Gangsta Smurf

Mike I just wanted to get you're input, either by posting on here or by PM if you prefer about the Top Gear test of the Evo vrs the WR1. It's not so much the Evo winning the test but the fact that the WR1 was only a second quicker around that track that a standard version VIII STI. When I bought the WR1 it was being sold as the quickest Subaru built by IM.

I know that it greatly depends upon the driver and the track/tyres but I just wanted the input from somebody who was actually involved in the construction and testing of the WR1 as to why it performed so badly compared the the standard STI. I am fed up of reading contradicting information by people who had nothing to do with this car.

If you could get back to me I'd appreciate it.

Also please can people not post their opinions on here as there is another post for this. I am using this post to get a direct response as I have read the other post and want a professional opinion from someone involved in this car.

Cheers,

Rob

urban

iTrader: (1)

Rob,

I know you said about people not posting their opinions in here, but you refer back to the "Standard STI". There could be a slight misunderstanding in reading this, but it was it not the PPP'd STI, and not the bog standard one?
Pretty sure the STI was PPP'd, but Mike or someone will definately put and end to this.

Regards,

Shaun

Dazza's-STi

it wasn't it was .3 of a second quicker than the MY03 STI PPP

Phil

Gangsta

You have PM

MikeWood

Rob

I find the whole thing frustrating really that people are prepared to base their opinion of how good a road car is by how quickly it can be driven around a race circuit. We never designed the WR1 to be the ultimate track car and it's not fitted with a tyre that I would suggest to anyone driving the car in this manner, it's not designed to be used in this way unlike some of the other more track orientated tyres fitted to the JDM Evo and STi models.

The car was in no way different to the spec that a customer would take the car away from a dealer, ie not optimised to suit track work. The tyre pressures would have been set as normal but I always use much higher pressures when I am doing any track based demo. As a note we demonstrate the cars on tracks for safety reasons, not because we are promoting them as track cars. It's just not possible to reach the limits and demonstrate how the car works within the speed limits and other confines of the public highway.

I would like the opportunity to do what Lotus did when TG slated the Elise and actually show them how to get the best from the car. From what I remember of the feature, that amount of understeer can only be generated by completely overdriving the car and ripping the front tyres to bits which is not possible on the road and is not the fastest way around a circuit either.

The STi comparison that was used was the 03MY car which had a PPP fitted and was driven by a different Stig in a way that was somewhat easier on the front tyres so probably much nearer the ultimate capability of the car.

Mike

Gangsta Smurf

I appreciate your response Mike. As you can probably imagine if you had just spent upwards of £30K on a car to see it rubbished by an extremely well watched and supported motoring programme it would knock you back a bit. As I said in my original post I understand that track, tyres (should have added competent driver) are what determines the results of this test ... however I just wanted YOUR professional opinion on the matter which is creating quite a stir within these forums.

Once programmes like TG rubbish a car it is very difficult for it to get any respect afterwards ... obviousely Lotus were inclined to try and set the record straight.

Once again thank you for responding to my post.

hawkeye

Mike

I would say the reason people base their opinions on events like this is as follows:-

1 like you say people cant drive cars to the limits safely on the main road

2 not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford trackdays on a regular basis

3 these events like magazine articles help people shape their views.... if a car is built
through hype and testing to be amazing it will sell easier therefore people like to
see it beat the competition lets face it the evo subaru battle is one fo the reasons
both cars are so popular

4 people have to be very lucky to be able to drive say an evo 8 and a Wr1 back to
back no dealers will let you take them away to drive on your own so to see them in
direct competition is something people want to see.


but i would agree that getting yourselves to show the British public how the Wr1 can be driven properly would be something I'd like to see and unfortunately i have become one of the sceptics

all IMHO of course

paul

ARM-Scooby

It would be good to see what the car was possible of in the correct hands.

I was reading the the new TG mag last night and it gave the W1 an ok write up.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

dont see what all the fuss is about.

its a limited edition of 500, im guessing they are all sold now anyway. correct?

lets just re-cap the speed limit in england is 70 yes 70 whole miles per hour, if you get caught doing 100 measley miles per hour you can get banned. who gives a flying F uck about a few tenths of a second? its a road car. you buy the car for the fact its quick, it looks the business and has all the toys. IMHO top gear has gone well passed its sell by date anyway. the fact they rib skodas still says it all for me. as they are now pretty much a vw.

if you have one be happy knowing your one of only 500 other owners accross the world, its a beautifull looking car and its too fast to drive in england to its limits.

enjoy

jamo

Old_Fart

The Evo is more track optimised than the Scoob, always been the case really with regards to UK spec Imprezas vs Evos.
Horses for courses, and I've always picked the Scoob over the Evo as a 'complete' package (which means 99% road use, small track use)
If I wanted a track car, though, I'd get an VX220, Elise 111R or Series 1 sport 160 in preference to any 1400KG 4 door saloon.
Chuck

chiark

Mike,

Good luck with the Beeb. I think Subaru deserves a "right to reply" just like the elise (I posted the same on another thread without knowing you had brought this up) as the driver did not know how to get the best out of the WR1.

Cheers,
Nick.

dtriggs

I take notice of what a track test like TG did comes up with as it is the only real way of back to back testing 2 cars. Conditions on roads will never be the same so it is very hard to get standardised conditions for any test. You do have to realise it is an 'Entertainment' program rather than a Racing event.

