Beginning to doubt Scooby ownership ..
16 January 2004, 03:41 PM
#1
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Just needing a few re-assuring words as I'm beginning to question the ownership of my Scoob 
I've a classic MY00 wagon with H&S DP+BB. Bear with me I'll get to the point eventually 
In the next 9 months it's going to cost me about 1800 quid without anything going wrong. One 52.5K service in which I'm needing front discs and pads, one 60K service which is plugs+cambelt (MY00) and another years insurance
I drive about 12 miles to work every day and take various routes, some mostly B roads, some dual-carriageway, some free flowing, some traffic jams.
My car is running great, my boost gauge shows me I'm running about 13-ish PSI in 5th gear ... it feels quick. I am running on 3 month old 215/40/17 Toyos and have had the bumpsteer mod done so I 'expect' this car to be quick and handle well.
Anyhow I've followed a few cars home in the last few days. Grand Jeep Cherokee (big V8), Mundano TD, Saab 9-3 Aero and 2 BMW 3series (a 318 coupe and 320 saloon) ..
.. thing is I was driving the car to a limit where I felt comfortable (in damp conditions), any more and I would have felt as though I was sliding around a bit and all of the cars above maintaned either the same distance in front/or behind. Sure I could gain a wee bit along the straights but not as much as you'd think.
I overtook the 318 up a dual carriageway hill today and maybe put 50 m on it in about 1/2 mile and that was it ?
So since I'm supposed to be driving a 'legendary' car, paying through the nose for it I'm wondering what's the point since I could 'almost' drive as quickly in a cheap to run/maintain Turbo Diesel.
I suspect most of the replies will say driver training but I've grown up on country roads, been on track a few times and although I'm no Schumacher feel quite competant and peddling around the twisties.
I love the car, its fun but at the mo I feel I could run a 320D, be almost as quick, be quids in and with the 5yr service pack have more money in my pocket each month.
Have things really moved on that far in handling/performance of modern cars since 2000. The gap seems to have closed massively.
Anybody care to cheer me up?
Doofus.
P.S. Likely my drive home will put the ol' scoob back on a pedestal.
I've a classic MY00 wagon with H&S DP+BB. Bear with me I'll get to the point eventually In the next 9 months it's going to cost me about 1800 quid without anything going wrong. One 52.5K service in which I'm needing front discs and pads, one 60K service which is plugs+cambelt (MY00) and another years insurance
I drive about 12 miles to work every day and take various routes, some mostly B roads, some dual-carriageway, some free flowing, some traffic jams.
My car is running great, my boost gauge shows me I'm running about 13-ish PSI in 5th gear ... it feels quick. I am running on 3 month old 215/40/17 Toyos and have had the bumpsteer mod done so I 'expect' this car to be quick and handle well.
Anyhow I've followed a few cars home in the last few days. Grand Jeep Cherokee (big V8), Mundano TD, Saab 9-3 Aero and 2 BMW 3series (a 318 coupe and 320 saloon) ..
.. thing is I was driving the car to a limit where I felt comfortable (in damp conditions), any more and I would have felt as though I was sliding around a bit and all of the cars above maintaned either the same distance in front/or behind. Sure I could gain a wee bit along the straights but not as much as you'd think.
I overtook the 318 up a dual carriageway hill today and maybe put 50 m on it in about 1/2 mile and that was it ?
So since I'm supposed to be driving a 'legendary' car, paying through the nose for it I'm wondering what's the point since I could 'almost' drive as quickly in a cheap to run/maintain Turbo Diesel.
I suspect most of the replies will say driver training but I've grown up on country roads, been on track a few times and although I'm no Schumacher feel quite competant and peddling around the twisties.
I love the car, its fun but at the mo I feel I could run a 320D, be almost as quick, be quids in and with the 5yr service pack have more money in my pocket each month.
Have things really moved on that far in handling/performance of modern cars since 2000. The gap seems to have closed massively.
Anybody care to cheer me up?
Doofus.
P.S. Likely my drive home will put the ol' scoob back on a pedestal.
16 January 2004, 03:48 PM
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I felt the same about two years ago - sold the UK300 and got an Audi A4 Quattro - sold the A4 got a Focus ST170. Sold the ST170 and got a STi8.
