Nigeyboy

On the way home today I came up to said Beemer, which was driving fairly slowly and even slower round roundabout. So at the turnoff I pulled in to the outer lane to overtake him (I was in 3rd probably not quite 3k revs). At this point BMW floors it and I really struggle to keep up. Then I hit the rev limiter, change up, but 325 still pulling strongly. At this point I gave up as I was taken by surpise.

Now I admit to not being prepared for a "Race" , but was very surprised by the turn of pace. I guess I would have expected to struggle against a 330Ci, but a 325Ci - what's going on?

Have you diced with a 325 engined Beemer and if so what was the outcome?

Nige (MY04 WRX + PPP)
- in need of a power upgrade to 300bhp methinks

Nevetas

Don't worry, you would of had him through the twisties!

preacha

He must have caught you off guard big time ...

My02 Wagon has had plenty of tussles with 325i and 330i

And was never outpaced by any , but the 330i comes very close

Thats a standard wrx bug eyed wagon.


Now with a few zip-bits on its all too easy... surprised the PPP is well... not up for it - hmmh.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

It could be that your car now weighs as much as a small planet with all the safety/comfy bits nowadays 265BHP aint enough to run your aircon let alone try to outrun a middle range beemer!

Best get a remap and decat, so that you don't have to change down to make progress on inclines

F

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hmm, must have caught you off-boost, either that or is wasn't a 325i! :-) Most BMW drivers have a tendancy to overbadge their cars (ever noticed how even 316is have an M badge on there somewhere). Maybe this owner put a 325i badge on an M3 LOL My Classic had no problem saying goodbye to a pesky 330i recently, and it's standard.

Best.

gso

hmm interesting.... my colleage at work just bought a 325 and challenged me to a showdown... hmm guess i best pay attention

MadMark

A 325i???? - Good god man - have you no self respect .......

BMW's are the root of all evil and even my standard 03WRX (OK nearly standard) will pull away from a 330i ...... I don't waste the petrol on anything less!
Porsche Boxsters are the most fun - 2.7's are slower straight line - but faster on really twisty roads and the "S" is slightly faster in a straight line and faster through the twisties (so it's then a question of driver skill)!!!!

LG John

You must have been well caught with your pants down. I had a brilliant *cough* race with a e39 325i in my 406 V6. We nailed it from 50mph up to 140 (honestly we had the road to ourselves) and the 406 put a good 8-10 car lengths on him (not much I admit but I was chuffed) I've also played with a few classic scoobys (standard) from 50-100+ and kept up with them to give you an idea of the pug vs scooby. However, a 04 ppp would leave my car even after 60 so should be more comfortable against a 325. He must have really got his car into its stride before you knew what was going on! Perhaps you engine is tight? Mileage?

Oh and FWIW having owned a standard* classic scooby and having seen a standard 330i at full chat I can categorically say that the scooby is bang in trouble above 60mph! Remember a lot of these 330s aren't given death (even in a race) by their rep owners. Flat out and a 330 will pull like a train!

* don't come back and say, we'll my standard scooby blew one away when you have a cat-back or whatever. Any mod to the scoobys breathing or exhaust makes a noticeable difference to 60-100mph performance.

Just out of interest if you include Crail I have raced 100s of cars in my time. Out of those the ones that have left me the most gobsmacked in the expected performance vs actual performance is the 330i (really quick), the current M3 (bloody hell!) and oddly the 160bhp vtec CRX. I think BMW are 'cautious' on their performance claims.

ProdriveSTI

are you sure your car is 260BHP - -you might have to check in case its loosing power.... have you had it on the RR?

Sub97

<Pedant mode on>
There's no such car as an E39 325i

DevilHimSelf

Nods

E39 M5

ajm

Yeah, a 325i could only be E30, E36 or E46

Keef69

I'm surprised you struggled with a 330i as I had several races with 330ci's when I had a chipped Golf, 167bhp and was evenly matched on acceleration, although the top end was only 122mph! I assume the convertible "ci" is the same spec as the "i" or am I wrong there?
Recently I have tussled with a new M3 and beaten it relatively easily, enough that he tried twice, then gave up. Also a new M5, which I must admit, was a close call. Neither of us could gain on the other and we were very evenly matched. I was pleased, as the M5 is known as very quick car, don't know the specs, but I'm sure someone will enlighten me. I'm running 288bhp & 264ft/lb and combined with the JDM STI gearing, it really does mean that most BMW's are not worth bothering with.

Boyakasha

iTrader: (2)

Don't worry, one of my neighbours has a 330ci and the other day I was in the other half's Standard 03 WRX. Came off a roundabout and he was coming straight across behind me, so I nailed it and he didn't make anything on me, in actual fact I gained about 2 car lengths up to about 90mph when I slowed for the next roundabout.

Leslie

I find that my M3 Evo is every bit as good as my Sti was on cornering, wet or dry roads, and we get plenty of practice at that in Devon. As far as acceleration is concerned, the Sti which was well modified was better at the lower speeds but the Evo is the same or slightly better higher up the range.

It seems to be the fashion to run Beemers down but whatever anyone says, it cannot be denied that the M3 is a very fast car with oustanding roadholding, very smooth and comfortable, and the build quality is very high.

