talizman

iTrader: (1)

I read in Autocar today that an owner of a non-EU STI 8 which was sourced from Malta (presumably Motorpoint's) tried to have IM fit the Prodrive Performance Pack to his 53 plate STI 8, however they point blank refused.

They expressed concerns over the car being non EU and being unable to uphold the PPP warranty.

The guy apparently offered to get his own independent warranty, but they still wouldn't sell/fit the PPP to him.

They go on about being unwilling to support non-EU cars as it contradicts their argument for not sourcing their cars from the same places.

I'd never heard of this before, as you'd think that they wouldn't want to knock back a quick £2,000 sale but obviously they are, in order to make a poiint.

greasemonkey

"53 plate STi8"? Don't you mean an MY03 STi Type UK aka STi9?

This is nothing new. The PPP has only ever been available to UK cars, or indeed EU imports on which IM have taken over the warranty.

One of the whole points of the PPP is that it comes with a Subaru UK warranty. They're obviously not prepared to waver on that, and given the possible consequences I can't really blame them.

16vmarc

+ im sure someones going to mention ECUTEK!!!!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

No, cos it's not a Type UK, thats the problem!

I was going to call it the STI 9 but IIRC someone mentioned that the PPP for the STI 7/8 is different from the STI 9, and I didn't want to confuse the issue in case people thought that it was due to the different variants of PPP as opposed to the actual base car....

greasemonkey

PPP's for the different model years are different. That's why it'd be a lot more understandable if folk started using model year and UK/EU/Japan etc. instead of this ridiculous "STi7/8/9/10" scheme which means different things to different people!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I think to the vast majority of people, the STi 7/8/9 scheme the the most simple way of defining them, and to most it means the same thing.

Only those very few people with in depth knowledge fully understand the differences between MY/Version/PPP etc etc.

For all intents and purposes, an STi 7 is the first bugeye STi, which IIRC would be a MY01/02 with 2 different variants of PPP.

An STi 8 would be a MY02/03 onward "blob eye" STi with a standardised PPP.

The most recent PPP's have been fettled slightly to produce slightly more power or at least to get as close to the quoted power figure that the sales literature quotes. (STi 9? with the square boot keyhole?)

As far as I can see, you can't go far wrong if you quote the year of the car and the version, hence my "53 plate STi 8 comment"

I don't know many folk on SN that would try to dissect it further in order to complicate matters even more!! (barring yourself GM)

greasemonkey

Nope. This is the Scoobynet consensus mistake, true, but it's still a mistake. The MY01 STi (which wasn't available in the UK or Europe) is the "7", while the MY02 STi (which was) is the "8". The "square boot lock" MY04 cars are, if you're going to use a number, 10's.

Says who?

Neither do I. "8" isn't the version, it's a number somebody made up. If you tell someone you've got an MY03 Euro-market STi, everybody knows exactly what you've got.

If you walk into a garage without your car and start ordering bits for an "STi8", the guy behind the counter will either ask you WTF you're talking about, or he'll twig that you're an SN user and ask you the model year. This "8" business (the way it seems to be used by most of Scoobynet) causes complication, not the reverse.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Like I said Greasemonkey, it is possible to dissect things too much and cause undue complication...

The vast majority of Subaru owners use the STI 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 numbering system and it works for them.

Whether it is technically correct or not seems to be your bugbear and not theirs.

If I say STI 8, folk know what I am talking about.

If someone talks about a STi 5 Type R, I know what they are talking about.

What is the problem?

As for your "says who" comment...

Why not post a poll and ask people to describe an STi 8 and they will describe exactly what I have done.

So, if "8" isn't the version, but "7" is, then what version is mine (MY03 Type UK)?

salsa-king

GM.. give it a rest!!! lol

Sti7.... MY01 Jap Bug eye. yep.... Sti7 Uk..MY02 (we didn't get the sti7 in the first year)

if you say to someone you have a STi8... the normal ppl with think Nu shape Blob eye!
If you had a MY03 JAP car that is classed in Japan as a Sti8.. fare enough.. but to those that don't know.. you would have to explain it to them.. so your better to tell them you haver a Sti7 shape car!