These others cars might be able to keep up but they aint half as much fun in getting there
These others cars might be able to keep up but they aint half as much fun in getting there
16 January 2004, 03:56 PM
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Discs - £150 from Godspeed.
Pads - £45 from GGR.
Cambelt - £65 from GGR.
Do it all yourself - no charge.
Insurance - can't help there really.
Done all the above on my STI3.
Depends if you want a service stamp for a few hundred quid each time.
Spend the rest on bits you really want..
Kevin.
[Edited by Kevin Groat - 1/16/2004 3:58:10 PM]
Pads - £45 from GGR.
Cambelt - £65 from GGR.
Do it all yourself - no charge.
Insurance - can't help there really.
Done all the above on my STI3.
Depends if you want a service stamp for a few hundred quid each time.
Spend the rest on bits you really want..
Kevin.
[Edited by Kevin Groat - 1/16/2004 3:58:10 PM]
16 January 2004, 04:18 PM
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Thanks guys
.. but I suppose I am a wee bit on the lazy side and my scoob has an unblemished FSSH. OK so I'm just out of the warranty period but maybe a bit old school and want to maintain the FSSH .. so independant garages and parts are a bit off limits.
A bit blinkered I agree but saving myself a few hundred pounds on parts/servicing isn't going to stop me thinking about why I'm running the Scoob when I can go almost as quick in something that will costs mere beans to run?
I have a nagging doubt that these Toyo's are crap in the damp conditions but I doubt I'll be a Scoob owner next time around
Just a bit disillusioned when I'm supposed to be driving a 'legend'.
Doofus.
.. but I suppose I am a wee bit on the lazy side and my scoob has an unblemished FSSH. OK so I'm just out of the warranty period but maybe a bit old school and want to maintain the FSSH .. so independant garages and parts are a bit off limits.
A bit blinkered I agree
but saving myself a few hundred pounds on parts/servicing isn't going to stop me thinking about why I'm running the Scoob when I can go almost as quick in something that will costs mere beans to run?I have a nagging doubt that these Toyo's are crap in the damp conditions but I doubt I'll be a Scoob owner next time around
Just a bit disillusioned when I'm supposed to be driving a 'legend'.
Doofus.
16 January 2004, 04:27 PM
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Well sell it... sow your wild oats for a while, and then see if you want to come back...
At the end of the day, do you enjoy driving it? You didn't buy it for financial reasons, did you?
At the end of the day, do you enjoy driving it? You didn't buy it for financial reasons, did you?
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16 January 2004, 04:42 PM
#8
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Good point ScrappyDoo ... no it wasn't a carefully considered financial purpose .. may as we have just bought a new house and our 2 yr old is getting more expensive by the second the money aspect is a bit more to the fore at the moment
I suppose what I'm saying is I don't mind paying more for servicing, insurance etc IF and that's IF .. I'm getting a car that comfortably out handles/accelerates something a bit more mundane .. at the moment that's not how it seems
I can see a 330D (if I can afford) it in the driveway next time.
Or a 2.5TD quattro Audi for the nice weather here in Aberdeen
Doofus.
... no it wasn't a carefully considered financial purpose .. may as we have just bought a new house and our 2 yr old is getting more expensive by the second the money aspect is a bit more to the fore at the moment I suppose what I'm saying is I don't mind paying more for servicing, insurance etc IF and that's IF .. I'm getting a car that comfortably out handles/accelerates something a bit more mundane .. at the moment that's not how it seems
I can see a 330D (if I can afford) it in the driveway next time.
Or a 2.5TD quattro Audi for the nice weather here in Aberdeen
Doofus.
16 January 2004, 04:49 PM
#9
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Doofus...
