Gastro

Dear All,

I have been a member of scoobynet for over 2 years. When I was initially introduced to scoobynet it was an exciting place to be - it was fun - it was an exciting place to be....

Now there may be similar threads that have been posted ( I have tried to look - but the search function has been deleted !).... but I wondered what other people thought ?

I'm not whining about the cost of being a scoobynet 'plus' owner - I'm talking about how the whole BBS works... or rather it doesnt at the moment...

What scoobynet was was a great place to be - but the intrusion of making something 'cost' is plain to see - restrictive - to a point that scoobynet has lost its place.

I may be a modest poster on here - but scoobynet used to be my homepage. It isn't now.

How does everyone else feel ?

Gastro

ScoobyDoo555

OK. Scoobynet's changed. But, it is still the biggest community for cars on the net.

You can still post if you're not a +member.
You can still "For Sale".
There are other aspects that haven't chnaged either. These two are highlights.

I fully empathise with the Scoobynet team for, what was most probably, the most difficult decision they've had to make, about charging for full access to ScoobyNet.

However, it couldn't have continued the way it was. It was getting a bit like a Ned's get-together @ Mac Donalds' Drive Thru.....

No, I'm not having a go at the Neds - most are OK, and I'm not be Elitist and arrogant that the Scoob is the best thing since sliced bread (it is BTW!!), but there were an awful lot of undesirables causing grief to ScoobyNet. As I see it, Webmaster had to take measures to protect his investment as effectively as possible.

With regards to the payment issue - SIDC charge you (not ot use the BBS, but in general), and with all due respect to SIDC, ScoobyNet is still more popluar/seeing more traffic. ScoobyNet provides the same type of service (Simon/Shaun - still waiting for my membership pack btw ), so wat's the difference.

Scoobynet is my homepage, both at home and work. When I'm on a break (), there's ALWAYS something of interest to read or respond to.

Since the new BBS has been introduced, my post count has gone through the roof - I'm finding it easier and quicker to post, and with this apparent reduction in traffic due to the new system, I'm still getting resonses to posts as quick as I did before, so no change.

Whilst I understand and respect your decision to post about this - you must have strong reasons, basically, you're saying that you don't like Scoobynet as much as you did. Bring back the old system (?)
I don't agree. To survive, Scoobynet has to evolve. You wont't fight, so you've got two choices - evolve with it, or not.....

People just don't like change

This is all IMHO, of course

Dan

Type R

Not too fussed over the new system, but I tend to agree, i think I used to be on here all the time, not sure why, things change, people change, the dimise of the SIDC trackdays did it for me, although its proberly me getting older

Type R

Holly cow, just glanced to my left registered Oct 2000, 3.5 years, crikey.

f1

I didn't like the new Scoobynet at first but like has been said there was need for a change. I'm not a plus member 'cos I don't have a Scoob yet. But I can see why there was / is the need to charge. I guess that a BBS like this MUST take up a lot of time and effort. And at the end of the day with some great help and advice from people on here you can save your +membership several times over. So that to me is worth it on its own. I guess Webmaster etc. must have costs to keep this site running as welll as it does and therefore he needs to get some of his money back. Like I say personally I don't see that it is a problem needing to pay to access all areas. This is a great site and a credit to the people that help keep it going. IMHO of course.

NACRO

No search function is a PITA, as are the other restrictions, ultimately this BBS is shooting itself in the foot and losing respect across the net. Just try looking at what some other forums have to say about the state of this place.

As for paying for membership I'd expect more for my money than is currently on offer.

Still, as a free resource you cannot complain but the rot has set in for sure.

