Deep Blue Mica

Hi all!

The WR1 was embarrassing the other night on Top Gear......for all Scooby nutters, including myself.
However, I did try to alert you all a few weeks ago that this car was maybe not all that great......I had a play with one in my Evo and was frankly very disappointed. The usual stuff about not being run in etc was cited as an excuse, but that's just bollocks......it still understeers noticably and is really twitchy under heavy braking.
The P1 WR remains the ultimate Scoob for me.....Subaru really need to get the finger out and sort out this understeering crap because it ruins these fantastic machines!

DBM

BOBBY G

Agreed,

Many moons ago I started a thread about my STI Type UK having dissapointing handling i.e. understeer then snap oversteer.
But did they listen?

No.

I was apparently crap at driving and knew hee haw.

Then, interestingly, almost every review under the sun said the same as me.

Love your Scoobs handling????

Try an Evo and wake up!

Chris L

As I've said elsewhere. I believe a lot comes down to people either misunderstanding or not knowing the difference between handling and grip. Elise - great handling, lowish grip (in comparison to a Scoob). Scoob - great grip, average handling.

Both cars are great fun and achieve the end result in totally different ways. Problems occur when you really stretch a car and then you understand it's limitations. This is exactly what you saw on Top Gear. Both cars were pushed very hard - the WR1 beyond it limits. The result was not pretty. The Evo is similar, if not ultimately more composed. Its trick electronics help disguise it to a certain extent.

I do think you need to put it in context though. Both these guys are amazingly quick and will be more than a match for most other cars you care to name. They are not infallable and do have weaknesses though.

Chris

Skittles

Oh come on guys, just because TG say its not as good as a Mitsi doesn't mean anything. One conclusion I have come to with TG is that it is ENTERTAINMENT, and not proper objective motoring journalism!

FFS everyone is WR1 bashing just because of TG - what about all the other positive press?

I remember when the M3 was marginally slower than the S4 - totally inconsistent with every other review.

If you want a car to understeer a lot you can make it. Enough said.

andypugh2000

Put tiff needel in the WR1 against the evo and there will be no understeer and a much more impressive track time , what the hell are tg doing racing them round a track in the first place, both are not track cars they are road prepared family saloons

Scratch

iTrader: (1)

"Road prepared family saloons"

PMSL

T-gro

Not necessarily the case.

I posted this link a couple of days ago, and, at the risk of repetition, its worth looking at.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~sco...s/handling.htm

The Elise is a fantastic car, and I've loved the ones I've driven, but I wouldn't say they handled better.

On track they have clear advantages. They are light, and don't overheat the tyres and brakes like the scooby does (in most cases), but that does not necessarily make them better handling.

The S1 had some particularly nasty on limit handling traits, which was due mainly to the inherent qualities of a mid engined, rear drive very lightweight car, but of course as they led to over, rather than understeer, it is not considered as much of a problem

The S2 sloved these problems with a few well chosen suspension and geometry tweaks, the equivalent of us taking a trip to Powerstation

My point is that the layout, and setup of a car can make a huge difference, but it need not stay that way.

My Type-r feels a completely different car from my old UK, despite being essentially the same saloon based vehicle, and both of them have (some)handling qualities I would regard as superior to an Elise and (some) qualities that I would regard as inferior.

What i wouldn't say is that an Elise is a "better" handling car.

Carl2

I went against a WR1 at York dragway on Sunday in my gtir and I beat him. I was short changing, have a dodgy head gasket and only 250bhp. He did a 13.292 to my 13.219.

MikeWood

Carl

Been through this several times but remember that we have put some temperature protection strategies into the ECU on all our PPP cars. This protects the engine when intercooler and intake temps get too high so that the ECU can run the car safely when everything is 'normal' Unfortunately this means that you will get less than optimal performance on a drag strip if you've had the car stationary and warm for more than a couple of minutes, hence you being able to beat him by a whole 0.07 of a second! He probably didn't get full boost until 4th gear..........

Mike

hawkeye

ahhhh but the Wr1 wasnt run in, he wasnt trying, the twisties HEATSOAK........alll bowlocks im afraid we are now starting to see the Wr1 in its true light... not much better than a nicely sorted STi IMHO

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Hawkeye I make you right very right. The WR1 is not that exceptional IMHO.

I wrote this on another thread....
As **** kickings go this was exceptional. Subaru knew about TG weeks in advance and if they did uprate the WR1 then thank god my money is still in my wallet. Who cares who tweaked what and added this to that. The bottom line to about 5 million viewers is the Evo trounced the Scoob full stop.

The trouble with hyping any product is that if it has faults they will be given equal billing with the likes of Beckhams new tat
Talking of wasting money on tat.....

hawkeye

and the worst thing is the Wr1 is subaru UK's BEST the Evo isnt...... oh dear i just hope prodrive deciede to contact clarkson and put the record straight..... otheriwse those 500 WR1's aint gonna be worth what people think...... lets hope they dont make another 500 but thats another conspiracy theory

Gangsta Smurf

Funny that everybody is slating the WR1 now that JC said it was rubbish. I raced a brand new Porsche Turbo on Monday night (with a witness) and was completely equal with him through all gears. As Mike Wood has said in my post regarding the times vrs the STI ... it was a different test driver!! The driver of the WR1 was over-driving the car and that's why it was handling the way it was. Lotus had the same situation and sent a qualified driver down to top gear to show them how to drive the Elise. The results speak for themselves with JC admitting he was wrong!!

Basically all the people who don't own WR1's are so quick to slate them at any given opportunity - however you don't really stop to think about the fact that the car on Sunday was not being driven properly - it was obvious from what happened. The same with the Porshe Carrera GT!!!