Did some sums recently mate and mine has cost (inc fuel but not depreciation )£22,800 to run for 26 months (inc a blown engine and gearbox)
Made me think about it a bit
Did some sums recently mate and mine has cost (inc fuel but not depreciation
)£22,800 to run for 26 months (inc a blown engine and gearbox) Made me think about it a bit
16 January 2004, 04:49 PM
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I very much doubt your as close to the scooby's limit as you think you are. IMHO it has a 2-stage limit: 1st you start to feel her riggle around a bit and sure enough this is with little speed or committment and not any more impressive than a normal saloon. The 2nd limit is where you suck you b@lls into your throat and accelerate a LOT harder and through that first barrier and make the 4wd earn its keep. The limit beyond this is where she leaves the road very hard and very fast and you die so its not to be pushed THAT far.
I had mines sliding about coming off a roundabout on part throttle at 20mph. I could have taken the same roundabout again 2secs later at 40mph if I picked my line and just mashed it.
I had mines sliding about coming off a roundabout on part throttle at 20mph. I could have taken the same roundabout again 2secs later at 40mph if I picked my line and just mashed it.
16 January 2004, 04:56 PM
#11
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know what you mean doofus, i've had this same thing happen to me!
my scoob seems crap overtaking stuff up hills and alot of lesser powered cars ain't exactly been left for dead either! i think alot of my experiences are down to me not going beyond the point i feel safe pushing the car to and maybe the guy in front or chasing me is just driving like a loon to keep pace.
i'm just gonna cheat now to keep ahead of the competion, i'm getting it remapped monday now keep up rep man!!
my scoob seems crap overtaking stuff up hills and alot of lesser powered cars ain't exactly been left for dead either! i think alot of my experiences are down to me not going beyond the point i feel safe pushing the car to and maybe the guy in front or chasing me is just driving like a loon to keep pace.
i'm just gonna cheat now to keep ahead of the competion, i'm getting it remapped monday
now keep up rep man!!
16 January 2004, 04:58 PM
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Doofus, this must be a wind up, or you are a really slow driver, or not prepared to drive fast on a public road.
2 of the cars you mention, the Mondeo TDCi and the 320D are owned by friends of mine and although have fairly decent pace are no match for a well driven Impreza. Even a sport would keep ahead of the Mondeo!
2 of the cars you mention, the Mondeo TDCi and the 320D are owned by friends of mine and although have fairly decent pace are no match for a well driven Impreza. Even a sport would keep ahead of the Mondeo!
16 January 2004, 05:02 PM
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Nice to see lots of replies from the Scots lads here 
SiPie .. errrm, I have nothing to say to you that'll make you feel better, that's comfortably a nice shiny new MY03 WRX+PPP money .. have you sold yours yet and whats it in the pipeline for your next motor fella?
.. one one hand that's saying to me my worries about costs are daft .. on the other maybe my engine will blow up a few times soon (40K miles) and I should get rid of it just in case .. hmmm.
SaxoBoy .. you usually make sense and you may be correct. I have an aversion to going backwards into trees and have no confidence in these Toyo boots in the damp/cold. I think I'm maybe heading into bends a bit quick, braking hard, throwing the balance out so tend to tiptoe round. Think I'll try and go in a bit slower and progressively wind in the power. Doesn't help that the standard lights in the dark are as much use as my cheap torch even with Blue Vision bulbs.
I see you too are 'getting' rid. What have you planned next?
DJ140, no wind up. I am quite happy to have a good blast when I feel it is safe for me and others to do so. You must be a driving god then .. I'm only commenting on how my scoob feels at the mo and a few others on this thread seem to agree.
Lets see how tonight's trip home is.
Doofus.
SiPie .. errrm, I have nothing to say to you that'll make you feel better, that's comfortably a nice shiny new MY03 WRX+PPP money
.. have you sold yours yet and whats it in the pipeline for your next motor fella?.. one one hand that's saying to me my worries about costs are daft .. on the other maybe my engine will blow up a few times soon (40K miles) and I should get rid of it just in case .. hmmm.
SaxoBoy .. you usually make sense and you may be correct. I have an aversion to going backwards into trees and have no confidence in these Toyo boots in the damp/cold. I think I'm maybe heading into bends a bit quick, braking hard, throwing the balance out so tend to tiptoe round. Think I'll try and go in a bit slower and progressively wind in the power. Doesn't help that the standard lights in the dark are as much use as my cheap torch even with Blue Vision bulbs.
I see you too are 'getting' rid. What have you planned next?