STi VII

I think it depends on what your reason for being a member is and how you utilise the resource that Snet is.
If you was a jump on the band wagon flamer warmonger from NSR then yes I would agree with your sentiment, but you only have to look at the depth of information available in the technical forums to realise that the info is still there you just have to search a bit harder now to find it. Another consideration for your change in perception could be down to the fact that you now know more about Scoobs than when you first joined and so the relevancy to you of information you already know about is minimal.
The pay factor also comes into it as well. This is only to be expected in the transitional period due to the strong feelings some people have over the very thought of paying for something that they have had an active role in creating. If these people can find an alternative to use that will give them the perceived status and kudus that they require then it is doubtful that they would return as all of their flattery and ego boosting is being obtained elsewhere. For the others that miss what ever it was they got out of Snet then I expect over time they would make a gradual return and the perception of a community would return.
The feeling that it has changed could be down to not recognising the other posters as there will always be a turn over of membership and if they do not feel the same about Snet or did not get out what it was that you did then there will be a disparity of esteem created between the two groups of original members and newbies that came along after the small member base that started it all. The original owners of Scoobs (of which I class myself as one, there is more than one facet to my ID) did not buy the car for its Bling Bling factor but totally for a combination of its rally heritage and performance. In the original days I am sure many people despite its quirky 'LOOK at ME' rally styling could merge into the dreary background of the vecters and Mondos of this land and not have the Police or Crims give them a second look. It was only after the masses got to know about the kudos among petrol heads the car had gained that they started to take notice. I remember in my first Scoob, a then one year old Silver STi IV pulling up to a set of lights and having some middle age couple start laughing and point at the bonnet scoop, gold wheels and rear spoiler. Needless to say when the lights changed there jaws soon dropped when they was treated to a demonstration of just how 'funny' my car was. Now if you was to drive an STi IV no one would bat an eye at its styling. It is now mainstream to have a Scoob and as such we get back onto the subject of Snet which is now mainstream and no longer just 'those in the know'.
It was a unique combination of these different causal factors which led to the family feeling that Snet had. You could say that the community is growing and that you have simply grown in a different direction and it is time to end the marriage or you could take the approach of the relationship you have had is worth more to you than to just give up and walk away. Only people themselves can decide if they should try harder at the relationship and take on board the changes and make allowances for the change to what things 'use to be like'
I only meant to post a short reply!
This disparity of esteem which you are feeling is only a natural part of being a member of a group that is evolving. This feeling will only be compounded further by any perceived changes to the format that you like. The trick is in trying to make the transitional period to a pay for the privilege site happen without losing to many of Snets original members. You have to be careful about listening to the VOCAL minority on this issue as they could push you totally in the wrong direction. Without enough support of the originals who have been there and got the T-shirt things could go down hill and never be pulled back to what they once were as rightly or wrongly they could feel 'cheated' and 'used'.
My own feelings on the subject are that the owners of Snet Ltd want it to now be self sufficient and the hobby mentality of the time and cost to run not being important has gone. I can understand this feelings as they see others making a living on the back of their hard work and financial support. As a subsequence of this they feel that they should be getting a part of the pie that Snet has helped to create.
I think the trouble comes when the direction the owners want and the original members does not continue in parallel but goes off at a tangent. This will only create bad feelings and resentment all round but it is a fact of life that things 'change' The secret for the owners is having enough new members to overcome the temporally glitch that they no doubt are or have experienced. They should really be trying to overcome this change of direction glitch by instigating active sponsorship of events to reach a larger potential member base. Exploit the different markets that these opportunities present and the shift will be successful for them. If they rest on their laurels and do not pursue a new area of the sub-culture that Snet was a facet of then they will die as the market will not last for ever due to the fall away factor. Time to chase the Bling Bling crowd to raise revenue. Promotion in the Bling Bling community will raise the awareness of the advantages of the membership giving 10% discount and you could probably pull in a lot of new members at events like Max power live etc. Then again what I know about exploiting a business model opportunity could be written on the back of a stamp LOL
The community has changed and if people leave because the community has changed you then have a paradox present itself. The secret to stopping the community changing anymore is to stay and find an area that interest you highly and you will soon develop that closeness with others again that you may feel you are now lacking. If you think it has changed to far you could always search out a different BBS that you feel has a lot of the originals that first drew you to Snet and the cycle will start all over again!

sillysi

The search engine is only disabled for non plus members so the team can work on getting it right for everyone. This is a site for Scoobs who cares about what other sites think, I don't. Scoobynet has moved on for the better IMO.

tiggers

Don't start me on this after yesterday's exchange with the powers that be around here - see the sticky thread regarding the search at the top of this forum for details.