Sti1-6... classic shape
Sti7... Bug Eye
Sti8... Blob eye

no matter how you try to convet ppls thinking.. you'll still be on your own IMO lol


back to topic....... Do't go PPP ona non EU car.. go Tec-3


Phil

want to come to Scooby Ball 3 Email me at info@neoquip.com for more info

mutant_matt

LOL - Grease, not everybody is as easily convinced as I was it would seem I have to say, the more you argue your POV, the more I agree with you. Whilst I have a good idea what people mean when they say "STi 8", I do start to wonder which model they are actually talking about now that there are several Blob-eyed Scoob models out there.....

I agree that not using the STi7/8/9 thing does in the end reduce confusion.

Back to the original topic, the original European STi of which the UK version IM decided to call "Type UK", is of course, exactly the same as the EU version, with a silly extra pink badge on the boot In IM's original press release for this car, it was actually entitled "European Spec WRX STi breaks cover" and the fact that a car has come from Malta should really have no bearing on the situation. IM signed a cross boarder warranty agreement which states that they will carry out warranty work on any Subaru (theoretically JDM too) and pass the claim onto the originating importer. So IM do not pay for or support the warranties for any cars they didn't supply anyway so them not willing to supply a PPP to a non-UK supplied car is IMHO just a way of trying to make it difficult for non-UK purchased car owners, in the short sighted and mistaken presumption that this will make people think twice about buying an import next time.

If you actually challenged this, you would probably find that they are breaking EU law on restriction of trade, but you would have to be quite determined and probably have to go to court. They are probably counting (probably correctly in most cases) on you not being bothered enough. Obviously, you are perfectly able to purchase the PPP via your originating importer but would technically have to take the car back to them to get it fitted (unless you can figure out a way round that ).

Matt.

greasemonkey

Teehee! Difference there is that you were prepared to stop and think about it!

This is exactly my point. When someone says they've got an "STi8", that could mean (depending on which version of the "numbers" they're using) that they've got an MY02 Japanese market car, an MY03 Jap car, an MY02 UK/Eu car, or an MY03 UK/Eu car. There was even someone banging on here the other day about how he's picking up his brand new MY04 STi8 next week!

With this silly numbering system in use, the only way to be certain what anyone's got is to ask them what market and model year it is, so ultimately it's simpler/quicker to cut out this "8" rubbish and just say it's an "MY03 STi UK", or whatever. Everybody seems happy enough describing UK Turbos by their model year/market, so why is it so hard with the STi's?

On Scoobynet, some of the time, yes. In the real world, no. Like I said, try walking into a Subaru dealer and telling them you've got an STi8.

Exactly. You wouldn't call it an STi 4 Type R, would you? That's what you're really doing with this "8" nonsense. It's a shame this mistake has been adopted en-masse by Scoobynetters, but it's still a mistake.

Incidentally, how did you identify your old car? Wasn't it an MY99 UK Turbo?

I wasn't taking the p*ss, it's a legitimate question. I'd really like to know who's keeping score on this, as different SNetters define the numbers different ways.
With the MY04 cars out (some people are still calling them STi8's, some people are calling them STi9's, when they're "really" STi10's), it's only going to get worse.

Ask them to describe an STi7, STi9 and and STi10 while you're at it and you'll prove my point, as you'll get a multitude of different answers/reasons why.
At the end of the day you won't get unanymity, and in any case, it doesn't matter what "Scoobynet" as an entity thinks, it's the manufacturers who decide what their cars are called.

chrisp

After the 6 then MY is the only really unambigious way of calling them. Part of the issue was that after the 6s the exchange rate went up and then the UK got WRX and STis of their own.