DJ140, no wind up. I am quite happy to have a good blast when I feel it is safe for me and others to do so. You must be a driving god then
.. I'm only commenting on how my scoob feels at the mo and a few others on this thread seem to agree.Lets see how tonight's trip home is.
Doofus.
16 January 2004, 05:10 PM
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Doofus.
U'll get a range of replies here.
I'm currently scoobyless by choice even though I've had a large payrise.Decided no point having it for commuting (stuck in traffic etc,I was still at the pumps a lot, expensive insurance etc)
So I commuted in an old wreck and used scoob at w/e
Problem was seemed even less point paying all the money then so sold it,(WRX02ppp)
I still miss it but I'm now well on the way to paying of the mortgage and that really feels great.
My advice is sell it if you want to save money for something specific otherwise keep it or trade up.
Finally as above for gods sake dont let dealer do brakes etc.
change pads etc yourself it's SO easy. Buy parts from elsewhere eg Alyn in Durham (or similar place)
Get quotes for insurance with high XS and initially for 8K miles then, later tell em u need to extend it(oddly it often works out cheaper!)
If u do sell, like me u'll still read this site for nostalgia!
Good Luck
U'll get a range of replies here.
I'm currently scoobyless by choice even though I've had a large payrise.Decided no point having it for commuting (stuck in traffic etc,I was still at the pumps a lot, expensive insurance etc)
So I commuted in an old wreck and used scoob at w/e
Problem was seemed even less point paying all the money then so sold it,(WRX02ppp)
I still miss it but I'm now well on the way to paying of the mortgage and that really feels great.
My advice is sell it if you want to save money for something specific otherwise keep it or trade up.
Finally as above for gods sake dont let dealer do brakes etc.
change pads etc yourself it's SO easy. Buy parts from elsewhere eg Alyn in Durham (or similar place)
Get quotes for insurance with high XS and initially for 8K miles then, later tell em u need to extend it(oddly it often works out cheaper!)
If u do sell, like me u'll still read this site for nostalgia!
Good Luck
16 January 2004, 06:02 PM
#16
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It’s an odd thing to describe "performance" its not just about point to point speed... You have to realise several things that aren’t immediately obvious...
These are: When moving on any road above 40 and let’s say you have a very twisty bit of road for two miles. .i.e. country lane!
Physics act on fast cars and slower cars the same way, the differences between a fast road car and something like a Mundane-o! are marginal. This isn’t as daft as it sounds. In the short bits between the bends the fast car can take advantage of the difference in in-gear times, these times aren’t always as large as you would think...
For example say you had a good driver in an average motor; down a 200m straight bit & let’s say your car is very quick. In the 200m you gained 20mph on him… 70-to your 90mph… This in most cases is very optimistic…! Before breaking you would have gained only a two second advantage!
Considering you would have to break sooner the advantage is only around 1.5 seconds…
Then around the corners, physics, tyres and suspension setup account for the possible advantages on the road… given a good driver in both cars you could possible get around the corner maybe a full second quicker, again maybe optimistc!
In all the differences aren’t huge…
Even around the Top Gear track, the differences aren’t enormous, the Scoob Sti was around 3 seconds slower than the Mercialago… this is a 550bhp car with huge grip!
I was following a Renault Cleo 172 the other day @ 60mph and he floored it passed a car, I followed flat out but was not gaining super quickly!
I’ve done this next to a big bike @ 90mph and he didn’t leave me for dead…
You see you have to take in the whole experience of having a performance car in consideration, the way it feels and handles is what you pay for and most people pay good $$ for it because they enjoy it.
In all honesty I used to drive an Astra Van, but have been all over drivers of much quicker cars who where really trying down twisty country roads, this difference is never as great as you think…
Dazza
These are: When moving on any road above 40 and let’s say you have a very twisty bit of road for two miles. .i.e. country lane!
Physics act on fast cars and slower cars the same way, the differences between a fast road car and something like a Mundane-o! are marginal. This isn’t as daft as it sounds. In the short bits between the bends the fast car can take advantage of the difference in in-gear times, these times aren’t always as large as you would think...