As far as I'm concerned SN is a shadow of what it used to be as far as being a community goes.

tiggers.

Buzzer

No one can help me when it comes to a prob at work with SN. Since SN3 took off it takes an age to load pages at work (adsl), my dialup at home is ten times quicker

Before SN3 (on the old version) the pages were lightening quick but now i'm lucky if i can load a page in 5 minutes..............so its unusable until someone can help

I find i spend a lot of time on other sites now when i'm in w*rk. Is it the programming or something coz its really pi55ing me off

16vmarc

Im not too fussed but i prefered the old layout.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear that's been your experience.

When my engine blew a few weeks ago I was gutted and didn't really know what to do next. The Scoobynet community offered sympathy, constructive advice and an explanation as to what might have happened. Anyone who claims that the 'community spirit' (whatever that may be) is lacking clearly has never needed to call upon it.

Some people will whinge about anything. Put them on your ignore list and get on with life.

Neilo

I still think its fantastic, ive only been a member for less than a year but its always been and probably always will be my first port of call for any questions that i ever have. Sure the format has changed a little and certain services are now restriced to paying members but why not? the service and the level of commitment it takes to run this type of board should never be underestimated, it take s alot, so why not make some cash out of it......its just the same as anything else.

Keep it up lads/lasses

Neil.

DeerHunter

dont mind the new site!

where has the email when someone replies gone!

get the feeling it has gone v. commercial but no-one does anything for nothing in this world so dont mind!

ex-webby

Hi Guys

Thank you so much for the overwhelming support. It really is this kind of thing that keeps us going.

IMPORANT - People still continue to say that the new "commercial" measures are restrictive. Why? You still have everything you had before FOC, plus much more. The only exception to that, is TEMPORARILY the loss of the search facility until we can impliment the modifications we can do to aid efficiency (apologies to all for the delay) and the Wanted forum.

If you can really say that the loss of the Wanted forum is enough to consider scoobynet a shadow of it's former self, I would be surprised.

We have made a number of measures over the last few months (aside from the commercial elements) which were actually designed to reduce a level of unwanted noise from the forums.

We decided that we would not pander to the moaners and whingers and would spend all our time on the true community members that support us and each other, and enjoy a friendly and positive communication between us all. If this means that some people do not like the new site.. we are delighted as they are almost 100% the people that we would rather not have around anyway.

----

It is heart warming and (in a strange way) incredibly exciting to see the positive and supportive responses in this thread, and countless other threads around the board. It's exciting as it shows us what this great community still is. This great feeling and attitude used to be hidden piles of dross and negativity which we all put up with for far too long. I am delighted that we all feel confident enough now to speak up for the good of the community rather than pandering to the moaners and noise makers.

Thank you so much.. the future is looking fabulous, and those that are on-board will reap reward after reward from the many and varied incredible things we are now confident enough to plan.

All the best

Simon

Walwal

When the search function is back for everyone, then I'll be more receptive. At the minute, I'm still 50/50, but having said that, when it first changed, I was 100% against.

Slowly coming round methinks.

But get the search working for all please.

Andy.

Gastro

Webmaster,

I'm sorry that I have to be another carrier of bad news - the vey fact that you have decided to 'ignore' the requests for the old (tried and tested ?) BBS memebers - its a sad fact that a brief survey of 10 positive posts mean that the current BBS is well regarded !?

I'm afraid that this is not a scientific conclusion.

