need to get in contact with a 22B type UK owner.
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20 January 2004, 07:29 AM
#16
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The parts are not available through Subaru UK or Prodrive..I've been trying for ages 
And Scoobyboy...please don't send out chassis numbers to all and sundry...I would be pretty pissed to find tonnes of parts ordered against my UK car Subaru UK have been known to stop supplying parts to cars whose chassis numbers have been used excessively for parts (RB5 driving light covers spring to mind)
Rgds
Cman
[Edited by Old_Fart - 1/20/2004 8:31:54 AM]
And Scoobyboy...please don't send out chassis numbers to all and sundry...I would be pretty pissed to find tonnes of parts ordered against my UK car
Subaru UK have been known to stop supplying parts to cars whose chassis numbers have been used excessively for parts (RB5 driving light covers spring to mind)Rgds
Cman
[Edited by Old_Fart - 1/20/2004 8:31:54 AM]
20 January 2004, 08:07 AM
#17
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Sonic,
yes it is legal.
there are two legal provisions.
first of all, you have the right to repair anything you have bought, and it will not be an infringement or it will be a permitted infringement of intellectual property rights to make the parts needed.
It would be questionable to create them and sell them for a profit to other individuals, but since the parts arent purchaseable from the holders of the rights (in this case prodrive or subaru) I don't see what they are going to come after us for. Could even sell them a few for their parts bin!!
Second, the most likely right they would have it a registered design right. If they attempted to come after me on this basis, I would have their design registration revoked on the basis it should never have bee granted, as registrations are not available if the product falls within a must fit or must match exclusion.
In this case there is a hole wich must be filled and there is literally only one way these things can look.
If you are interested, the two cases are the ford motor company design registration case on spare parts for their cars, and the british leyland exhaust spares case.
yes it is legal.
there are two legal provisions.
first of all, you have the right to repair anything you have bought, and it will not be an infringement or it will be a permitted infringement of intellectual property rights to make the parts needed.
It would be questionable to create them and sell them for a profit to other individuals, but since the parts arent purchaseable from the holders of the rights (in this case prodrive or subaru) I don't see what they are going to come after us for. Could even sell them a few for their parts bin!!
Second, the most likely right they would have it a registered design right. If they attempted to come after me on this basis, I would have their design registration revoked on the basis it should never have bee granted, as registrations are not available if the product falls within a must fit or must match exclusion.
In this case there is a hole wich must be filled and there is literally only one way these things can look.
If you are interested, the two cases are the ford motor company design registration case on spare parts for their cars, and the british leyland exhaust spares case.
20 January 2004, 08:35 AM
#19
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makes no difference chuck,
its not about the purpose, its about the item.
once the car is mine i can make what I like for it, if I happen to make something to fit in a hole in the car which looks identical to something they have made already for the same purpose, then that product is the only shape it could have been to fit the hole. Therefore its design was dictated by the shape it had to fit, regardless of whether I owned a 22b or not. Thats how companies can make and sell pattern exhausts and body panels for cars.
And then there is the non derogation from grant (right to repair). That is to stop people who sell you a car from having the monopoly on the spare parts industry.
the fact that the car is outside its intended market is of no relevance at all.
and by the way, there are fog light wiring looms behind the blanks, and a switch is provided even if the lamp unit isn't but in the light of the above, its a moot point.
its not about the purpose, its about the item.
once the car is mine i can make what I like for it, if I happen to make something to fit in a hole in the car which looks identical to something they have made already for the same purpose, then that product is the only shape it could have been to fit the hole. Therefore its design was dictated by the shape it had to fit, regardless of whether I owned a 22b or not. Thats how companies can make and sell pattern exhausts and body panels for cars.
And then there is the non derogation from grant (right to repair). That is to stop people who sell you a car from having the monopoly on the spare parts industry.
the fact that the car is outside its intended market is of no relevance at all.
and by the way, there are fog light wiring looms behind the blanks, and a switch is provided even if the lamp unit isn't but in the light of the above, its a moot point.
20 January 2004, 12:24 PM
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Am not a patent lawyer, am a patent attorney.
difference is my qualification only relates to patents. In order to achieve that, we are required to study copyright, design right, unregistered design right and trademarks.
Patent attorney status is geographical. I am waiting ont he last results for me to be qualified in the UK, this result arrives in june. There are a different set of exams for european qualification which need to be passed independently.
I sit these in march.
In order to practise as a technical assistant (pre qualified patent agent), the industry demands a degree in a science or engineering, in my case physics. This will decide which area of patents I will go into, and in my case its the motor industry. I have friends who handle biotechnology and others who handle chemical inventions such as washing powders and processes for making such.
This is obviously a minimum of three years, but phds are becoming almost the norm (two in the cases of some of my friends!).
Once you have a degree, you have to train for 3.5 years before you can sit the european exams but there is no minimum for the british.