For example say you had a good driver in an average motor; down a 200m straight bit & let’s say your car is very quick. In the 200m you gained 20mph on him… 70-to your 90mph… This in most cases is very optimistic…! Before breaking you would have gained only a two second advantage!
Considering you would have to break sooner the advantage is only around 1.5 seconds…
Then around the corners, physics, tyres and suspension setup account for the possible advantages on the road… given a good driver in both cars you could possible get around the corner maybe a full second quicker, again maybe optimistc!
In all the differences aren’t huge…
Even around the Top Gear track, the differences aren’t enormous, the Scoob Sti was around 3 seconds slower than the Mercialago… this is a 550bhp car with huge grip!
I was following a Renault Cleo 172 the other day @ 60mph and he floored it passed a car, I followed flat out but was not gaining super quickly!
I’ve done this next to a big bike @ 90mph and he didn’t leave me for dead…
You see you have to take in the whole experience of having a performance car in consideration, the way it feels and handles is what you pay for and most people pay good $$ for it because they enjoy it.
In all honesty I used to drive an Astra Van, but have been all over drivers of much quicker cars who where really trying down twisty country roads, this difference is never as great as you think…
Dazza
16 January 2004, 07:55 PM
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Hello Doofus, I know the feeling. I mostly drive (when driving through choice or for fun) on single carriageway "A" Class roads. When driving sensibly, I find that there is not a lot of distance between me and the guy behind except on the straights where the HP, not the turbo, is quicker. The next time you have doubt about your car's abilities, do a nice twisty road when there's no-one about(eg.A85:A819)in the dark and wet, then re-visualise in a FWD, N/A. Now check your fuel level!
When it boils down to it, you will always pay a premium when owning an Impreza, but there are very few cars in this price range which share the same kudos. How many 3 series TDi's / A4 owners do you know who are stopped regularly to enquire about their cars by Joe Public?
Me? I love and hate my car. I love its looks and performance and I also hate it for both reasons. At the end of the day, I will scrimp and scrape, defend its name, denigrate and defend it to friends but I fully intend to keep going.
PS. If you're selling yours, I'll buy it!
When it boils down to it, you will always pay a premium when owning an Impreza, but there are very few cars in this price range which share the same kudos. How many 3 series TDi's / A4 owners do you know who are stopped regularly to enquire about their cars by Joe Public?
Me? I love and hate my car. I love its looks and performance and I also hate it for both reasons. At the end of the day, I will scrimp and scrape, defend its name, denigrate and defend it to friends but I fully intend to keep going.
PS. If you're selling yours, I'll buy it!
16 January 2004, 08:14 PM
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Doofus,
Don't buy a BMW if maintenance costs worry you, I should know a little because I fix them for a living, If you were going to get a 318 get a push bike instead, you will have more fun and yes the 330d is a fine car but it will eat tyres and brakes and keep you has much out of pocket hasthe scoob would. Why not chop it in for a new one with longer service intervals ?
Don't buy a BMW if maintenance costs worry you, I should know a little because I fix them for a living, If you were going to get a 318 get a push bike instead, you will have more fun and yes the 330d is a fine car but it will eat tyres and brakes and keep you has much out of pocket hasthe scoob would. Why not chop it in for a new one with longer service intervals ?
16 January 2004, 08:28 PM
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peter, i no the A819 and what a road that is except those damn lights, if they catch u that is, my x-RS used to batter up & down it everyday & soon my new sti will be doing the same, as for the guy with the problem scoobie keep it m8, as a guy from an irish dealership said on wednesday "its what dreams are made of" !!
[Edited by sugar04 - 1/16/2004 8:29:29 PM]
[Edited by sugar04 - 1/16/2004 8:29:29 PM]
16 January 2004, 08:52 PM
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Doofus
I agree - we all need a change from Subaru now and again.
(6 times owner)
I also owned a 2.5 TDi V6 Quattro A4 from new for 45k. Chipped it to 185bhp and couldn't sensibly fault it. On saying that, the 225bhp Octavia 4x4 I have now is a lot more fun to drive but as well built. This replaced a car similar to yours. Do I miss the Impreza ? NO - a change is good now and again.