This BBS appears to have gone to the dogs IMHO - its difficult to navigate, restrictive, and quite frankly a poor second place to what 'scoobynet' used to be. Restrictive is perhaps a strong word - but thats how it appears when the BBS has become two-tiered.. it JUST DOESN'T WORK.

With Subaru sales falling as they have been - this BBS's future is numbered (again IMHO).

I fear that the day you didn't listen to the so called 'minority' may be your undoing Simon.


All the best,

Gastro

ex-webby

Hi Gastro

I have no issue with you or your posts. I am just encouraged that the tone of the thread is currently overwhelmingly in favour of where we're all going.

It is so so easy to complain, and takes guts to stand up for something and face the potential of ridicule - purely because of the fact that it is a safe and easy option to complain.

Regarding your points..

This is not the case at all. We have listened very carefully to the old solid community. All of these changes have come from that very process. What we are NOT listening to is the complaining of a small minority, which leads me on to...

Firstly.. it would surely be more of an "undoing" if we ignored the majority and listened to the minority?
Secondly.. what kind of personal 'undoing' would this bring me? I can tell you now, that if scoobynet had not had such a dramatic change in atmosphere and character, scoobynet would have been closed. Shaun and I had made the decision that we no longer wanted to be a part of scoobynet as it stood, and decided to make one final attempt to bring the community spirit back to the board. This has happend (actually, to our great surprise) and for this reason we are confident and thrilled that scoobynet has a future again.

If by 'undoing' you mean that scoobynet loses traffic. We actually WANTED to lose traffic. Time and time again we have been told that we do everything just to gain traffic and to keep advertiser revenue coming in, etc, etc, blah, blah. As can be seen by all of these measures, this is not and has never been the case. We want a great community supported by scoobynet. If that is achieved by 50% of the traffic we have now, who cares. As it happens, traffic has now increased since the changes, which all goes to show how important these kind of moves were to everyone.

You should be strong enough to realise that your opinion is not shared by the majority. Would you like to give me specific examples of why it is difficult to navigate, and why it is restrictive? Others do not seem to have the same problem as you. In-fact, if you select the "scoobynet classic" layout, the layout of the site is almost identical to what it was before.

How do you personally quantify / qualify that it JUST DOESN'T WORK? What measure are you using to say this? Again, the majority do not seem to share your views.

---

Gastro. It would be a shame to lose you as a member of this board, and I hope you just relax a bit and realise the following :

- The new software gives you more flexibility and features than the previous
- You are able to browse the site in an almost identical layout to the previous scoobynet
- You do not have to pay for any of the additional services, and the only thing you will lose is the Wanted Forum
- Change is not always bad, it can just be a little difficult to get used to.

Regards

Simon

StickyMicky

jesus, set your skin to classic scoobynet mode, now what exactly is the problem???

tiggers

Ahh! So the classic skin brings the search function back does it?

Brian the Sn@il

The new BBS is more what i am used to, look at all teh other BBS sites, Scoobynet really had upgrade to keep up with the times.

My one and only gripe is that we cant put pics dirctly onto the pages, other site have uploaders and can use img /img

even a plus member cant add a direct pic

Scoobs_4ever

SN is awesome.

It is the ultimate "Ask a Friend".

For questions from Scoobs to DIY to Computer to Muppets where else in this work can you dip into such a rich resource of knowledge.

Most of it is bollock$ but its where I go when I'm stuck.

SN for President.

ex-webby

Brian

Good point about attachments. After the search engine, attachments for plus members is one of the next priorities.

All the best

Simon

ScoobyDoo555

I can't believe people are still whinging about the search

Now, I don't think I've imagined this, but isn't the search offline whilst some changes are made to it? Ands that it will be back?

If so, what IS the problem?

Personally, I've made a folder in Outlook, which has any classic threads that I want to keep - just had to change the address when the URL moved....

