lpro

Thought I better post this.

A friend has just sold his M3 Conv. for 35k. All seems a straight forward transaction, buyer see's the vehicle, price haggled, buyer will return tomorrow after doing the neccasary checks on the car and with a bankers draft.

The buyer returns a day later with draft in his hand and all the checks done. The bankers draft is then handed over and while the buyer was doing the final checks on the car, friends brother whizz's down the bank to ask if the draft is a pucker one(you know where it's going now). Phones his brother to say the draft is OK, buyer takes all the paperwork and keys to the car, seeya.

Two days later call from the bank "I'm sorry sir the draft is a forgery" £uuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccc£"%£$^"$%&$%

A call to the police, and insurance. Police"you've been done" no $hit sherlock

Insurance" I'm sorry sir, but we cannot blah blah blah" usual dog's hairy.

Solictor "contract jargon blah blah blah"

So friend left up creek without.

So a warning anyone selling their cars, take one transaction only and that's a bank transfer. (cash can be forged too)

This happened in Binfield, so locaql's watch out.

IanF

Very good point.

When I sold my Scooby I went through the same process and bank would not confirm whether draft was genuine or not.

In the end said it was to be a bank transfer or no sale.

Buyer agreed to a bank transfer and everyone was happy.

Regards
IanF

SDB

That is a nightmare!!!

Surely if the bank said it was OK on the day, they will have to stand by that though?

[This message has been edited by Simon de Banke (edited 26-06-2000).]

lpro

No, unfortunately a draft is like a cheque. You can take a cheque into a bank and they can say it looks OK, but it still has to go to the clearing house. Same goes with BS cheques.

As you can imagine, he was walking around for a week like a zombie.

I can't imagine losing 100 quid never mind 35 grand.

Has now completley change my perspective in accepting cash, bankers drafts etc. Like Ian said Trf or nothing

sickboy

I would have thought the bank were liable if they said the draft was OK.

When I was a student I went in and withdrew a couple of grand cash to buy my MK1 GTi.

They handed the cash over no questions. I'd brought my passport and asked if they wanted ID. "Don't worry we're insured for fraudulent withdrawals" was the answer.

I was a bit miffed- I bet they'd be OK but I'd never have seen my money again!

Chris L

Ipro

Sorry to hear what happened - it's everyone's nightmare.

You are right when you say a bankers draft is a cheque. The difference is that (in the banking world), drafts are considered to be 'cash' - i.e. they are honoured. That is why you ask for a draft and not a cheque when you sell your car.

This is going to be a battle, but if you had someone at the Bank say it was OK, then you might just have a chance. All you have is a conversation - effectively a verbal contract(your word against theirs). Don't give up just yet - speak to your bank or consider going to the Banking Ombudsman and ask then to clarify where you stand.

Good luck

GCollier

I've heard nightmare cases like this before.

As well as the bank, another avenue to pursue would be the insurance company, since the car has effectively been stolen. From tales in the past, I know that some insurance companies have paid out in such a circumstance, others haven't. It's got to be worth a try, even if their initial reaction (as you say) is to try to fob you off - after all the fact that the draft was taken to the bank for verification of authenticity shows that the owner of the car wasn't negligent with respect to the sale.

Good luck,

Gary.

[This message has been edited by GCollier (edited 26-06-2000).]

johnfelstead

when ever i have sold a car on a bankers draft transaction i have always got the buyer to phone me through the branch details, account name and number and the draft number as soon as the draft is writen up.

I then telephone the branch, getting its phone number from directory enquiries, to confirm all the details are correct.

Once that is veryfied the buyer then has to give me the bankers draft and i confirm all the relevent numbers and branch details match was has been confirmed over the phone.

Then and only then do i hand over the keys.

The banks have absolutely no problem with giving this info out over the phone, i always tell the buyer to tell the branch staff to expect a phone call from me.

Markus

Sorry to hear about this

I would, if you've not done so already, go to the bank and ask to see the Bank Manager, explain the situation and state that due to the uncooperative nature of his branch you're closing your account and taking your banking elsewhere, also mention words like, legal advice, watchdog, local newspaper/radio/tv and then see what they're response is. I'm sure Ann Robinson would love a little story on the bank that told you 'tough luck!'