Les

ajm

Sounds like we have done a "swap-eroo" Les! My previous car was a '98 M3 Evo and I changed it for a Sti8 PPP at the beginning of this year!

I loved the M3, the only reason I got rid of it was because I fancied a change! The car was standard except for a stainless exhaust system, H&R coilovers and a custom air intake.

You do realise that as we have owned both cars we are in the minority for participating in an M3 vs Scooby debate on Scoobynet!

Keef69

When I said most BMW's were not worth bothering with, I did mean in terms of racing against. That may have come over as a slur on BMW's, but I actually think they are superb cars, really well built and a great drive. Loved my old classic shape convertible as much as any other car for comfort.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I don't think anyone could seriously claim that the BMW M3 is not a superb car- and exceptionally fast. A friend of mine is lucky enough to have an M3 convertible and was kind enough to let me have a go. Stonking engine, very well resolved for UK roads and surpisingly forgiving for a high powered real wheel drive car, refined when it needs to be and has a real premium feel about it. I was very, very jealous. . . . . Till I got the Scooby! :-)

BMW mates verdict on the Scooby? "Love the sound, very quick indeed, almost obscene when you consider the relatively low cost, exceptionally forgiving car too. Won't be seeling the BM though"

Fair enough! :-)

Best.

Nigeyboy

I think I shall rest easy knowing that I should be OK next time I see a 325

Also I guess the fact that since I've had this model (1 year now), nobody has tried to aheem "race" me, so I guess I've just got a bit lazy.

The consolation I have is that it's bl00dy great at the 'Ring and I can't wait for my Spring pilgrimage

Nige

StiX

iTrader: (4)

Subaru Impreza WRX PPP £22,095 4/1994 261/6000 257/3500 190bhp/ton 0-60 4.8 150mph

BMW 325Ci £25,250 6/2494 192/6000 181/3500 131bhp/ton 0-60 7.1 149

BMW 330Ci £27,990 6/2979 231/5900 221/3500 154bhp/ton 0-60 6.5 155

BMW M3 £39,730 6/3246 338/7900 269/5000 219bhp/ton 0-60 5.1 155


You should be able to murder the 325 I would have thought looking at those figures from evo above, easily beat the 330 and not be too far behind the M3?


Interestingly the P1:

Subaru Impreza P1 '00-'01 4/1994 276/6500 260/4000 219bhp/ton 0-60 4.9 150

has a power/weight ratio exactly the same as a modern M3.

Interesting for me anyway as my classic is making the same power as a P1, hence near enough the same figures

bits'n'pieces

Some company sells a supercharger kit for $5000 imported, gives a 330 342 bhp, takes an M3 to just over 400, maybe you came upagainst one of those ?
I have a 330 and a scoob and all I can say is you are kidding yourself if you reckon a nearly standard scoob will pull away at anything over 70.....

DarkStar66

If the 325 had a good auto box it probably dropped a cog and got a jump on you. And you have to be really good to shift quicker than modern auto. Also your power probably peaks before the limiter cuts in so you need to find the optimum change up point before the acceleration slacks off. Also everbody is assuming it's a standard 325.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Bits and pieces, but 70 MPH is the maximum permissible speed on UK roads, why would you want to go above that? ;-)

Best.

LG John

Doh, I meant E46 I've got M5s on the brain ever since I realised you can get reasonable examples for 20-20k!!!

LG John

Finally someone in the know that agrees with me. In fairness to the poster he should have mugged the 325 at pretty much any test of acceleration but a 330 is another prospect in motorway sprinting.

Tommy_Lee

Forget power to weight and 4wd,watch this clip of an evo 7 taking on a new M3.
http://individual.utoronto.ca/JDean/M3vsEVO.wmv

LG John

Ceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

That pretty much demonstrates my experience of M3s! I raced one in my VTS and the distance it pulled on me going down a slip-road is best measured in football pitches! I was going backwards!!! I've seen them at full chat on other occassions and they pull like hell!! The ONLY time I've seen one beaten was when I was in sg72s 415bhp Type-R and we destroyed the M3 but then we would with that p/w/r and short gearing!

M3s make their power waaaay up the rev-range. I expect a lot of would be M3 slayers might find that they were not being shifted bawhairs from the redline as is required for maximum acceleration.

LG John

The launch of the EVO sucked though! The guy could have saved himself at least a few of the car lenghts of his defeat if he'd put her off the line well!

hades

4wd traction helps on 0-60, but at higher speeds, a 330 or even an M3 isn't going to be traction limited, and has a MUCH lower transmission loss. If you took the power-weight ratio as power at the wheels, the answers might be a bit different.

Yes, you should still be able to beat a 325i if it's standard. However, say he's 2 seconds off you in 30-70 (probably won't be more than that). If you were in the wrong gear (i.e. 3rd not 2nd), you'll take say at least second longer to get to 70. If he got on the gas 1 second earlier than you, that makes it that you'll have to be donig at least 70 before he stops pulling away from you. Just a thought - you can't automatically murder any car at any speed just because you have a bit more power!

matieboy

When my scoob was only 250bhp there was not much difference between that and my 325ci once you got the bm rolling.Now my scoobs over 300 bhp it blows it away on every occasion how ever much my misses trys.
Matthew 306bhp RB5 for sale.