So for me its 1-6 as usual then use MY. Actually even Subaru dont use the 7/8/9/10 designation and they are known as new age. Or I, II or III now

Ex_Pug

I've allways heald the same opinion as GM on this as well. This 8/9/10 business is Scoobynet folk law only, and completely confuses people coming into the forum for the first time. How and why anyone would argue that using the year of manufacture is more complicated, escapes me.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

So, according to your examples....

Lets take a MY02 STi Type UK.......

Is this car a bugeye, or a "blobeye" (as I have heard it referred to)????

Answer is, could be either, as 2002 was the changeover year from the bugly to the new model, so this way of defining them is ambiguous also!

You could have simplified this by stating that an STi 8 is a MY02/03 STi without banging on about Jap/UK/Eu etc etc. Simple.

Quite simply, UK cars have always been referred to by their MY as thats what differentiates the version.
STi's have always been referred to by their current "version"

Eg. MY98 UK Turbo or STi Version 4. Same year different cars and ways of describing them.


I'm pretty sure that Ian @ Stan Palmers is familiar with the terminology


My car was a MY00 UK Turbo, purely because the UK market has never been differentiated by "versions" unlike the STi's!

Anyway, we can split hairs till we are blue in the face (I'm already there!)

Back on topic...... my original post was expressing my surprise that parts/accessories will not be sold to owners of cars sourced from outwith the EU!

chrisp

You cant get round the fact:

STi 1 = MY95
STi 2 = MY96
STi 3 = MY97
STi 4 = MY98
STi 5 = MY99
STi 6 = MY00
STi 7 = MY01
STi 8 = MY02
STi 9 = MY03
STi 10 = MY04

chrisp

With it being an non eu car its IM choice to sell or not. Any vendor can choose to serve you or not.

greasemonkey

Yes, let's.

The MY02 STi Type UK is a bugeye.

No it couldn't. All the MY02 cars are bugeyes. The facelift came in with 2003 model year.

No it isn't. The model year is totally unambiguous. There's no such thing as an MY02 blobeye for example, there's no such thing as an MY03 bugeye, and there's no such thing as an MY03 car with a square boot lock. Come to think of it there's no such thing as an MY00 bugeye either (don't forget that the changeover from classic to bug took place in 2000).

What the f**k is an "MY02/MY03 STi"? How can an "STi 8" correctly be both an '02 *and* an '03 car when an MY02 car is a bugeye and an MY03 a blobeye? Do you see what you're trying to say there? They're not the same car!

Eh? You claimed earlier on that the model year was ambiguous, yet now you claim it's acceptable for the UK cars. Which one is is it? You can't have it both ways!

Wrong. The STi's were differentiated by their version number up to the version 6 (and the version corresponds with the model year anyway). When the new shape cars came in, Subaru stopped officially using the numbers.

The problem didn't start when folk naturally decided to carry on using numbers, the problem is that two (or more) different ways of defining the numbers came about. The correct one is as quoted by Chris above. Unfortunately the one that has become commonly used on Scoobynet is just plain wrong, and the reasons variously given to justify it simply don't make sense in fact.

The STi's were only differentiated by version up to the 6. After that, people have made it up as they went along. The only logical version is the one I'm referencing, and that's also the one used by both Prodrive and Subaru when referring to the rallycars.

IM can choose to sell (or not) their products under whatever conditions they choose. If they're using this as a way to "encourage" people to buy official UK market cars, it's entirely their option.

chrisp

LOL this one could run and run.

Due to the number of models and types a Subaru dealer will probably ask for your reg plate and/or your chassis number so they can find your car and make sure you get the correct part.

tiggers

I'm with Greasemonkey on this one. I have a MY03 STI Type UK and it has been referred to by two separate people at the same dealer as an STI8 and an STI9 so which is it?