In answer to speed issues, YES, there were some initially, but any recent probs I've had were down to my Firewall not being setup proberly.....

Dan
Not posting again this morning - getting ready to go out on a meet (that was arranged on Scoobynet)

NotoriousREV

I originally whinged about the introduction of the the Google ads, now I don't notice them but the change to the new software for the BBS has been the best move.

The old format was definately tired and lacking in function and this software addresses that issue and will no doubt add new features.

Yes, the lack of search is irritating but it'll come back and then I'll get chance to update all the useful old bookmarks I had.

I still think that the whole thing should have moved to a pair of Linux servers (one for web serving the other for db handling) but then if Simon and Shaun aren't comfortable supporting that then it's up to them as it's them that have to fix it when it's broken.

It even seems more stable now and I may well become a Plus member in the near future...

As for the community being a shadow of it's former self, I think thats a load of tosh, the atmosphere seems a little more tolerant and friendlier to me since the change.

Out of interest, Buzzer, do you have a proxy server at work? I do where I'm working now and the board is unusable, but the company also has the worlds slowest internet connection.

StickyMicky

no but SDB will once hes sorted out the settings
didnt you know this????

Pete The Biker

Just to stick my oar in for a minute..........

For me (broadband access) there was nothing wrong with the 'old' Scoobynet - no delays in screen updates that I remember, but with the benefit of the Search function and the VIP list.

Maybe I missed any announcement of forthcoming changes in the service (although ScoobyNet is my homepage, and I looked at it every day), but I would have appreciated advance warning of the changes, why they were required, and how they would affect the service being provided. At least then I might have appreciated why I seemed to be losing features (even if only temporarily) to fix a service which didn't seem to be broken.

The Search function problem seems to have been an underestimation of the user requirements versus the software/hardware capability. It also seems to be one where 'deadline dates' for resolving the problem are constantly being put back.

As regards the VIP list, I have read the guidance notes, but haven't been able to get it work (I just get Access Not Authorised, or some such message. Can anyone explain?

I am sure the guys are doing all they can to get this new service up and running and make it better than before, and are as frustrated as anyone at the problems being faced, and the flack that they are getting.

That said, maybe a little PR might have smoothed the way?



Pete The Biker

SCOSaltire

I think scoobynet has been changed for the better.
At first i was like 'woooo, wtf is going on - i cant find my way around'

all the additionaly functionality - using more features of the browser - had me wary on what to click!

However, once i learnt more about it - its so much easier to use - and it looks better!

Better features: the quick reply, tooltips, original poster and last poster - my favourite changes.

I bet the seach will be ace - a proper search!!
Creating a full text index on all the posts takes time but the results will be better.

Moving data of the size of scoobynet onto another software package is a major task. very very very major.
I think its gone really smoothly.
Ive moved less data in other systems with big problems.

the guys who have been doing this are working on a live popular site - i bet they will need a holiday after it!

its good to give them feedback

theres always gonna be mixed views

once the usual features are back (really miss not having the images displayed in member gallery; search, as i want to find the best stuff to put in a Karcher washer) then i am sure that most people will think scoobynet is better.

if u have not adjusted to the interface yet - then perhaps u would feel that the community spirit isnt what it used to be. It is still there tho, perhaps even enhanced imho.

I have to say - I dont see half as many pointless, argumentative, trouble maker posts/threads. Much better!!!

The powers that be take critism, so they must also take the praise for this.

If you have problems in using the interface, just ask for advice. I am sure that the comminity will help u.

COF139

I have been a member here since 1999, and have posted infrequently. I was certainly put off as the popularity of the car & site increased, and the type of contribution posted deteriorated in some cases.

Any proposal that may help keep the site a constructive place to seek opinion and gather information must be a good move.

tiggers

Yeah it's what's known as a tongue in cheek comment following some recent exchanges in another thread hence the winking emoticons, but don't worry about it and anyway just how long ...... no better not go there again.

All the best,

tiggers.