Most take the british exams after the european as two european exams grant you exemption from the british equivalents.
very few people pass all the exams the first time round (I passed 5 of 8), most can expect to have the exams out the way after about 3 years of trying since you can only take them once a year.
So it takes roughly 7 years to be fully qualified in england and europe after you leave university.
I know of several people who have taken between 10 and 14 years to pass.
Not sure why you want to know this but am happy to point yuo i the right direction if you are interested in looking into it properly.
conversely, if you do a law degree, you have one year of lpc then two years articles (no exams) before you can be a solicitor who specialises in patents and intellectual property, or an extra year of cpe if your degree was not law.
difference is my qualification only relates to patents. In order to achieve that, we are required to study copyright, design right, unregistered design right and trademarks.
Patent attorney status is geographical. I am waiting ont he last results for me to be qualified in the UK, this result arrives in june. There are a different set of exams for european qualification which need to be passed independently.
I sit these in march.
In order to practise as a technical assistant (pre qualified patent agent), the industry demands a degree in a science or engineering, in my case physics. This will decide which area of patents I will go into, and in my case its the motor industry. I have friends who handle biotechnology and others who handle chemical inventions such as washing powders and processes for making such.
This is obviously a minimum of three years, but phds are becoming almost the norm (two in the cases of some of my friends!).
Once you have a degree, you have to train for 3.5 years before you can sit the european exams but there is no minimum for the british.
Most take the british exams after the european as two european exams grant you exemption from the british equivalents.
very few people pass all the exams the first time round (I passed 5 of 8), most can expect to have the exams out the way after about 3 years of trying since you can only take them once a year.
So it takes roughly 7 years to be fully qualified in england and europe after you leave university.
I know of several people who have taken between 10 and 14 years to pass.
Not sure why you want to know this but am happy to point yuo i the right direction if you are interested in looking into it properly.
conversely, if you do a law degree, you have one year of lpc then two years articles (no exams) before you can be a solicitor who specialises in patents and intellectual property, or an extra year of cpe if your degree was not law.
20 January 2004, 12:48 PM
#24
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I'm an access student at the moment and I'm just looking at all possible course and career options open to me. Incidentally I have been thinking about a Physics degree but not sure exactly which course to do.
I would probably be quite loaded right now if my Grandfather had thought about taking out a patent on his air powered sander which he made 30 years before anyone else had made one.
I am interested in finding out more on the subject and it would be great if you could point me in the right direction.
I would probably be quite loaded right now if my Grandfather had thought about taking out a patent on his air powered sander which he made 30 years before anyone else had made one.
I am interested in finding out more on the subject and it would be great if you could point me in the right direction.
20 January 2004, 12:54 PM
#25
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don't worry about looking back on what could have been!
everyone thinks they will make it rich from patents but event he best ideas don't yield anything like what people expect.
The hardest work even with a patent is to get thing off the ground.
Most people think that being granted a patent effectively means its a good idea, but this is nonsense.
I tend to discourage most people off the street who come to me with an idea as chasing patents is a very expensive business. It has merit but you need to have a business plan in place and contacts who can help you either manufacture yourself or get existing manufacturers to listen to you.
If patents is a serious consideration to you then you really need to be at the top of your course, you need to have had top grades all through gcse and a level, followed by a very good degree preferably from oxbridge. (not me, I used nepetism!).
In hindsight, an engineering degreee would have been a better option, and don't mistake the mistake I made of going somewhere just to leave home for a while, go where the course is good.
I was too quick to turn my back on UCL which was by far the better course, simply because didn't want to live in london at that point! oh well. and here is me telling you not to look back!
Paul,
am glad I can make you laugh.
everyone thinks they will make it rich from patents but event he best ideas don't yield anything like what people expect.
The hardest work even with a patent is to get thing off the ground.
Most people think that being granted a patent effectively means its a good idea, but this is nonsense.
I tend to discourage most people off the street who come to me with an idea as chasing patents is a very expensive business. It has merit but you need to have a business plan in place and contacts who can help you either manufacture yourself or get existing manufacturers to listen to you.
If patents is a serious consideration to you then you really need to be at the top of your course, you need to have had top grades all through gcse and a level, followed by a very good degree preferably from oxbridge. (not me, I used nepetism!).
In hindsight, an engineering degreee would have been a better option, and don't mistake the mistake I made of going somewhere just to leave home for a while, go where the course is good.
I was too quick to turn my back on UCL which was by far the better course, simply because didn't want to live in london at that point! oh well. and here is me telling you not to look back!
Paul,
am glad I can make you laugh.
20 January 2004, 12:58 PM
#26
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forgot to add, if you need specific help in what to do to become a patent agent/attorney, feel free to email me. adam@22b.com, make sure you put something relevant in the title as I tend to bulk delete all the junk mail that comes in when I am unfamiliar with the author.
20 January 2004, 08:46 PM
#27
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lawyer?? my missus is 
[Edited by scooby-si - 1/20/2004 8:48:01 PM]
[Edited by scooby-si - 1/20/2004 8:48:01 PM]
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