[This message has been edited by Markus (edited 26-06-2000).]

lpro

On the bank, I believe the bank said it look's OK. Thus not confirming it's a valid draft. I think a draft is a guarnteed cheque as sorts, ie a bank will honour that cheque(although not as the case is). I think he has been done that avenue with his solictor.

Insurance - I think that (don't quote me) if you leave the keys in the car and it's taken they won't pay out!!! He gave him the car,the rego, the keys,he also left his lecy garage door opener in the car. The legal wording "the intent was to sell the car"

In the fine print of a ins. document there is all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo that no-one ever reads but basicly they don not pay out on fraud. Again he went down that road with a solictor.

He's been had unfortunately.

In this day and age you can make a bank trf easily and as far as I'm concerned nothing else will do.

(By the way he has to sell his 911 conv. to fund his deposit on his new house)

GCollier

Just remembered, when I was selling my scoob last year. Some guy who was interested in the car agreed to buy it and said that he'd bring me a bankers draft to pay for it. I said that I'd accept a draft only if I could be present at the bank when it was drawn up. I never heard from him again.....read into it what you will.

As lpro says, be careful.

Kev

I think the days of "Building Society" cheques and "Banker's Draft" and even cash are long gone, if I sell anything "I can't afford to loose" it has to be a transfer of funds else no sale, lets face it if they can issue a cheque they supposidly have the funds so should'nt mind a transfer of cash instead.

I got ripped-off with some PC kit I sold a few years back, I took cash and even checked it with a security pen but when I handed £500 into the local branch £200 of it was duff ...... they called plod as well ... so as they say I learned the hard way .... now it's tranfer of funds or no sale .... yer take ya pick ...

K

johnfelstead

so what would happen if you were the person buying the car, transfered your money to this guys account and then he buggers off never to be seen again!!

In that case its buyer beware. lets face it, you can be screwed over no matter how hard you try.

I think the insurance not covering this is a scandal! Insurance companies, dont you just love em, not!

lpro

John,

Your pretty much covered with bank transfers, ie the day the wonga clears his account(still three days, swindling bar stewards) you turn up on his doorstep before 9.30am(money still not cleared) and the usual transaction takes place. Now if this fella is gone etc you can stop it with one call, can be instanious (sp!). Also the banks have a charter for fraudulant accounts. So your okey cokey.

As for the Insurance, it takes the biscuit. their term of "intent to sell" is complete crap. But they can get away with it, how!!!

Kev

OK .... you are right John it does sound a bit "buyer beware" ... t'was the way I worded it

I usually do it on a mutual basis .... when I sold my last load of PC kit we both went down to his bank and x-fered the cash across and he got his goods, I've found when you explain the reasons behind all the fussing about if they are genuine they don't question you.

I hate to say it but it's the element of trust thing ....

K

boomer

Just a thought, but if i was parting with my ex-beloved thirty-five grand car, i would think that a nice photograph or two of me shaking hands with the lucky new owner would be appropriate.

If the buyer was reluctant, then alarm bells would start ringing.

If s/he was a super-cool fraudster, at least the Police would have something to go on!

mb

IanF

Good point about taking pictures.

That explains why when a mate was buying a MR2 privately, the seller's dad had his camcorder out.

Regards
IanF

DavidG

GCollier's right - follow up on the insurance. Also, push the bank as far as possible: they told you the draft was alright. If either of them squirms then talk Ombudsman. For 35k, don't be fobbed off.

Subarussian

Don't you have the guy's name, number or address? Can you track him down based on the info in the bankers draft? Think, man!

I would find him and break his knees, then put a hot iron on his bare chest, then stick a Champaign bottle up his ****, then...

Sorry got carried away here. Traditional Russian way of sorting out this sort of dispute

robman

Does anyone offer escrow services for stuff like this? Escrow works by paying your wonga to an escrow company, and they hold it until you've got the stuff, then they send the money to the seller. Usually costs a small fee.

A lot of the Internet auction companies work in this way.

r