

M3 Compact

I thought this involved an exhaust back box replacement? Taking a standard one from a brand new car won't go wasted will it?

I'm cynical.

Cheers for links, PPP test drive required.

corradoboy

Sorry, yes you will (should ) be given your standard bits back (BB and maybe I/C pipe), except the ECU, which is sent to Prodrive to have the map installed for the next PPP purchaser.

Let me know how you get on.

M3 Compact

Thanks Mark.

Dyno sheet paints the pic' for me.

V-TEC etc is not what I'm after, a little 'stretch' at the upper torque/power range will suffice. (Standard with a little 'knowledge for the future' may suffice for now)
Supplier recommendations?

Thanks, Simon.

Harry_Boy

Yup - that was me

Surprising difference in driving characteristics between my standard MY02 and Dave's PPP MY03.

As Dave says, his has sooo much more torque where it matters...

Lucky we were in the 'famous' twisties, where a fresh set of GSD3s can help mask a power deficit....

corradoboy

the Bridgestones on the back of mine are a court appearance waiting to happen. Great for getting the back end out though can't stop doing it Plus, my driving that night was appauling Well, until Dazza gave me the keys to his STi anyway

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

This is what you get put on a WRX :-



This is what they took off & gave me back :-



Mark

Harry_Boy

Yup, saw you getting your back end out more than once Dave....
Then it was even worse.....

PS. I've corrected your typo....

GREGGYG

iTrader: (2)

Hi, it really depends what exactly you want from the car, how you want it to perform around corners, in the wet, in straight lines, are you fussy about soundproofing, must the car be good on motorways, etc, etc. I bought a brand new WRX PPP in 2003 and had the car for a very pleasurable 17 months and 14000 miles. It was superbly refined, quick, good on fuel, fairly quiet at speed, felt safe. BUT, it had a couple of things which I didin't like, like feeling a little soft during high speed cornering, huge steering wheel, weakish brakes, I put DS 2500 pads on and this made a significant difference in stopping. These little things got to me after a while, and I sold the car and bought an Evo 7 FQ 300, because I wanted mental acceleration, I wanted to take corners as quickly as possible! Anyway, as much as I like the Evo, I really miss my Scooby and will be getting another in May 2005, when my insurance expires! I suggest strongly that you drive, for a good 30 minutes each car, a classic UK turbo, a bugeye/blobeye WRX/PPP/STi, and a classic Import, say a version 5 STi. Then you could try a modded car. You'll know whats for you after careful research!