[Edited by Flat 4x4 - 1/16/2004 8:54:20 PM]
I agree - we all need a change from Subaru now and again.
(6 times owner)
I also owned a 2.5 TDi V6 Quattro A4 from new for 45k. Chipped it to 185bhp and couldn't sensibly fault it. On saying that, the 225bhp Octavia 4x4 I have now is a lot more fun to drive but as well built. This replaced a car similar to yours. Do I miss the Impreza ? NO - a change is good now and again.
[Edited by Flat 4x4 - 1/16/2004 8:54:20 PM]
16 January 2004, 09:07 PM
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At the risk of hi-jacking the thread 'cos Doofus has gone for a Scooby-Pint :
Sugar '04 :What lights? See you up there!
Maybee I speak from the sticks but Scoobs are still a bit of a head and an ear turner where I live.
Enough said.
Sugar '04 :What lights? See you up there!
Maybee I speak from the sticks but Scoobs are still a bit of a head and an ear turner where I live.
Enough said.
17 January 2004, 03:47 PM
#23
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I have an aversion to going backwards into trees and have no confidence in these Toyo boots in the damp/cold. I think I'm maybe heading into bends a bit quick, braking hard, throwing the balance out so tend to tiptoe round
17 January 2004, 04:30 PM
#24
There really is no substitute for good training (imho!) I have previously owned an integrale. I thought I drove quite quick! ha
Until I was taken out in car driven by someone (John Whalley) who really can drive. It was an eye opener. I did one of his Integrale driving courses and it helped loads.
Find someone who rally (handy pun!) knows their stuff, not just a mate who thinks he does! and you could have a really pleasant surprise as well as great fun in the process.
Having done a few courses I'm still keen to do more, I think there is always more to learn, no matter what your ability. I'm sure it would give you more confidence, speed and make you safer as well!
Cheers
Wad
Until I was taken out in car driven by someone (John Whalley) who really can drive. It was an eye opener. I did one of his Integrale driving courses and it helped loads.
Find someone who rally (handy pun!) knows their stuff, not just a mate who thinks he does! and you could have a really pleasant surprise as well as great fun in the process.
Having done a few courses I'm still keen to do more, I think there is always more to learn, no matter what your ability. I'm sure it would give you more confidence, speed and make you safer as well!
Cheers
Wad
19 January 2004, 08:40 AM
#25
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Cheers lads,
Yep I was away for a Scooby pint
Glad to see some sensible replies, as in .. 'the difference isn't as big as you'd expect' .. rather than 'oh come on, the scoob is the fastest thing this side of a 911 Turbo on wet and twisty roads'.
The drive back home was fine, bogged down by a couple of 'I'm going to drive at 20 on this road and in the middle' BMW's, still too wet/icy/dark to have a good blast.
I think I need to get my brakes done (I think it's this that makes me enter corners too quick as I don't seem to have much initial bite) and stick the Dawes back on for some more mid range oooomph.
Did some financial calcs at the weekend and figured there wouldn't be much difference outlay (say in 3 yrs) either for a) buy a nice yr old 320D b) buy a 1 yr service interval bug-eye and get it PPP'd (Ecutek style) .. sure the bug-eye will cost more to run but the Beemer costs more to buy.
Wait 6 months and see how I feel I suppose.
Doofus.
Yep I was away for a Scooby pint
Glad to see some sensible replies, as in .. 'the difference isn't as big as you'd expect' .. rather than 'oh come on, the scoob is the fastest thing this side of a 911 Turbo on wet and twisty roads'.
The drive back home was fine, bogged down by a couple of 'I'm going to drive at 20 on this road and in the middle' BMW's, still too wet/icy/dark to have a good blast.
I think I need to get my brakes done (I think it's this that makes me enter corners too quick as I don't seem to have much initial bite) and stick the Dawes back on for some more mid range oooomph.
Did some financial calcs at the weekend and figured there wouldn't be much difference outlay (say in 3 yrs) either for a) buy a nice yr old 320D b) buy a 1 yr service interval bug-eye and get it PPP'd (Ecutek style) .. sure the bug-eye will cost more to run but the Beemer costs more to buy.
Wait 6 months and see how I feel I suppose.
Doofus.
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