As Mike says each car was tested in road trim, and exactly how it arrives from the dealer. The WR1 is not as harsh as the Evo and overall is a car I would prefer for mainly road use. I had my Verion 4 RA as I wanted a car best for track use, and compromise for the road. The P1 was far slower round the track than my RA - yet the P1 was a better road car.

RobinSherwood

Rob,

Thanks for posting this query for Mike

and

Mike,

Many thanks for replying as I have to say I was also feeling a bit concerned having paid out £30k, especially as I have not got my WR1 yet so not able to make my own mind up. I hope you get 'Right of Reply' from Top Gear.

Also for those of us who either have or like me are awaiting their WR1 whilst at the NEC for the Motorshow on Friday I had a chat with an aquaintance who is a journalist on Autocar and who has tested both cars. Knowing that I have other cars (he has borrowed two of my other cars when working at another magazine) and that my WR1 is intended as my every day road car he assured me that in his opinion I had DEFINITELY made the right choice. So I am doing my best to sit back and ignore all this and hope to enjoy my car when I finally get it (Paid for 14 days ago, still no pack, still no delivery date )

Kind regards,

Robin

MikeWood

Coming up with a fair and equitable test to prove which is the 'better' of a number of cars is almost impossible. What one person is looking for is not necessarily the same as another. What appears to be the best handling car measured by how it works on a track in very skilled hands is more than likely going to be an evil monster in unskilled hands on the road. It's all about a suitable compromise. A Subaru is relatively benign on the road near the limit if anything unexpected happens but you wouldn't want to use up anywhere near as much safety margin up if you were driving anything with the engine behind the driver or even behind the rear wheels, there simply aren't as many options available to you.
Even comparisons of very capable cars driven on racecircuits by less confident drivers are difficult to make with someone who's got half an idea in a Subaru. Our 03MY STi Demo proved quicker than lots of Ferraris and Lambo's at Goodwood. Doesn't mean it's better/faster or whatever, just means that I was more able to exploit the performance than the other drivers who were less confident in their somewhat more expensive and challenging cars.

dtriggs
I said that our car was in 'showroom' spec, can't comment about the Evo although there have been some comments elsewhere that may back up what a major magazine found when they drove our P1 development car and a dealer sourced Evo 6 rather than a press car.

Mike

scandinavian flick

Mike, do you know what the DCCD was set at? It would be good If the car could be re-tested without stig pushing the front all over the place!
Jon M

MikeWood

Jon

No idea, he should just have left in in Auto and let the electronics sort it out when it got lairy.

Robin
I believe you were talking to a good friend of mine at the show on Friday about your impending new car.

Mike

Gangsta Smurf

Mike,

Thank you again for replying on this thread. I know you must be fed up having to justify this car all the time. I am over the moon with my WR1, compared to my previous Subaru it is like chalk and cheese. I appreciate your comments and opinions - very nice to get true information instead of the rubbish and abuse from some of the other threads.

Top geezer!

Rob

Edcase

oi!
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...8&page=3&pp=20

RobinSherwood

Hi Mike,

99.9% sure I know who you mean Assuming you know what he arranged for me on Saturday, that also helped a great deal in convincing me I have bought the right car (and that I will have to learn to live without a wagon). I'll be thanking him personally when he gets back from holiday(?) and only wish I had bought my WR1 from him and not the muppets who have my order.

Also will be waiting with interest to see what the two of you have up your sleeve, so looks like meeting him on Friday could be expensive for me

Kind regards,

Robin

Nathan L

Mike I personally would like to see you go on Top Gear and drive the car properly.

I have got a JDM STi with DCCD-A and have never managed to get it to understeer like that. 'Power Oversteer' maybe, understeer........never.

Why not give in and take some track tyres etc? If you can't beam em join em.

Nathan..

Dream Weaver

Why are people worrying about opinions expressed on TG

Buy the car, then if you dont enjoy it sell it.

Initial D

I still dont know why you would spend all of that cash on a WR1 when the Type 25 is around? Yes, it looks nice and theres only 500 of them - so is it the rare aspect that has made you part with your cash?

nom

I think the answer to that would be 'each to their own'

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Here here

kob999

I think there is some overestimating of the power topgear has to make or break a car.

I like the show and would love to have Jeremy Clarksons job but he is nothing more than a journalist/TV presenter who has a show about cars.

As far as I am aware his qualifications with regard to cars are the same as mine....a drivers licence

RobinSherwood

Part of the answer comes down to insurance cost. My WR1 will cost less to insure than my 98MY Wagon with PPP, whereas the Type 25 would be considerably more. I spoke to Ian Litchfield and if he had been able to build me a Type 25 Wagon (he could have done a Type 25 Legacy Estate) then that would probably have swung things the other way.

Overall at this moment the WR1 should suit my needs better than Type 25

Regards

Robin

Old_Fart

I'd always want the dealer and warranty support that a UK edition comes with as standard...particularly If I were spending £30k+
C

Initial D

LOL!

Mark_BT52

I have to say I think the comments doubting Ben Collins ability as a driver compared to Perry McCarthy sound like petulant sour grapes.

General opinion has been that he has been faster than Perry, look at the GT3 RS laptimes compared the the GT3.

Anyone here really arrogant enough to honestly think they would get a better laptime than Ben Collins?

Mark

Madjay2

how good would that be a T25 wagon pure BEAST