Anyway the Type UK should just be called Subaru Impreza STI Type UK WRITHOPCAWSWC

WRITHOPCAWSWC - "worst ride in the history of performance cars and won't start when cold"

tiggers.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Especially when GM is involved!!!

greasemonkey

Exactly. Imagine you cracked your headlight and phoned up to order a spare. The first guy picked up the phone and gave the order for an "STi8 left headlight" to the second guy. Would the right part be waiting for you when you went to pick it up?

Still, the way things are at the moment, you can use this to secretly identify Scoobynet users. If someone walks up to you and says "Wow, nice STi8 m8!", you can cut out the introductions and just ask what their username is!

I think that should be WRITHOPCAWSWCOIYLIFAW.

"worst ride in the history of performance cars and won't start when cold, or if you leave it for a week"

scooby L

I've just spent my whole lunch break reading this one thread..! very entertaining.

Appologies to GM, from now on I will refer to my ST... opps my MY03 STI/Eu as it's correct name. I hope all my previous ambiguous postings are forgiven.

Respect to Talisman, you put up a very good argument and echoed all my views.. May be Subaru should copy.......ermm......mitzi....... and badge their STI's with the model number thus simplifying the whole version confusion.

Good idea?? (flame suit on)

mutant_matt

The thing is, currently Mitsubishi don't have any Evo's other than the JDM spec models. Perhaps they will have the same problem when they have the JDM and EU versions of the same car being sold? Even worse, if they ever manage to make an Evo which can be sold in the US, they may have (like Subaru now), three different model lines.....

Matt

clarence

Mitsubishi actually have 3 different Evo specs - LHD US spec (271bhp, 5 speed gearbox), LHD & RHD EU spec (265ps, 5 speed gearbox), & RHD JDM spec. Dunno what will happen to the Evo lineup in UK, when JDM Evos get upgraded to become Evo MR. Seems the 265ps Evo is already available in UK for 24k.

greasemonkey

They used to - up to the 6. Back then, STi's were only available in Japan, as indeed were the Lancer Evos, and the whole "evolution" thing was related to the homologation requirements of Group A and Group N rallying.

The situation changed a little bit when the new shape Impreza came out, as Subaru decided to sell STi branded cars across the world. Rather than sell the same car across the world (as Mitsi do with the Evo), the UK/European (and eventually US) market STi's were considerably different to the Japanese versions, it seems Subaru deliberately stopped using the numbers to avoid creating the impression that the STi you buy in Japan is the same as the one you can buy in the UK or USA.

This is slightly different to Mitsubishi, where the Evo VIII's you can buy in different parts of the world are literally the Japanese market car modified as simply as possible to comply with local legislation and fuel.

As Matt says, the Japanese, UK/Euro, and US market STi's are now really three separate and distinct model lines, with their own detail specifications and development direction, and this is another reason why it's slightly misleading to try and lump them all together in the same "number" scheme.

jhrfc1

Back to the original topic, why did the guy want to fit a PPP to a car with no IM warranty anyway? Go for one of the cheaper performance upgrades.
Could it be he'd use the PPP and certificate to try and get a purchaser to infer it was a UK car?

greasemonkey

It's certainly one of the possible explanations. As you say there are more cost-effective upgrades if the need for the warranty isn't an issue, but it may simply be he thought he'd get a free Prodrive sticker.

mutant_matt

Bear in mind that just because the warranty isn't supplied by IM, doesn't mean he can mod it anyway he likes and keep his warranty. It's the same, just dealing with a different importer.

For example, if he had an engine blow up and had say, Nitros, full decat, running 2 bar boost with a Superchip and IM/dealer spotted this, they would probably pass this info onto the originating importer (who foots the bill (at least initially)) who would probably deny the claim just as IM would.

Most importers will uphold the warranty even if it's had the PPP fitted in the same way that IM do. That is more likely the reason?

One other thing, AFAIK, these days you don't get a PPP certificate so that surely isn't the reason?

Matt