I own a WR1 and drive it hard ... I also haven't experienced any of the problems that people who say they've driven them are touting on here. I have had direct responses from Mike on this and when you take his observations into consideration a lot becomes apparent!

johnfelstead

It isnt Bollocks Hawkeye. The same drag strip issue affects more than just the PPP cars, there is a car all Impreza enthusiasts want to own right now that has the same engine protection strategy in place too and doesnt show as well in this type of disipline as the on the road behaviour shows either. Study scooby shootout results if you want to see what i am talking about.

The WR1 and all the latest PPP's are 3 year warantied products, they have engine protection strategies in the mapping to make sure it doesnt fail within the waranty period, to not have this would remove the option of having an oficially tuned Impreza for the UK market.

scoobynutta555

Agree with the first post

davyboy

PMSL - it gets better!

chiark

Lotus had the chance to show Clarkson how to drive the Elise in a way that got the best out of it.

Someone at Subaru should do the same. I've been driven around rockingham by someone who's name escapes me, but he won the UK TVR championship a couple of years back... The car was sideways everywhere and did not understeer once. That is not the fastest way to get around a course, but overdriving it into every corner is not the fastest way either.

I'd love to see what Subaru say about this.

Cheers,
Nick.

Skittles

This is a joke... right?

Jiggerypokery

You need to get out more often.

C

So lets get this straight...

Now this is one BIG if (lol)

If Subaru do ever manage to beat an Evo on the TG trck, it will of course, still just be entertainment instead of a proper test?

Like hell it will

Skittles

No, not at all. My point is that TG is entertainment and not a scientific test so the results need to be taken with a pinch of salt. I found it odd that the WR1 was so closely matched by the STi PPP - perhaps this really is the case?

One thing is for sure... the WR1 residual values will be affected (maybe not in the longer ters) - TG is pretty influential. I remember when JC slated the Aston with the flappy gearbox, aparently premiums fell through the floor the next day as people cancelled orders etc

hawkeye

John my post regarding bowlocks was regarding the hype of the WR1 is has been immense and encouraged people to buy a somewhat flawed car........ why ohh why do we always get the short end of the stick..... its the best uk warrantied car ever etc etc etc...... really if thats the case then Mitsubishi are running all the way to the bank (lets face it they need it but thats another story)

All im saying is it certainly doesnt look on the face of it to bet the semi-supercar it was hyped to be.....

achad

I think a lot of ppl need to get a life. Why all the smugness? rofl. If you don't want to purchase the car, fine, don't. No its not the 'ultimate' car Subaru/ Prodrive could of built. This has been discussed already. But with the time available I think Prodrive have done a wicked job with in the confines of what seems to be their brief. After reading most of the WR1 threads, out off all the slaters, I think I can only remember reading 1 person who has driven it!? Of course everyone is entitled to there opinion but the topic of this thread is as sad as ppl take top gear and others as gospel.
Yes I drive a WR1. No I can't drive it to its limits so would I notice a difference compared to the Evo.... properly not! How about most of you lot???
Am I happy with it? Yes, like you wouldn't believe!
You may say 'sour grapes' ect. I'm not too bothered at the result from tg (was expected thb) as I've posted b4 I would like to know what settings the dccd was on etc etc. I'm not trying to defend the car in any way, I don't feel the need to. I'm disappointed with ppl's knock down, cut throat and follow the leader attitude. JK tactics, should produce a few response's

hawkeye

im glad your enjoying the car achad, i too have had the pleasure of driving one and an mr340 back to back both very good cars.... horses for courses etc etc im just surprised at they hype.....

enjoy

MattW

Just testing my new profile

achad

In what way? I don't think I have seen a road test yet. Is it not the road its been designed for?

I do agree with you

Any hype should always be taken with a large dose of salt, vinagar and some ketchup up. Marketers are there to accentuate the 'buzz' and 'spin' words. In the the WR1's case, the fact that it is the 'fastest' most 'powerful' uk car yet. No lie, but delivered to give the most impact.

LiamWR1

Been here before... bought a crossfire & when it appeared on TG Clarkson ripped it apart, you may recall it's rear end being compared to "looks like a dog taking a dump" well after that comment the car didn't fair to well

Didn't make me want to sell it on the spot though and the same thing goes for the WR1 (should get it Friday) I'm not buying a car to impress JC, rip round a race circuit or road race other performance cars (well I might have a go at the last one ) so I've opted for a good all rounder with a good (local) reputation for aftersales & support etc,

But I dont believe I've bought the ultimate supercar that will see off all contenders!?!? and I haven't fallen for any hype either, I guess anyone who's bought this car under the assumption it's the fastest thing on four wheels is going to be sorely disappointed... but anyone who's bought this as a fun, well built fast car will be more than happy with it

Gangsta Smurf

Jiggerypokery/Davyboy ... no it's not a joke. The WR1 kept up with it until cars blocked the road (which was right up to changing into 5th), if it could have gone on any longer of course the Porsche would have rocketed past 150. I was more pleased that I had someone in it with me to back me up because then I can post up on threads like this one which is full of people slating the WR1, who have never driven one ever, and give it a bit of truth.

davyboy

911 turbo can get to 100 in less that 10 secs?

Normal 911 can do it in under 12

Wr1 - can do neither

hawkeye

ive driven a WR1 and an MR340 and I have an MY02sti guess what ive never driven a 911 turbo BUT i know which one is the slowest and which is the fastest

Fastest = German

Slowest = japanese spealt with a W and an R

come on gangsta the wr1 aint no 911 turbo.....